UnderGround Forums Rulon Gardner's upset over Aleksandr Karelin

3/19/18 3:10 PM
2/5/06
Posts: 9939

Was it as utterly unbelievable and surprising as I remember it? Was it bigger than Buster Douglas over Tyson?

Here are some facts about Karelin before Gardner upset him:

- Was undefeated in international competition for 13 yrs AND HAD NOT GIVEN UP A POINT in 6 yrs.

- Had won gold the previous 3 Olympics.

- He was so dominant I specifically remember in the semis in one of the Olympics, his semifinal opponent let Karelin pin him on purpose because he knew he couldn't beat him and this would conserve his energy for the bronze medal match (which he won). In other words, the third or so best Greco-Roman wrestler on the planet knew he had no chance against Karelin and intentionally gave up.

 

3/19/18 3:21 PM
2/16/04
Posts: 14452
I may be remembering it wrong, but wasn't it a stalemate until Gardner went for it? Tried to suplex Gardner but Gardner was too fat. Couldn't quite throw tubby. Gardner falls on Karelin and scores a point?
3/19/18 3:32 PM
9/10/13
Posts: 863

Wasn’t it from a grip break or something? Definitely impressive to win a gold medal, but not the same as something like Buster Douglas. 

3/19/18 3:32 PM
8/14/02
Posts: 50668
scourge - I may be remembering it wrong, but wasn't it a stalemate until Gardner went for it? Tried to suplex Gardner but Gardner was too fat. Couldn't quite throw tubby. Gardner falls on Karelin and scores a point?

Karelin was so dominant that they implemented an anti-Karelin rule where, if a wrestler separates their own hands to adjust, the opponent gets a point.  

Once Gardner got the point through that technicality, he turtled and played defensive to not lose

3/19/18 3:51 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 22108
Remember his MMA fight in Pride FC? He won by jabs.
3/19/18 5:00 PM
1/12/05
Posts: 60502
Buster KTFO Tyson. Karelin adjusted his grip and lost. Still a massive win for Gardner, but not Tyson-Douglas level.
3/19/18 5:01 PM
11/23/02
Posts: 11404
It was a newly implemented grip break rul which basically everyone didnt know about. Then he was out of gas trying to lift up 300 lb rulon who glued himself to the mat. hardly a victory. But technically it was.
3/19/18 5:19 PM
2/16/04
Posts: 14455
Thanks for clearing it up. I just remember thinking Rulon won by being fat.
3/19/18 5:27 PM
8/14/02
Posts: 50669
Bobby Lupo - Buster KTFO Tyson. Karelin adjusted his grip and lost. Still a massive win for Gardner, but not Tyson-Douglas level.

Tyson TKO'd Buster earlier in the fight.  Fight should've been long over

3/19/18 5:49 PM
1/20/10
Posts: 1866

It was an amazing upset and brought attention to a sport that desperately needed it.  

3/19/18 5:52 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 2519
Mencken - 
scourge - I may be remembering it wrong, but wasn't it a stalemate until Gardner went for it? Tried to suplex Gardner but Gardner was too fat. Couldn't quite throw tubby. Gardner falls on Karelin and scores a point?

Karelin was so dominant that they implemented an anti-Karelin rule where, if a wrestler separates their own hands to adjust, the opponent gets a point.  

Once Gardner got the point through that technicality, he turtled and played defensive to not lose


Nailed it.
3/19/18 7:03 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 9339

I'm an American wrestler. I watched the match when it aired. I was embarrassed. A win is a win but it was kinda shameful tbh. Gardner got the penalty point and stalled to win. 

3/19/18 7:08 PM
3/4/12
Posts: 665

STEROIDS

3/19/18 11:57 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 20889
MuchRespec' - 

I'm an American wrestler. I watched the match when it aired. I was embarrassed. A win is a win but it was kinda shameful tbh. Gardner got the penalty point and stalled to win. 


I view it the same. The rule set that was implemented was shamefully inappropriate. It led go that abortion of an Olympic final. And the greatest wrestler of all time lost on an absolutely meaningless technique which showed no advantage or superiority of any fashion by Gardner, other than being too fat for Karelin to hold his grip around him.

Shameful is exactly how I remember it.
3/20/18 12:05 AM
2/5/06
Posts: 9941
SinCityHustler - 
MuchRespec' - 

I'm an American wrestler. I watched the match when it aired. I was embarrassed. A win is a win but it was kinda shameful tbh. Gardner got the penalty point and stalled to win. 


I view it the same. The rule set that was implemented was shamefully inappropriate. It led go that abortion of an Olympic final. And the greatest wrestler of all time lost on an absolutely meaningless technique which showed no advantage or superiority of any fashion by Gardner, other than being too fat for Karelin to hold his grip around him.

Shameful is exactly how I remember it.

If Karelin would have just let go altogether and not attempted to readjust his hands while around Gardner, would he not have given up a point?

3/20/18 12:32 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 20890
Point to the person who does not lose the grip.
3/20/18 12:37 AM
3/27/03
Posts: 36751
solidsnake - Remember his MMA fight in Pride FC? He won by jabs.

Very interesting fight... big dude for all intents and purposes immune to takedowns just throwing a ton of hard punches up the middle... and his strategy worked 

3/20/18 12:39 AM
3/27/03
Posts: 36752

Also this might be naive but was rulon juicing like karelin?

Edited: 3/20/18 12:58 AM
5/28/09
Posts: 97

Its a legendary win. But, I would honestly say the Helen Maroulis victory over Saori Yoshida is probably a greater victory. 

Saori Yoshida was the 3x defending Olympic Gold Medalist, 13x world champion from 2002-2015.

So, the stats are very comparable to that of Karelin, and possibly proves Yoshida to be more dominant. 

Maroulis came out and dominated that match. It was a far more impressive win than Gardner's.

3/20/18 10:10 AM
3/27/03
Posts: 36755

All it takes to beat karelin is being a fatass?  

3/20/18 10:13 AM
3/5/12
Posts: 756
Imagine if the UFC signed Ben Askren and he fought khabib they could easily market this as the modern day Karelin VS Gardner
3/20/18 10:17 AM
9/13/11
Posts: 2055

Steven Bradbury type victory.

3/20/18 10:17 AM
7/7/12
Posts: 5008

wasnt a bigger upset than Leicester winning the Premiership

3/20/18 10:51 AM
8/14/02
Posts: 50673
cuttooth - 

wasnt a bigger upset than Leicester winning the Premiership


That was an unreal win....I'm still blown away by it.

Betting odds on Gardner to beat Karelin was apparently 2000:1.  Highest I saw for Leicester to win PL was 5000:1.  Just a fucked payout

3/20/18 11:27 AM
1/12/05
Posts: 60513
Mencken - 
cuttooth - 

wasnt a bigger upset than Leicester winning the Premiership


That was an unreal win....I'm still blown away by it.

Betting odds on Gardner to beat Karelin was apparently 2000:1.  Highest I saw for Leicester to win PL was 5000:1.  Just a fucked payout


Vegas didn't even offer odds for Tyson-Douglas. I think The Mirage gave 42-1 odds as a joke for a fun, low limit bet.

Leicester winning the league was the craziest thing I've ever seen as a sports fan...and it was no fluke, they did it over a full season.