Revgear League BJJGround The Hazy Origins of BJJ.......

Edited: 3/21/12 10:55 PM
Posts: 4812
the following posts are a chronolgy of pro fighting in Rio in the late 20s and 1930s.

 Reading the "George Mehdi and Non-Gracie lineage BJJ" thread got to me surfing around on the Interwebs.

I think quite a few of you on here are aware of George Gracies fights. He had hundreds of Vale Tudo, Luta Livre, pro wrestling, Jiu-jitsu, wrestling and other matches. Around his time period, some other Japanese Jiu-jitsu guys arrived in Brazil (1920s) and opened competing schools to the Gracies.

Here are some snippets I found on the Polish wrestler Wladek Zbyszko and his arrival in Brazil and the Gracies. Much of the information I think has ben derived from the reseacrher Loddo who was supposed to writing a book on the hisotry of BJJ and Vale Tudo in Brazil.

Here are some snippets I found:

"As to the South American tour: Stanislaus and Wladek took a troupe of American pro wrestlers to South America in 1934. They set up their base at Luna Park in Buenos Aires, Argentina and held their first tournament on Jan. 6, 1934. Their troupe inlcuded Jack Conley, Einar Johannsen, Jack Russell, Renato Gardini, George Godfrey, Martin Zikoff, Bill Lyon (Leon?), LaVerne Baxter, Everett Kibbons, Tony Marconi, Al Perreira, Justiano Silva, Andres Castanos and Count Karl Nowina. Nowina seems to have really been their actual nephew, the son of one of their sisters. Both Stanislaus and Wladek wrestled on the tour, although Nowina and Silva proved to be big stars among the South Americans.
The troupe debuted in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil on May 12, 1934; billed as "Luta Americano". Several Brazilian pro wrestlers took part on the cards, including Dudu, Manoel Fernandez, Oscar Baptiste, and Ismael Haki. Roberto Ruhmann had been promoting professional Greco-Roman, jiu-jitsu, luta livre and capoeira matches in Brazil since about 1930. Stanislaus issued a challenge to Ruhmann and to the Gracie brothers at the start of their Brazilian tour. Ruhmann gladly took part but the Gracies were reluctant.

Eventually Helio Gracie faced Wladek in a jiu-jitsu rules contest held 7/28/1934 in Rio. They grappled to a draw.
(my take is that it was a legit contest, held under strict jiu-jitsu rules. Wladek overpowered and took down Helio, but could do nothing with him on the ground under the rules of the contest...but who Royce Gracie versus the bigger and more powerful Dan Severn in an early UFC). Wladek spoke highly of Helio after the contest and talked about bringing him to the US. Wladek later took on the maverick Gracie brother George on Oct. 6, 1934 in Rio in a submission wrestling match without gis and forced him to give up to an armbar.

George Gracie was the one Gracie who did take part in many professional wrestling matches over the years, as well as jiu-jitsu rules bouts, luta livre contests, and vale tudo fights. George was usually at odds with his brothers and there was even an attempt to hold a George versus Helio contest. George was willing, but oldest brother Carlos nixed Helio's participation. "

Here's what I found interesting:

A Japanese guy named Geo Omori comes to Brazil ion the 20s. A Jiu-jitsu guy:

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil-1930’s (a work in progress)

Research mainly in the daily newspaper Correio Da Manha

1928-Geo Omori, Japanese jiu-jitsu expert comes to Brazil.

9/1928-Geo Omori begins taking on all comers with Queirolo’s Circus in Sao Paulo.

1930-Geo Omori, the Gracie brothers, Roberto Ruhmann and Dudu are all active in the professional fight circuit in Sao Paulo.

1/5/1930-Sao Paulo
Carlos Gracie drew Geo Omori, jiu-jitsu.

1/19/1930-Sao Paulo
Carlos Gracie drew Geo Omori, jiu-jitsu…George Gracie vs. Johnnes Toom; jiu-jitsu vs. boxing contest.

