Atama BJJ >> Ari's blue belt
| 6/30/09 5:41 AM | |
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EddieBravo
Edited: 06/30/09 6:19 AM Member Since: 5/9/02 Posts: 4724 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, www.thetwister.tv |
When Ari contacted me about affiliation I didn't have any affiliates yet, he and Brandon ended up being my first 2. I admit, I didn't have any idea how I would run this satellite program at first.
I knew that Jorge Gurgel had 12 schools and I remember thinking I should ask him how he manages it all. How am I gonna rank these affiliates and their students if they are hundreds of miles away? Online? Do I make them fly out to LA to rank them? Through videos? Before I go any further with the affiliation process, I have to explain exactly how my ranking system works. Back when I first opened my school I had a lot of decisions to make about how I was gonna rank people in my no-gi system. Do I honor traditional bjj belts? Since my style has no collar chokes and no sleeve and jacket pulling sweeps how will my ranking be accepted in bjj? Do I even really care? So many questions I needed answers to. A 10th planet black belt can have zero knowledge of gi submissions/passes/sweeps, so how the hell can he be accepted as a traditional bjj black belt? What do I do if a traditional bjj black belt who doesn't know the rubber guard, the twister variations, and the lockdown half guard wants to join my affiliation? There is no way I can have a 10thpjj black belt who doesn't have all that mastered, so how do I do this? How can a pure no-gi style that is based on the rubber guard, the twister and the lockdown with absolutely no collar and sleeve techniques be ranked in the same way as a style that is primarily based in collar and sleeve techniques with no rubber guard, lockdown and twister? It started to become clear to me that the 10thpjj style was it's own separate system that would eventually totally separate from it's base style. But even though my style was moving further and further away from bjj I decided to keep the ranking colors and system the same instead of changing color order or adding colors, afterall my style is rooted in traditional bjj, so why not keep the belt system as certificates of rank? I also decided to honor all belt rankings from bjj at face value except black. If you came into my system a blue belt you would be a blue in my system, if you came in a purple you would be a purple in my system too. But if you came in a black belt, I would consider you a brown in 10thpjj. You would get your black once you mastered the rubber guard, the twister and the lockdwon series. I knew that things would probably need some serious tweaking as the association grew but I wasn't sure exactly how it was all gonna unfold. I never started my own jiu jitsu federation before, it was beginning to get a little overwhelming. Since I was accepting traditional bjj ranking into my system how would I accept the other submission arts like submission wrestling, sambo, japanese jiu jitsu, judo? As far as ranking was concerned, I decided to only honor bjj rankings at face value upon entering the system but I would also factor in a persons prior non bjj submission experience, like sambo, judo, JJJ, if they were black belts and had incorporated the 10thpjj system into their arsenal as well. For example, when Einstein joined 10thplanet he was already a blue, so he was automatically a blue in 10thp, no background check, no handing him a blue belt, no pictures of me handing him a blue, nothing, he was just a blue. I believed him that he was a blue and I never did any investigating. When Avi came in as a purple, there was no promotion festival for him, he just remained a purple in the 10thp system, again with no background check. Remember, I was starting a jiu jitsu empire all by myself, I barley could keep up with everything and had no time to check everyone's lineage, I just had faith in them. When Shigeki joined 10thp he was also already a purple, so that meant he was already a purple in my system, no special belt promotion ceremony, no nothing, no checking of his lineage, he was automatically a 10thp purple. I just trusted him. When Alder joined 10thp he was already a blue, so he was automatically a 10thp blue, no getting on the internet to check if his blue was legit, no special announcement, no nothing, he was just a 10thp blue. Dustin came in as a blue, he remained blue, same with Blalock, Denny, Brent and so on. Vinny Magalhaes and George Sotiropolis are both bjj black belts so that means they are learning the 10thp system as brown belts. I didn't give them a brown belt party, they are just 10thp brown belts. Bottom line, no matter how much this blue belt knows or how much this purple belt doesn't know, in the end, when it's all said and done, no one is a 10thp black belt unless he has a great all round game, like a great mount, rnc, passing, darce, etc but especially the rubber guard, twister and lockdown. So back to Ari. When he initially contacted me, he gave me the rundown on his grappling experience including his black belt in Japanese jiu jitsu. He told me that his JJJ was more ground based than the other JJJ styles and he also said that he had been fusing the 10thpjj system into his system for a while. Again, no background checks of lineage, I just trusted him. He said he was committed to mastering the 10th planet style and wanted to become an affiliate so I booked him for a seminar a few months later. Since I was only honoring bjj belts at face value and not JJJ belts, he wasn't gonna enter the 10thp system as a brown like Vinny and George. But since he did incorporate the 10thp system into his JJJ style I decided after watching his online videos that he would automatically enter the system as a blue. No belt ceremony, no picture of me handing him a blue belt, no nothing, he was just a 10thp blue. A few months later when I got to Victoria and did the seminar I was super impressed with his 10th planet knowledge. It was obvious that he was studying hard for the affiliation, he had all my books memorized and was like a walking 10th planet encyclopedia, and he had a natural ability for teaching. He has 2 awesome students, Tristan Connelly and Red who are doing very well in Canadian tournaments. Red's 10thp technique is quite amazing, especially his rubber guard. He rarely made mistakes during the entire 4 hour seminar. Ari did such an amazing job with him and Tristan that I decided to give him a 10thp purple.
