David Jacobs' BJJGround Tougher training: BJJ, Judo, Wrestling?

7/27/14 4:20 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 2057
I read were Dave Camarillio said BJJ training was easy to him after Training Judo. I have also heard high level Judo instructors say train Judo but run class like wrestling. So really what is the harder practices and why is that so?
7/27/14 4:52 PM
7/16/09
Posts: 125
Almost nothing is physically harder than wrestling practice. Judo and Jiu-Jitsu are pretty close depending on where you're training. Phone Post 3.0
7/27/14 5:09 PM
1/29/08
Posts: 887
Im going with wrestling. Phone Post 3.0
7/27/14 5:32 PM
3/15/11
Posts: 1377
The Tiger Man - You can't do a judo class or wrestling calls high on weed....... Phone Post 3.0
Although this isnt true (have totally gone to wrestling practice high), the answer is DEFINITELY wrestling. Phone Post 3.0
7/27/14 5:55 PM
1/2/03
Posts: 482
Toss up depending on where your training. I wrestled on scholarship for the University of Nebraska and was a top 20 judoka on the international scene. From my experience I would have to say its a toss up. Being choked and slammed in both sports is a rough life to say the least!!!!
7/27/14 6:06 PM
4/1/02
Posts: 95
The average wrestling class at a reasonably competitive high school team would make most average bjj or judo players cry. Of course there are elite players in judo and bjj who train incredibly hard but if you are taking about an average participant than there is really no comparison. Phone Post 3.0
7/27/14 6:22 PM
3/14/02
Posts: 6625
Jay Bell - The average wrestling class at a reasonably competitive high school team would make most average bjj or judo players cry. Of course there are elite players in judo and bjj who train incredibly hard but if you are taking about an average participant than there is really no comparison. Phone Post 3.0
This is the answer. Phone Post 3.0
7/27/14 6:37 PM
12/18/03
Posts: 13058
Wrestling Phone Post 3.0
7/27/14 6:44 PM
10/23/09
Posts: 2317
It depends on what you mean by tougher.

In terms of workload, wrestling is incredibly tough, but so is super high level judo.

In terms of how tough it is on the body, I notice people who start Judo later in life get injured more often than those who start wrestling later in life.

Make of that what you will.
7/27/14 6:58 PM
12/6/10
Posts: 1097
I would say wrestling is the most grueling, judo probably the most painful unless they use crash pads, and bjj most relaxed.

I've never trained judo, would love to one day be a judo and bjj black belt but I need a school without all the traditional bowing and yes sensei no sensei stuff, no disrespect but I just don't find that enjoyable. Phone Post 3.0
7/27/14 8:23 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 2948
I can only go by the feedback from our juniors who do wrestling and judo. Wrestling practices are killers and so is the conditioning is what they tell me. Judo you better have the skill level which is more important since you can win by Ippon and quickly defeat your opponent. Now if you go to countries like Korea and Japan for example who have judo as their main sport these kids train 6 days a week from childhood. But in the US wrestling is what I have been told.
7/27/14 8:25 PM
9/12/11
Posts: 154
Wrestling
Edited: 7/28/14 3:28 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 22185

Well, my old Hapkido class was no joke...

10 min of streching (ALL of the muscles)

15 min of standing wrist grab escapes 

10 minutes of kicks & punches (no break)

10 minutes of body grab escapes & advanced arts.

-- 45 min of pure hell!!! At the end, you were either dead or wished you were!

 

 

7/27/14 8:39 PM
12/15/11
Posts: 1111
Without a doubt, wrestling. However, at the HIGHEST levels (worlds/olympics), wrestling and judo are about even. BJJ world champions would not even make the grade at a top 10 national HS team. This isn't hyperbole, this is fact.

I wrestled in high school, and the practices were 2 hours. This is already about 30 minutes longer than most BJJ classes.

Our typical practice would consist of 20 minutes or so warm ups with pushups, sit ups, rope climbs and partner stretches and light drilling. Followed by an hour or so of technique/ drilling, and 20-30 minutes of live situationals or live gos with 10 minutes or so of conditioning at the end. Sometimes practices would be 2.5 hours long if coach wanted us to do more conditioning. Conditioning would mean endless burpees, push ups, room sprints, partner carrys, bear crawls, rope climbs, stair runs and my most dreaded: plate carrys/ plate routines.

This is a typical practice that would occur 5 times a week. Red flag days were worse. Technical instruction would be forego in favor of 1.5 hrs of live goes. The floor would be drenched, and emotions would be running high. I would come home wrecked, and struggle to do homework, but usually end up passing out around 9pm. Some really dedicated guys would do morning conditioning runs and lifts on top of all this. ANd we were a pretty run of the mill team. I cannot even imagine how some power houses like Brandon, or Blair practiced. I know some HS teams even include weights at the END of practice, making their sessions around 3 hours long. To me, this is stupid and this time could have been spent on technique and drilling.