1931-The Gracies and Omori have both relocated to Rio and have rival jiu-jitsu academies.

^^^ Right here, I found interesting. In the early 30s, there were other Japanese with "BJJ" academies already sprouting in brazil, alongside the Gracies. And there was a professional fight circuit that was not created by the Gracies.

It also seems that lutre livra fighters were also around in the 1920s fighting professionally, perhaps before BJJ was "born".

There are more snippets of the Gracie's contests, etc. but the above is just food for thought.
Edited: 3/21/12 10:51 PM
Posts: 4813
Here is the researched chronology, as done by historian Mark S. Hewitt 2010-2011
(Special thanks to Carlos Eduardo Loddo.) based on his research and old Brazilian newspapers:

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil-1930’s (a work in progress)

Research mainly in the daily newspaper Correio Da Manha

1928-Geo Omori, Japanese jiu-jitsu expert comes to Brazil.

9/1928-Geo Omori begins taking on all comers with Queirolo’s Circus in Sao Paulo.

1930-Geo Omori, the Gracie brothers, Roberto Ruhmann and Dudu are all active in the professional fight circuit in Sao Paulo. The five Gracie brothers are Carlos, George, Oswaldo, Gastao and Helio. Carlos learned jiu-jitsu from the legendary “Conde Koma” Maeda. The Gracies both taught the art and engaged in pro fights. The Gracie family has become known throughout the world for their martial art Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

1/5/1930-Sao Paulo
Carlos Gracie drew Geo Omori, jiu-jitsu.

1/19/1930-Sao Paulo
Carlos Gracie drew Geo Omori, jiu-jitsu…George Gracie vs. Johnnes Toom; jiu-jitsu vs. boxing contest.

Tavares Crespo vs. Jayme Martins Ferreira; luta romana (Greco-Roman wrestling)…Crespo appeared regularly in both wrestling and boxing matches…Ferreira was both a wrestler and a capoeira practioner…capoeira is an African-influenced Brazilian martial art. He later trained in jiu-jitsu under the Gracies.

Manoel Fernandes, of Portugal vs. Williams; luta romana.

1931-The Gracies and Omori have both relocated to Rio and have rival jiu-jitsu academies.

Erwin Klausner beat Ismael Haki; boxing-decision

Jayme Martins Ferreira vs. Oscar “Indio” Baptiste; luta romana

Erwin Klausner beat Ismael Haki; Boxing-KO

Tavares Crespo vs. Alcindo Pacheco; luta romana.

Jayme Martins Ferreira vs. Bijoca; luta romana…Pantojo vs. Carioca; luta romana…plus three boxing bouts…promoter: Oscar Ribeiro.

George Gracie vs. Mario Aleixo, jiu-jitsu vs. capoeira contest…there was a big rivalry in Rio at this time between Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and capoeira

11/1931-Rio Theatro Republica
George Gracie beat Jayme Martins Ferreira, jiu-jitsu vs. capoeira contest…Oswaldo Gracie vs. Bahiano, jiu-jitsu vs. capoeira contest…Andre Jansen vs. Eurico Fernandes, capoeira fight…Caio vs. Mane, capoeira fight…earlier in the year Oswaldo Gracie defeated Joao Baldi, the 330-lb. professional wrestler.

George Gracie vs. Mario Aleixo, jiu-jitsu vs. capoeira fight…Jayme Martins Ferreira vs. Geo Smith, luta livre (catch-as-catch-can)…Euclydes vs. Mane, capoeira…Jack vs. Waldemar, capoeira…plus a Batucada demonstration (the percussion music associated with capoeira)…Smith is billed as a German wrestler.

12/30/31-Rio Theatro Republica
Geo Omori vs. Samsao, luta livre.