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| 6/30/09 5:41 AM | |
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EddieBravo
Edited: 06/30/09 6:24 AM Member Since: 5/9/02 Posts: 4725 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, www.thetwister.tv |
Ari doesn't have a strong competitive fire and still has many holes in his game, but when I roll with him, I have lots of trouble pulling off any rubber guard. He has very strong posture and is great at pulling out of oma plata attempts. His limp arms are top notch. I usually have to resort to my half guard game with him. Watch the videos of us rolling. Although he's a long way away from his black belt he's alot better than all the Ari haters think. It's amazing how all the Ari haters are judging his skills by what they see in his videos yet these are the same people that think it's impossible to truly rank someone online by watching videos. At my academy sometimes promotions are given to people that may not have the physical and mental attributes of champions but they have vast 10th planet jiu jitsu knowledge and/or are excellent teachers. Although Ari probably won't ever be a fierce competition beast, he does have the 10thp system down and is a great teacher too. That's why I gave him his 10thp purple. We had 2 black belts back in the day that fit this description. They were brazilian jiu jitsu yodas who had a real talent for conveying jiu jitsu theories and strategies but it was not uncommon for them to get tapped by purples. But no one ever questioned the legitimacy of their black belts because we all knew they had true black belt wisdom. Their lack of competitive firepower was never held against them. Any time a purple would brag about tapping black belts we all knew what blacks they were braggin about submitting. Again it was just something we all accepted, some people are not great competitors, some people will always buckle under pressure, some people will never have a ferocious attitude while rolling and competing. But if they can soak up massive jiu jitsu information and pass it along with on-point teaching they would get promoted anyways. They had black belt brains but were unlucky in the genetics department. I learned alot from them and so did most who were taught by them. Ari is not a 10thp black belt or even a brown belt, he is just a 10th Planet purple with a lot still left to learn.
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| 6/30/09 5:48 AM | |
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bulletmagnet
Member Since: 4/22/09 Posts: 86 |
1st
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| 6/30/09 5:53 AM | |
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jujubre
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 25408 |
it beguins!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 6/30/09 6:15 AM | |
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JJK
Member Since: 9/25/07 Posts: 512 |
I must admit that's a pretty fair descriptin by Eddie! I am a huge fan of his and his honesty is refreshing. He makes some valid points and altough I am not a fan of Ari's, I'm not a hater either! I guess it's a learning curve and we can only see how it goes regardless if we agree or not everyone has the right to their own opinion!
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| 6/30/09 6:18 AM | |
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cdog1955
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 970 |
This whole thing is getting tired...you don't need to explain yourself, your school, do with it what you want and let the mat take care of the explanations. In the end, the mat never lies.
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| 6/30/09 6:20 AM | |
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jujubre
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 25411 |
actually I don't judge him on his purple belt...I have seen some other sucky purple....but they did not post all over the internet video of them showing technique...and they were not doing seminars all over the country. Maybe Eddie should sign agreements with his affiliates that allow them to post a vid and do seminar only when they reach brown belt level...just a thought as it is none of my Business.
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| 6/30/09 6:28 AM | |
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pigpen
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 16762 |
thanks for coming on and saying all that, eddie before I say this, I'll say I love the tenth planet style, I have your book, eddie. and I think you're the shit. I understand what you're saying about those blackbelts getting tapped by purples, but I don't think that is the point if those blackbelts did an instructional, would they be leaving out things, basic things, or showing things completely wrong? do you think ari's basic mistakes in his instructionals represents what a 10th planet purple is?(have you seen the countless mistakes, pointed out by numerous blackbelts on here, on his instructionals?) would the purples at your school be making those basic mistakes(and if they did, all the time, would you want them putting out an instructional)? I know ari does a lot in the gi, but he still says, "I'm a 10th planet purple" and I think that makes 10th planet look bad I know we all make mistakes, but it gets almost dangerous when you're showing them in a self defense instructional video...plus it waters down what it is to begin with and makes it mcdojo-ish(those that learn wrongly from the vids will show someone else, they'll show someone else etc...ari has like 25,000 subscribers that are watching these wrong techniques) oh, and I understand perhaps someone from a different art(sambo or whatever) won't have all the subtleties of a bjj bb...but I don't think they would pretend to in an instructional. well, it's early and I'm rambling...I'm sure this thread will get at least 500 hits, so I'll leave it to someone else btw, I love the 10th planet style, I have your book, and I think you're the shit, eddie
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| 6/30/09 6:32 AM | |
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jujubre
Edited: 06/30/09 6:33 AM Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 25413 |
and also, apparently he is a black belt in JJJ (why not)....but he put on a BJJ red GI and his JJJ black belt to show his video. if he is not trying to mislead people to think that he is a bjj blackbelt, it sure look that way. maybe he should put a white traditional Judo GI with his black belt or if he want to keep his red BJJ Gi, put a purple belt....