College wrestling is a whole another animal.

In my life, I have never encountered anything as strenous- especially in the world of BJJ. I know some teams like Atos do carry this philosophy, but even an hour + of sparring in BJJ, high intensity, would not equate to an hour of wrestling high intensity. By sheer virtue of our different sports' rules and techniques, wrestling's intensity is incomparable. One cannot initiate take downs in a lackadaisical manner. Doubles, singles, high cs, throws, ducks, all have to be done explosively with a single minded drive to finish.

I have met many Japanese Judokas who had similar practices. But the intensity of their practices were less due to the nature of Judo and more of the sense of pride in their sport, and unparalleled work ethic. A Japanese HS judo practice is NOT your average YMCA practice. And Judo at a top Japanese university or Korean university is very similar to a D1/D2 wrestling college, mainly due to their drive to win.

But the majority of the Judo world does not share the Japanese mindset, and you will see Judo in weaker countries such as the U.S or Canada not have the same intensity at the cadet levels.

Then again, that's why the Japanese are so dominant.
7/27/14 9:32 PM
8/17/12
Posts: 1683
^ Europe's pretty much caught up to Japan now tho yeah? Phone Post 3.0
7/27/14 9:52 PM
1/18/06
Posts: 595
Comparing a high school wrestling practice or a competitive judo practice to a run of the mill bjj class feels like comparing apples to oranges. Of course they're going to train harder than the average bjj class, they're preparing for competition while a random bjj class has a bunch of people just training for fun or self defense or whatever.

I never wrestled so I can't really compare the two but I feel like a BJJ competition team practice is going to be close(or at least closer) to that of a competitive wrestling practice. In our competition classes getting ready for worlds we usually did ~20-30 minutes of technique followed by 6-8 10 minute rounds and often finished with some sort of cardio. As far as I can tell all the big competition teams structure the practices in a similar way. Maybe wrestling practices are way harder then our competition classes but it's going to be much closer than a random all levels class.
7/27/14 11:06 PM
4/21/10
Posts: 20241
Cant speak for wrestling but judo training was much more taxing than bjj. Phone Post 3.0
7/28/14 1:45 AM
10/31/06
Posts: 1078
bjj is easiest because you're not penalized for being defensive.
7/28/14 3:21 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 4828
I went to a rinkydink high school that was non competitive but the wrestling practices where hell. They were awesome, but extremely, EXTREMELY, hard. God I miss those days. Phone Post 3.0
7/28/14 8:14 AM
3/28/07
Posts: 2951
I listen to one of mu judoka friends talk about his son's wrestling workouts and I think to myself that is "child abuse". And to boot the parents can't complain to the coach. Their is a hierarchy of parents involved in the program you have to follow wit any concerns. Their way or the highway. But they are #1 wrestling program in the state.
7/28/14 8:27 AM
3/15/11
Posts: 1379
shen -

Well, my old Hapkido class was no joke...

10 min of streching (ALL of the muscles)

15 min of standing wrist grab escapes 

10 minutes of kicks & punches (no break)

10 minutes of body grab escapes & advanced arts.

-- 45 min of pure hell!!! At the end, you were either dead or wished you were!

 

 

its tough to think of a shen post I haven't laughed at. 10/10 Phone Post 3.0
7/28/14 8:35 AM
10/2/13
Posts: 43
I believe a practice session in either discipline can be as intense as you make it. If you train yourself to constantly be on the attack you will train your mind, body, and spirit. My son whom now wrestles for a D1 program has always tried to mentally break his opponents in high school and now in college. He simply constantly attacks so much that his opponents, after a while, ask to take a water break, start fidgeting with their clothing, ask like they are tieing their shoes, etc. I believe you can push yourself in that manner in any discipline.
7/28/14 8:39 AM
11/13/08
Posts: 20589
From easiest to hardest

Bjj

Judo

Wrestling
7/28/14 9:13 AM
3/16/07
Posts: 2200
Until you have experienced a college wrestling practice you havent experienced "grueling" by any means
7/28/14 9:29 AM
12/12/13
Posts: 135

I think Judo and Wrestling on the feet are tougher than BJJ on the mat. You have less control over your opponent standing, so you are constantly fighting for position and moving.

Judo stands out to me in particular with how much stress is placed on your hands and forearms with handfighting.

Mat wrestling in American Folkstyle can be brutal while you are on bottom and someone good is on top of you trying to turn, cranking on your arms and shoulders while you bear their weight. Free and greco too, some people have vice grips that make it feel like your ribs are going to break.

BJJ is tough, but I think you just have more static positions that, while they require strength, don't allow the kind of scrambles and movements that really tire you out.

It's not a coincidence that many if not most top BJJ programs are run by people that learned to run practices through Judo or Wrestling.