Geo Omori beat Tavares Crespo, boxer…Helio Gracie beat Antonio Portugal, boxer…these were jiu-jitsu vs. boxing contests…Helio’s pro debut. He was the youngest of the brothers.

2/1932-Rio Theatro Republica
Roberto Ruhmann, professional wrestler and strongman is holding fight cards featuring wrestlers, boxers and capoeiristas…Ruhmann has a match with Joao Baldi.

3/1932-Rio Theatro Republica
Roberto Ruhmann beat Adam Mayer, luta livre…Joao Baldi vs. Manoel Fernandes, luta livre…Oscar Baptiste vs. Manoel Costa, luta livre…Annibal Prior, boxer vs. Jose Soares; boxing vs. luta livre match.

4/1932 (or possibly late 3/1932)-Rio Theatro Republica
Roberto Ruhmann vs. Manoel Fernandes, luta livre…Tavares Crespo vs. Geronica Barbosa, luta livre…Jayme Martins Ferreira vs. Jose Sampolo, luta livre…Wilson Pavina vs. Kid Burlini, boxing…Veludinho vs. Corsico, capoeira.

4/1932-Rio Theatro Republica
Tico Soledade beat Joao Baldi, luta livre…Jayme Martins Ferreira beat Amilcar Fortes, luta livre…Jose Alvaro da Cunha beat Vico Tadeg, luta livre; referee: Roberto Ruhmann…plus three boxing matches.

5/1932-Orlando Americo da Silva, known as Dudu, a popular Sao Paulo pro wrestler is in Rio and issues a challenge to Roberto Ruhmann…Dudu is skilled at both luta livre and jiu-jitsu.

6/1932-Rio Sao Cristanao Athletic Club (SCAC)
Dudu vs. Roberto Ruhmann, luta livre…Tavares Crespo vs. Alvaro Cunha, luta livre…Annibal Prior vs. Bruno Spalla, boxing…plus other boxing and capoeira matches.

Geo Omori vs. Yousouf, luta livre…Dudu vs. Adam Mayer, luta livre…Tavares Crespo vs. Alvaro Cunha, luta livre…Mineyeshi vs. Saburo Sendo, jiu-jitsu…plus preliminary bouts and demonstrations.

7/1932-SCAC Rio
Dudu vs. Manoel Fernandes, luta livre…Tavares Crespo vs. Roberto Coelho, luta livre…plus other luta livre and boxing bouts.

9/1932-Theatro Joao Caetano Rio
Helio Gracie beat Takashi Namika, jiu-jitsu…Tavares Crespo vs. Jayme Martins Ferreira, luta livre…plus other luta livre and jiu-jitsu bouts.

9/1932-SCAC Rio
Geo Omori vs. Manoel Fernandes, luta livre…Fred Ebert vs. Dudu, luta livre exhibition…Jayme Martins Ferreira vs. Amilcar Fortes, luta livre…Saburo Sendo vs. Ouchida, jiu-jitsu, referee: Takashi Namika…plus boxing and capoeira bouts…Ebert is a globe-trotting German-American pro wrestler.

Geo Omori drew Fred Ebert, luta livre…plus boxing matches.

11/5/32-SCAC Rio
Helio Gracie, 143 lbs. drew Fred Ebert, 191.4 lbs., vale tudo (no-holds-barred submission wrestling, some striking permitted, pinfalls do not count.)…Dudu beat Kid Walker, Ebert’s touring partner, luta livre…Dudu vs. Geo Omori, luta livre exhibition…Manoel Fernandes beat Roque Filho, luta livre…Tavares Crespo drew Manoel Parada, luta livre…the Gracie/Ebert match was stopped by the police after one hour and 45 minutes due to the night-time event curfew.

3/21/12 10:53 PM
Posts: 4814
George Gracie vs. Fred Ebert, luta livre…canceled due to Gracie’s illness…George trained for the match with Dudu…he was no longer associated with his brothers.