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| 6/30/09 8:03 AM | |
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Cuex
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 428 |
Only thing I have against Ari is the whole "BJJ Gi/JJJ BlackBelt" thing. At the very least it's dishonest. I don't really have an issue with all the instructional videos he puts out. Youtube is a sea of bad grappling videos - only reason he gets more heat than others is due to the noob following of submissions101. I also don't care for his lisp.
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| 6/30/09 8:28 AM | |
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Darcebrabo
Member Since: 4/6/09 Posts: 223 |
EddieBravo - So back to Ari. When he initially contacted me, he gave me the rundown on his grappling experience including his black belt in Japanese jiu jitsu. He told me that his JJJ was more ground based than the other JJJ styles and he also said that he had been fusing the 10thpjj system into his system for a while. Again, no background checks of lineage, I just trusted him. Eddie, I'm not sure how familiar you are with some of my discoveries regarding Ari Bolden on Sherdog (im sure you may not be aware of any of it), but Ari Bolden is also a fraud. He could not prove *ANY* lineage (very similar to Brandon Quick), to his JJJ black belt. I am also VERY well versed in Japanese Jiu Jitsu, and Ari would not disclose exactly what faction of Japanese Jiu Jitsu that he did that involved Ne Waza (in short, the japanese term for ground techniques). He provided NO lineage WHATSOEVER to show the authenticity of the black belt that he carried. When asked where did his training come from that taught him the ground techniques, his reply was "I attended a few seminars". His only experience of actual formal instruction of being taught BJJ was those few seminars that he attended. Another thing that points to fraud is that Ari claimed to teach BJJ YEARS prior to him starting up his Youtube channel in 2006. Which basically would mean that he was teaching BJJ before you even received your black belt. Eddie, I understand that all you care about is peoples knowledge of the system in order to be promoted, but how far are you willing to go to water down and degrade the integrity of the belt ranking system during your process of running your affiliates? Have you ever asked the purples at your academy who shed blood, sweat, and tears for their promotions, and Ari was able to do it all over the internet? I dont think that that is fair to those who actually train with you and work hard, and i'm sure if you sat them down and had a heart to heart, they would feel the same way. Out of all of your top guys that i've spoken to in regards to Ari, they all say the same thing: "He's a super nice guy". Then when asked about their rolling experience with him, they say: "I've never rolled with him before, but he's a super nice guy" So how is Ari amongst the purples and he's never even really rolled with anyone at your academy???
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| 6/30/09 8:31 AM | |
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jujubre
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 25415 |
what is strange is that there are probably numerous and muliple legit BJJ black belt and brown belt that would love to represent Eddie Bravo style of BJJ. and the two representant Eddie Bravo found....sucks....
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| 6/30/09 8:38 AM | |
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CJJScout
Member Since: 4/20/04 Posts: 4306 |
I'm not an Eddie fan, but not really a hater either. I respect Eddie for coming on here and vetting these things. At the end of the day, he is ironing out his system and trying to protect the integrity of it. Some things will slip through the cracks and over time he will probably work out the kinks. Someone said on another thread that when the UG goes on these witch hunts, they are hurting the livelihood of folks and that is a real world deal. I understand wanting to root out frauds, but these folks have mouths to feed. That is no laughing matter. I reckon it is up to each of us to check the legitimacy of our instructors, why bother with checking the how legit an instructor is that you don't train with and is thousands of miles away?
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| 6/30/09 9:00 AM | |
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Darcebrabo
Member Since: 4/6/09 Posts: 224 |
Eddie, I found the thread from back in the day, here you go: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-5069.html Ari Bolden 2/26/2004 - So Eddie, this man has been TEACHING BJJ since 2004! However in this thread here: My questions to Ari Bolden: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/21962901-post77.html His attempt to answer my questions: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/21965256-post97.html Now you'll see when I asked about his training experience, he said: My experience of techniques comes from the regualr intruction I had in JJJ along with seminars I've attended along with grapplers that have shared knowledge with me. My JJJ had a stong ne waza component to it. But he's been teaching BJJ since 2004?!? Eddie, come on man, you have to justify this.
