Revgear League BJJGround Marcelo doesn't believe in Kimuras because...

7 days ago
11/20/15
Posts: 2629

... they are "strong man's" technique?

The Kimura from closed guard is a Torrance Combatives move for fuck sake... how is it only a "strong man's" technique?

Got this from a JRE podcast that had Eddie in it. Eddie seemed to agree but said he worked on stuff that works on lots of people, not just the biggest guys.

Anyone?

7 days ago
1/15/13
Posts: 610
PTSDSA -

... they are "strong man's" technique?

The Kimura from closed guard is a Torrance Combatives move for fuck sake... how is it only a "strong man's" technique?

Got this from a JRE podcast that had Eddie in it. Eddie seemed to agree but said he worked on stuff that works on lots of people, not just the biggest guys.

Anyone?

I agree that from closed guard its often just a guy being a lot stronger.
Edited: 7 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 10746
Not to be an asshole, but didn't Jacare (who seems to be less strong than the short and stocky Marcelo) tap Marcelo with a kimura from closed guard back in the day?
7 days ago
2/15/05
Posts: 1702
FatBuddha - Not to be an asshole, but didn't Jacare (who seems to be less strong than the short and stocky Marcelo) tap Marcelo with a kimura from closed guard back in the day?

You lost me on Jacare being less strong that anybody........
7 days ago
1/14/08
Posts: 5104
Perhaps he meant Jacare Calvalcante of Alliance, who is older and smaller, as opposed to Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza who is stronger than EVERYONE!



Chango
7 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 3923

I asked Marcelo about this a while back.

He views kimuras as too strengh dependent.  Marcelo wants his core moves to work on folks bigger than him.

 

7 days ago
10/23/09
Posts: 3186

I like the implicit assumption that the Gracie Combatives dorks can't possibly be wrong. 

7 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 44604
PTSDSA - 

... they are "strong man's" technique?

The Kimura from closed guard is a Torrance Combatives move for fuck sake... how is it only a "strong man's" technique?

Got this from a JRE podcast that had Eddie in it. Eddie seemed to agree but said he worked on stuff that works on lots of people, not just the biggest guys.

Anyone?


This may come as a shock, but people -- even bjj black belts --- can disagree.  And that's ok.

7 days ago
7/20/09
Posts: 5139
PTSDA, spend less time road raging and watching YouTube, and more time actually training.
7 days ago
10/14/06
Posts: 813
I find it difficult to finish a kimura on someone larger. However, I do use it as a form of control to transition to other positions. I don't know if Marcelo explored it as a form of positional control.
6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 4202

I'm sure in a pinch, Marcelo would use a kimura if the situation presented itself.

6 days ago
4/6/11
Posts: 879
Marcelo has figured out a pretty effective system. I was at his gym recently and someone asked him about something similar. He prefers chokes bc they're higher percentage essentially not bc other techniques are ineffective or inferior
6 days ago
10/15/06
Posts: 2473

I'm guessing Marcelo still uses the kimura grip to set up his chokes,arm locks,sit outs and sweeps but just doesn't try to finish the actual kimura.Makes sense but after watching Frank Mir take big Nogs arm apart You gotta train the kimura at least for the sweeps and for the fact you are safer from head strikes while you have the kimura grip locked 

6 days ago
10/15/06
Posts: 2474

 

6 days ago
10/23/09
Posts: 3187
Hargreaves -

I'm guessing Marcelo still uses the kimura grip to set up his chokes,arm locks,sit outs and sweeps but just doesn't try to finish the actual kimura.Makes sense but after watching Frank Mir take big Nogs arm apart You gotta train the kimura at least for the sweeps and for the fact you are safer from head strikes while you have the kimura grip locked 

I'm not sure he uses it much for anything. 

 

The kimura is one of my favourite control positions. It can be applied in so many different positions and being able to 'pin' someone's shoulder to a point in space is incredibly powerful. I use kimuras to counter singles/doubles, all types of half guard and to take the back from my own guard. 

6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 19069
Jeff Hunt -
FatBuddha - Not to be an asshole, but didn't Jacare (who seems to be less strong than the short and stocky Marcelo) tap Marcelo with a kimura from closed guard back in the day?

You lost me on Jacare being less strong that anybody........

Lol agree.   

Edited: 6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 29533

Well, if Marcelo were built differently, he might feel differently.

Obviously, different body types & attibutes make certain techniques more appealing for some and less so for others.

 

6 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 3927
shen -

Well, if Marcelo were built differently, he might feel differently.

Obviously, different body types & attibutes make certain techniques more appealing for some and less so for others.

 

agreed

Marcelo is an explosive popeye.  some moves fit him better than others 

6 days ago
12/18/03
Posts: 20974

Keep into consideration that a lot of what Marcelo "preaches" (for lack of a better word) is targeted towards competing against other world class grapplers (absolute divisions included).

He does certain attacks on only one side because - on his weaker side - those are not going to be good enough to beat a competitor of that caliber.

I think he is has the same thing in mind when talking about kimuras - he can probably tap 90% of the world's black belts using kimuras only, but chose not to focus on that move since - to him - it's not efficient enough in high level competition.

He is also the guy that uses mostly techniques that work with or without the gi, so he leaves A LOT of stuff out of his repertoire.

6 days ago
11/20/15
Posts: 2630
MarsMan -

Keep into consideration that a lot of what Marcelo "preaches" (for lack of a better word) is targeted towards competing against other world class grapplers (absolute divisions included).

He does certain attacks on only one side because - on his weaker side - those are not going to be good enough to beat a competitor of that caliber.

I think he is has the same thing in mind when talking about kimuras - he can probably tap 90% of the world's black belts using kimuras only, but chose not to focus on that move since - to him - it's not efficient enough in high level competition.

He is also the guy that uses mostly techniques that work with or without the gi, so he leaves A LOT of stuff out of his repertoire.

Thank you. It's always awesome to get a well explained black belt perspective.

6 days ago
11/20/15
Posts: 2631
Hargreaves -

 

Meh... those guys are all in his weight class. Weak sauce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joking... I'm fucking joking. 

6 days ago
11/20/15
Posts: 2632
Muffinho -

I like the implicit assumption that the Gracie Combatives dorks can't possibly be wrong. 

Yeah, Ryron and Rener are such losers, they know nothing about technique.

GTFO

6 days ago
11/20/15
Posts: 2633
shen -

Well, if Marcelo were built differently, he might feel differently.

Obviously, different body types & attibutes make certain techniques more appealing for some and less so for others.

 

Thank you Shen, makes sense.

6 days ago
1/13/06
Posts: 6258

Remember when that fat out of shape russian guy kimura'd randleman! argument invalid?

6 days ago
11/23/08
Posts: 650
FatBuddha - Not to be an asshole, but didn't Jacare (who seems to be less strong than the short and stocky Marcelo) tap Marcelo with a kimura from closed guard back in the day?

Pretty poor argument. I'm not strong and I don't like Kimuras. There is a guy at my gym who is really strong and if he gets the Kimura grip on you it's rare if you don't tap.