12/16/32-Stadium Riachuelo Rio
(may have been held on the 17th)
Geo Omori vs. Roberto Ruhmann, luta livre…Joao Baldi vs. Manoel Lima, luta romana…Manoel Fernandes vs. Lindolph Meirelles, luta livre…Ismael Haki vs. Joao da Sorija, boxing…Annibal Prior vs, Bruno Spalla, boxing…plus other luta livre and boxing bouts.

12/27/32-Fred Ebert issued a challenge to meet Roberto Ruhmann “under any conditions”…Ebert seems to have left Brazil shortly after this challenge…he shows back up in America in 1935 and wrestles around the country until about 1950. (in 1929 and 1930 he had been in Australia and New Zealand.)

Joao Baldi vs. Jose Floriano, luta romana.

4/1933-SCAC Rio
George Gracie drew Geo Omori, jiu-jitsu…plus other jiu-jitsu, luta livre and boxing bouts.

5/23/33-Theatro Republica Rio
Roberto Ruhmann beat Pernarella.

5/30/33-Theatro Republica Rio
Herminio da Oliveira, “O Estrangulador da Policia Especial” (The Strangler of the Special Police) vs. Lindolpho Meirelles, luta livre…plus other luta livre and boxing bouts.

6/10/33-Stadium Riachuelo Rio
Dudu vs. Yousouf, luta livre.

6/11/33-Sao Paulo
Roberto Ruhmann vs. Joao Baldi.

Herminio da Oliveira vs. Manoel Fernandes, luta livre…Silvano Costa vs. Waldemar Moraes, boxing.

10/31/33-Stadium Brasil Rio
George Gracie beat Manoel Fernandes, luta livre…plus two pro and three amateur boxing matches.

Dudu beat Leconte, luta livre…Carlos Gracie vs. Jose Cayat, jiu-jitsu exhibition…Jayme Martins Ferreira vs. Roberto Coelho, luta livre…Cayat was a Gracie protégé.
(Note: This may have been the Leconti, an Italian wrestler, who was managed by the Gracie brothers’ father Gastao, Sr. in connection with a circus.)

George Gracie drew Geo Omori, vale tudo.

1/6/1934-Luna Park Buenos Aires, Argentina
The first professional catch-as-catch-can wrestling tournament was held by Stanislaus and Wladek Zbyszko and their North American troupe featuring Count Karl Nowina and Andres Castanos.

1/19/34-Stadium Brasil Rio
George Gracie vs. Dudu, luta livre…match didn’t take place.

Dudu vs. Geo Omori, luta livre…plus boxing matches.

4/1934-Roberto Ruhmann beat Taro Miyake…Taro Miyake was a pioneer Japanese martial artist in the west. He spent some thirty plus years traveling the world teaching his techniques, fighting challenge matches and taking part in professional wrestling. He was well-known on the North American wrestling circuits.

Helio Gracie vs. Taro Miyake…match postponed.

Zbyszko troupe’s Rio debut… “Luta Americano”…Stanislaus Zbyszko vs. Einar Johannsen…Andreas Castanos vs. Jack Russell…Martin Zikoff vs. Dudu…Jack Conley vs. Mossoro…Alvaro Santos vs. Jaboty, amateur boxing match…Castanos, a Spanish wrestler and boxer was the winner of a big tournament the troupe held in Buenos Aires.

George Gracie vs. Shigeo, jiu-jitsu…LaVerne Baxter vs. Bergomas, catch-as-catch-can…plus boxing matches…Baxter was part of the Zbyszko troupe.

5/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Konde (“Count”) Karol Nowina vs. Jack Conley…Wladek Zbyszko vs. Einar Johannsen…Bill Lyon (Leon?) vs. Jack Russell…Dudu vs. Martin Zikoff…Nowina is billed as the Zbyszkos’ nephew and along with Castanos were the stars of the troupe…these matches are listed as “catch-as-catch-can” to distinguish the American style from Brazil’s Luta Livre, which were supposed to be legitimate contests (but pro wrestling is pro wrestling around the world no matter what it is called.)