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| 6/30/09 9:06 AM | |
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jtwalker
Member Since: 10/18/07 Posts: 71 |
I guess it really doesn't matter to the public, we/they are not paying ari to teach them nor is he affiliate/ranked by our instructors. The real question is this; Would ari, just by books and videos... be able to perform and understand "your" jiu jitsu as well as a purple that has taken your classes every for years? Let's not forget, that the purple in your school has loyally supported your school with tuition and being a good memeber of the family. Are you saying that Ari is equal to him?
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| 6/30/09 9:10 AM | |
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Judo Scott
Member Since: 1/12/09 Posts: 906 |
Good enough for me thanks for addressing it Eddie.
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| 6/30/09 9:19 AM | |
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JoelN
Member Since: 3/15/02 Posts: 1272 |
Darcebrabo- Clearly you didn't read Eddie's posts. Eddie said that HE has rolled with Ari and that should be good enough. Also, just because he is wearing a gi and a black belt in a video doesn't mean he is trying to say that he IS a BJJ BB, just that he is a BB is some style that has grappling. Granted, I have not watched a lot of his videos so I do not know if he makes any claims of being a BB in BJJ. I have a 3rd degree BB in JJJ. I no longer wear a gi, but if I did and was teaching grappling/submissions when you came in, would you just assume that I am a BJJ BB?
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| 6/30/09 9:22 AM | |
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jujubre
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 25416 |
JoelN - yes if you have a bjj gi....youtube the video
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| 6/30/09 9:58 AM | |
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vegard
Edited: 06/30/09 10:01 AM Member Since: 4/24/07 Posts: 5124 |
" Although Ari probably won't ever be a fierce competition beast, he does have the 10thp system down and is a great teacher too." Eddie, I would love for you to comment on the half guard video that was taken down. I asked a long time ago and you said nothing but the video was taken down immediately. Ari showed how to pass the half guard by hugging around the head instead of getting an underhook, thus opening up himself to have his back taken. To me, this lack of technique and knowledge does not reflect well on a purple shirt. I learned this technique ages ago when I was a new blue belt -- from mostly watching your twister dvd. I even travelled to the bomb squad to train with you because of your half guard. I don't see how someone competent in your system could miss this point. There also have been some serious claims about Ari faking most all of his martial arts experience. From Shen: "Again, Ari was not only busted for not having rank in Daito Ryu (Aiki Jujitsu) or any Classical Jiu Jitsu or Aiki Jujitsu style... He ADMITTED, when pressed, that he only "learned some Aiki Jujitsu informally when he studied Aikido" Somehow that became a "BB in Aiki Jujitsu", and then became his OWN style of Aiki Jiujitsu. That's like a BJJ guy learning some leg locks and then claiming to be a Black Belt in Sambo, then starting his own style of Sambo. I mean... WTF?!?!? In short, no matter what words Ari throws around remember, he has formal training & rank in ONE and just ONE Traditional Martial Art: Aikido. Period. NO ONE has ever given Ari rank in ANY style of Classical JJJ, Goshin Jutsu, Aiki Jujitsu or anything else."
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| 6/30/09 10:00 AM | |
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12
Member Since: 9/12/04 Posts: 5442 |
JoelN -Darcebrabo- how did your 3rd degree jjj bb hold up when you went no gi. is it equal?
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| 6/30/09 10:07 AM | |
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Mesa
Member Since: 4/27/09 Posts: 10 |
oh thank god - no more boring tuesday at work!
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| 6/30/09 10:10 AM | |
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whaledog
Edited: 06/30/09 10:35 AM Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 6130 |
EddieBravo -It's not amazing at all. It may be very difficult to accuaratley judge how good someone is by wathcing him roll in a video, but it is damn easy to spot someone making obvious mistakes when teaching basic techniques. That beng the said, I wish you the best. I'd like nothing better than for rubber guard to help make submissions a bigger part of mma, and I give you props for innovating. It is up to you to run your association how you'd like. But if you let people build reputations off your name, be prepared for blow-back when it turns out they aren't up to snuff.
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| 6/30/09 10:15 AM | |
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Darcebrabo
Member Since: 4/6/09 Posts: 225 |
JoelN -Darcebrabo- Yea, and Eddie rolled with Brandon Quick as well, and look how that turned out. Your point?
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| 6/30/09 10:19 AM | |
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Rock n Raleigh Suicide
Member Since: 11/13/08 Posts: 3401 |
wow....my threads!
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| 6/30/09 10:21 AM | |
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JoelN
Member Since: 3/15/02 Posts: 1273 |
jujubre -ok, what is the difference between a gi and a BJJ gi? patches?JoelN -
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