5/1934-Stanislaus Zbyszko challenges Roberto Ruhmann and the Gracies to wrestle his troupe.

Boxing card included Zbyszko troupers LaVerne Baxter vs. Renato Gardini, catch-as-catch-can.

5/22/34-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Zbyszko (Wladek or Stanislaus?) vs. Martin Zikoff…Conde Karol Nowina vs. Andreas Costanos…Bill Lyon vs. Einar Johannsen…Manoel Fernandes vs. Oscar Baptiste.

5/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Conde Karol Nowina vs. Bill Lyon…Wladek Zbyszko vs. Martin Zikoff…Stanislaus Zbyszko vs. Manoel Fernandes…Oscar Coete vs. Roque Filho…Renee vs. Mossoro…George Godfrey vs. Joe Zeeman, boxing.

5/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Andreas Castanos vs. Jack Russell…Wladek Zbyszko vs. Incognito…Dudu vs. Einar Johannsen…Jack Conley vs. Kochenko…Renee vs. Alcindo Pacheco…Jose Setton vs. Maurice Levy.

6/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Stanislaus Zbyszko vs. Jack Russell…Andreas Castanos vs. Bill Lyon…Jack Conley vs. Conde Karol Nowina…Ismael Haki vs. Kochenko.

6/7/34-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Wladek Zbyszko vs. Jack Russell…Jack Conley vs. Bill Lyon…Martin Zikoff vs. Charles Senda…plus two amateur boxing bouts.

6/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Zbyszko (S. or W.?) vs. Jack Conley…Conde Karol Nowina vs. LaVerne Baxter…Andreas Castanos vs. Jack Russell…Justiniano Silva vs. Kochenko…Abraham vs. Manoel Fernandes.

6/24/34-Stadium Brasil Rio
Helio Gracie beat Taro Miyake, jiu-jitsu…plus two boxing bouts…there was talk of a rematch but it never occurred.

6/1934-Stadium Riachuelo Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Justiniano Silva vs. Jack Russell…Conde Karol Nowina vs. Tony Marconi…LaVerne Baxter vs. Martin Zikoff…Carlos Stringari vs. Abraham.

6/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Wladek Zbyszko vs. Jack Conley…Bill Lyon vs. Charles Senda…Martin Zikoff vs. Jack Russell…Ismael Haki vs. Abraham.

George Godfrey beat Valentin Campolo, boxing, 10 rounds, point decision.

7/1934-Stadium Riachuelo Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Wladek Zbyszko vs. LaVerne Baxter…Jack Conley vs. Tony Marconi...Carlos Stringari vs. Martin Zikoff…Manoel Lima vs. Abraham.

7/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Justiniano Silva vs. Conde Karol Nowina…Bill Lyon vs. Joe Varga…Ismael Haki vs. Abraham.

7/9/34-Sao Paulo
Erminio Spalla beat Wladek Zbyszko, disqualification, 3rd round, boxing.

7/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Justiniano Silva vs. Bill Lyon…Carlos Stringari vs. Jack Russell...Joe Varga vs. Martin Zikoff…Ismael Haki vs. Pantera.

7/1934-Dudu, “Brazilian luta livre champion” challenges Justiniano “Baroneza” Silva to a catch-as-catch-can match.

7/15/34-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Andreas Castanos drew Wladek Zbyszko…Conde Karol Nowina drew Jack Russell…Dudu beat Pantera…Joao Bladi beat Manoel Lima…Carlos Stringari drew Bill Lyon. 

3/21/12 10:54 PM
Posts: 4815
 /20/34-Stadium Brasil Rio
Roberto Ruhmann drew Conde Karol Nowina, luta livre…Jayme Martins Ferreira vs. Herminio da Oliveira, luta livre…Ruhmann’s and Nowina’s purses were held up due to suspicion that the bout was “worked”…a lot of controversy was generated since the match was billed as “luta livre” and not as “catch-as-catch-can”. The Zbyszkos received a lot of bad publicity over this and eventually left Brazil.

7/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Justiniano Silva beat Andeas Castanos…George Godfrey beat Jack Russell…Carlos Stringari beat Martin Zikoff…Ismael Haki drew Manoel Fernandes.

7/1934-Stadium Riachuelo Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Conde Karol Nowina beat LaVerne Baxter…Justiniano Silva beat Martin Zikoff…Andreas Castanos drew Jack Russell…Abraham beat Manoel Fernandes.

7/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Conde Karol Nowina vs. Tony Marconi…Justiniano Silva vs. Jack Russell…LaVerne Baxter vs. Martin Zikoff…Carlos Stringari vs. Abraham.

7/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Stanislaus Zbyszko vs. Justiniano Silva…Conde Karol Nowina vs. Jack Russell…Renato Gardini vs. Martin Zikoff…George Godfrey vs. Bill Lyon.

Helio Gracie drew Wladek Zbyszko, jiu-jitsu…plus two boxing bouts.

7/29/34-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Justiniano Silva vs. Joe Keller…Conde Karol Nowina vs. Jack Russell…Renato Gardini vs. Bill Lyon…Carlos Stringari vs. Stanislaus Zbyszko…George Godfrey vs. Martin Zikoff.

8/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Roberto Ruhmann vs. Bill Lyon…Stanislaus Zbyszko vs. Andreas Castanos…Jack Russell vs. Carlos Stringari…Mossoro vs. Abraham.

George Gracie vs. Jack Conley, luta livre…plus boxing matches.
(possibly changed to the 15th.)

George Godfrey vs. Mauro Galusso, boxing.

9/1934-Sao Paulo
George Godfrey vs. Jack Conley, boxing.

9/13/34-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Wladek Zbyszko vs. Justiniano Silva…Conde Karol Nowina vs. Ismael Haki…Jack Conley vs. Bill Lyon…Abilio Alvarez vs. Mossoro.

George Gracie vs. Renato Gardini, luta livre…Gardini replaced the injured Roberto Ruhmann.

10/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Renato Gardini vs. Justiniano Silva…Al Perreira vs. Conde Karol Nowina…plus boxing matches.

Wladek Zbyszko beat George Gracie, luta livre (submission wrestling…no pinfalls)…Conde Karol Nowina drew Renato Gardini, catch-as-catch-can…plus boxing bouts…Wladek won with an armbar.

10/7/34-Stadium Riachuelo Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Justiniano Silva drew Everett Kibbons…Al Perreira beat Bill Lyon…Murillo de Carvalho vs. Milton Soares, boxing.

10/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Renato Gardini vs. Al Perreira…Jack Conley vs. Martinez, of Argentina.

10/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Al Perreira vs. Martinez…Justiniano Silva vs. Jack Conley…plus boxing matches.

10/1934-Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Justiniano Silva vs. Martinez…Renato Gardini vs. Everett Kibbons…plus amateur boxing matches.

10/20/1934-Stadium Riachuelo Rio (Zbyszko troupe)
Conde Karol Nowina vs. Al Perreira…Jose Cayat vs. Joao Pecanha…plus boxing.

Dudu vs. George Gracie, luta livre…match to be held for the Brazilian championship…George left the ring before the match started in a dispute over the rules which would have allowed elbow strikes…George wanted a pure grappling match.

11/8/34-Carlos Gracie challenged Dudu on behalf of his brother Helio to meet in a vale tudo (“anything goes”) fight.

Helio Gracie beat Dudu, vale tudo…the fight lasted 19 minutes and was very brutal…plus three boxing matches.
3/21/12 10:55 PM
Posts: 4816
 6/20/1935-Luna Park Buenos Aires, Argentina
Wladek Zbyszko beat Abe Kaplan… “world championship”.

Gracie (Helio or George?) vs. Yano, jiu-jitsu…Jose Dotti vs. Yakuro Goti, jiu-jitsu…plus two boxing bouts.

Manoel Grillo, jiu-jitsu champion of Portugal vs. Geo Omori, jiu-jitsu…Miyake (Taro?) vs. Arake Kioto, jiu-jitsu…plus two pro and two amateur boxing bouts.

11/20/35-Belo Horizonte
George Gracie vs. Maximino Grandi

Geo Omori vs. Yano

Helio Gracie drew Yasuichi Ono, jiu-jitsu…Ono had challenged to fight all five Gracies in one night.

11/29/1936-Belo Horizonte
George Gracie beat Yano-luta livre contest

/ /37-Belo Horizonte-Helio Gracie beat Erwin Klausner; jiu-jitsu vs. boxer

(Notes: Helio Gracie also had matches with Takeo Yano, Massagoishi in the late 1930’s…George Gracie had many, many matches-vale tudo, jiu-jitsu, catch wrestling and luta livre over his long career… Michele Leoni may have brought a troupe of American pro wrestlers to Brazil in 1933…starting in 1936 Brazilian luta livre wrestler Tatu (Euclydes Hatem) began gaining fame and had victories over George Gracie, Dick Shikat, Charles Ulsmer and Henry Piers…during a world tour American pro wrestler Dr. Len Hall claimed to have defeated Dudu in 1937.)

Mark S. Hewitt 2010-2011
(Special thanks to Carlos Eduardo Loddo.)
3/21/12 10:59 PM
Posts: 3682
 wow, you learned how to copy and paste

gold star!
3/21/12 11:00 PM
Posts: 494
Sub Phone Post
3/21/12 11:16 PM
Posts: 3688
 lol at sleepbumb

traneufc thank you for this crafty copy and paste job. I truly do appreciate it!
3/22/12 12:04 AM
Posts: 4817
 Forget the 'star', I want a gold stripe!

Seriously, I think it is interesting how developed the Vale Tudo scene was  was already prior the Gracies impact. IT appears that perhaps there were quite a number of Japanese doing JJ in Brazil after the turn of the century.
3/22/12 12:28 AM
Posts: 16249
Helio Gracie invented leverage Phone Post
Edited: 3/22/12 1:21 AM
Posts: 17169

Great stuff!

According to Carlos, George Gracie was THE best fighter of the Gracie brothers.

Helio clearly hated George and to whatever extent his other brothers as well (excepting Carlos).

As a result, George, Gastao, Jr. & Oswaldo have basically been completely written out of BJJ history as related By the Helio lineage.

It's actually mind-boggling the amount of disinformation we as BJJ practitioners we have absorbed about the Gracie family's history.

If you haven't read them, BJJ Heros has good bios on George and the other brothers:<br /><br />
3/22/12 3:24 AM
Posts: 5579
^One of the few shen posts that I didn't find myself laughing my ass off of.
3/22/12 3:35 AM
Posts: 14
Can someone give me the rough family tree from when the Gracies moved to Brazil to Helios birth?

I thought George Gracie was the Scottish immigrant who moved to Brazil in the 1800s and Gastao was his son, who in turn had Helio.

Someone correct me please.
3/22/12 4:37 AM
Posts: 1343
Very interesting!

I wonder how many of those fights were 'works', considering most of those guys came from the pro wrestling circuit.
3/22/12 9:19 AM
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Ttt for George Gracie! Nice find btw. Phone Post
3/22/12 11:17 AM
Posts: 8148
nice info. too much to read at once.
3/22/12 11:37 AM
Posts: 48
"^^^ Right here, I found interesting. In the early 30s, there were other Japanese with "BJJ" academies already sprouting in brazil, alongside the Gracies. And there was a professional fight circuit that was not created by the Gracies. "

Japanese called only JJ. And actually Brazilians in Brazil call BJJ only JJ as well.

These JJ gyms following the kodokan changed the name at some period of time to Judo. The gracies decide to stick calling jj and they went separte ways in rules and focus.
3/22/12 11:39 AM
Posts: 49
Early Report on BJJ

Somebody can copy/paste this as well.
3/22/12 12:33 PM
Posts: 491
4 later
3/22/12 1:07 PM
Posts: 4818
Wow, this is interesting a letter written in 1960:

Here's an interesting bit of information on early BJJ, long before it was known in the U.S. - it seems apparent that the Gracie family has - for quite some time - not been fans of Judo... which seems strange considering their martial art roots.


                 8801 STENTON AVENUE PHILADELPHIA 18, PA.
                   ADAMS 3-2O5O CHESTNUT HILL 8-2550

                                                       August 31, 1960


     Mrs. Helen Foos
     c/o Philadelphia Judo Club
     P.O. Box 165
     Merion, Pa.

     Dear Mrs. Foos,
                             I have just returned from a two weeks lecture
     tour of Brazil and found the very fine looking new copies of the Judo
     Bulletin.  I think the cover is outstanding and of course, I was most
     interested in the news.  May I add some news for your next Bulletin?

                             I had the opportunity to conduct classes at the
     Brazilian Military Academy of Physical Education with particular em-
     phasis on Judo.  I found that their Judo system was predicated on the
     "Gracie" method which had its inception in Rio about 30 years ago.
     Since the system seemed to be a queer mixture of Jiu Jitsu, Karate,
     and Judo I determined to visit the Gracie Salon.  I found them occ-
     upying two floors in a very large office building, very lush quarters,
     many rooms with padded walls,and floors covered by tatamis and one
     large room with sitting space for spectators.  I found that this was
     a business run by a very large family, all of whom claimed to be champ-
     ions and all of whom were very dynamic people.  I spent three hours
     with the two leaders of the Gracie family and found them very bitterly
     opposed to Judo per se, to the Judo system in general and to Japanese
     in particular.  The leader claimed to have defeated every Judo Black
     Belt that had ever visited Brazil.  It took me three hours to find out
     something about the system.

                             They do not observe formalities or convention
     but do wear Judogis (made by themselves and claimed to be the best in
     the world).  A standing throw meant nothing but affording the opport-
     unity to work on the mat.  Most of the techniques seemed to point in
     the direction of causing the opponent to quit in the grappling situa-
     tion.  While I found nothing of extreme merit within this system these
     people are indeed the Judo (?) powers in Brazil as was evident by the
     military utilizing their system.  Their whole appraisal of Judo or
     Jiu Jitsu is "Can you beat your opponent by any means?". There are
     several Kodokan type Judo organizations in Rio but my other commit-
     ments did not permit me to visit them.

                             I feel that possibly your readers will be inter-
     ested in knowing what is happening in other parts of the world in our
                                              Sincerely yours,

     ARF:ge                                   Anthony R. Flores
                                              Lt. Col. MSC
3/22/12 1:29 PM
Posts: 3808

3/22/12 2:01 PM
Posts: 597
I believe Darcio Lira comes from a Japanese lineage. If I recall, they refer to there system as Brazilian Traditional Jiu Jitsu Phone Post
3/22/12 2:21 PM
Posts: 11464
 What happened to George's lineage who are his sons?  Did George's sons train?
3/22/12 2:31 PM
Posts: 70
Thanks for the heads up about George Gracie. I always just thought he was just a brother and never even knew he was involved in BJJ and how much he accomplished. It's amazing how he is phased out of BJJ history by the Helio lineage. The article about him does state he had many falling outs with Carlos and one late one with Helio that I guess was never patched up. It was a great read.
3/22/12 2:38 PM
Posts: 1082
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