Boxing UnderGround How good was Larry Holmes?

12/23/14 10:26 AM
6/27/02
Posts: 10890

Every time a discussion about all time greats in boxing takes place you will always get people talking about how underrated Holmes is. It's so common, that I don't know how people can continue to say it. Most people seem to rate him. Does he crack your top 10? top 5?
12/23/14 12:17 PM
6/27/02
Posts: 10893
12/23/14 2:10 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11079

top 10 heavy to me. great jab, very good movement, perfect timing on the short right if you did get past the jab. also could hook off the jab, which is truly a lost art. holmes was a very efficient offensive machine. and also could go 15 with ease at a good clip. i would take prime 1979-1982 holmes over any heavy active today except wlad. any of the rest of the guys, holmes just jabs and drops the right all day and holmes isn't going to fade in the 10th round. people throw up his lose to tyson. holmes prime ended in 83. against witherspoon was when he forst showed signs of slipping and yet was still able to keep winning

12/23/14 3:06 PM
1/11/13
Posts: 3878
Can't speak from personal experiences but, from what I've heard on podcasts etc
He didn't have the level of opponents that the legends before him had.
But they all say the same shamus, he was underrated. Phone Post 3.0
12/23/14 6:36 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11081
martinburke - Since it's the season to be merry I'm determined to be nice, so I'll just say that I agree with everything pharochuck said except for his first sentence.

Merry Christmas, Larry.


why thank you sir

12/23/14 6:47 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11082
Browny85 - Can't speak from personal experiences but, from what I've heard on podcasts etc
He didn't have the level of opponents that the legends before him had.
But they all say the same shamus, he was underrated. Phone Post 3.0

his comp was a stepdown from the 80's but he really dominated them. i remember at some point in the early 80's homes while holding the wbc belt would already have beaten the wba guy and would have beat at least 5 of the other contenders. he made the wba belt irelevent by completely dominating the division 

that's clear cut dominance that you just dont have anymore. for the talk of wlad's dominance, out of the current top 15 he's only fought two of them. i know he's closing on on total defenses to surpass holmes. but to be equal to holmes he would need to beat jennings, the winner of stiverne-wilder and tyson fury next year in back to back to back fights

12/23/14 6:48 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11083

and did anyone see that somehow antonio tarver is now top ten ranked? what kind of foolishness is this?

12/23/14 7:19 PM
1/11/13
Posts: 3880
Didn't he leave one belt to fight for the IBF too ?
Which instantly gave that belt recognition. Phone Post 3.0
12/23/14 8:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11084
Browny85 - Didn't he leave one belt to fight for the IBF too ?
Which instantly gave that belt recognition. Phone Post 3.0

pretty much. that put them on the map. 

12/23/14 9:04 PM
1/11/13
Posts: 3882
Too many belts IMO. All these sanctioning fees etc, it's bullshit.
I think the WBA is the biggest joke of all in some weights they have an interim, regular and a super champion.
For fuck sake, when will it in.
I know the lineal champion is regarded at top dog but, I wish they'd do away with it all and have one belt. Phone Post 3.0
12/24/14 6:35 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 4471
Considering that the rankings are often changed as the result of a simple well connected phone call, I sadly can't say that I am overly shocked. Phone Post 3.0
12/24/14 1:32 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11089
Chappie - Considering that the rankings are often changed as the result of a simple well connected phone call, I sadly can't say that I am overly shocked. Phone Post 3.0

however, he beat a guy ranked 247 in the world and then beat jonathan bamks and they are saying he's top 10. lol, that's ridiculous. 

12/24/14 5:09 PM
7/31/13
Posts: 3045
Which guys beat a prime Holmes? Phone Post 3.0
12/24/14 5:28 PM
6/27/02
Posts: 10903
"But they all say the same shamus, he was underrated"

That's what I am saying.

Every time he is brought up people say how good he was and bemoan how underrated he is. So who exactly is he underrated by ?
12/24/14 8:31 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11100
Frames4Life - Which guys beat a prime Holmes? Phone Post 3.0

ali, louis, dempsey, liston, maybe frazier. bowe, lennox, wlad, vitali, 

12/24/14 9:29 PM
1/11/13
Posts: 3888
Ian Paisley is my hero - "But they all say the same shamus, he was underrated"

That's what I am saying.

Every time he is brought up people say how good he was and bemoan how underrated he is. So who exactly is he underrated by ?
Like I said
Can't speak from personal experience
But the podcast, people on Twitter etc
People 'supposedly' in the know seem to say he is underrated.
All I know, he was light on his feet and by all accounts had a tremendous jab. Phone Post 3.0
12/25/14 6:28 PM
5/12/08
Posts: 969
Frames4Life - Which guys beat a prime Holmes? Phone Post 3.0
Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Fraiser, Foreman, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, W. Klitchko, V. Klitchko Phone Post 3.0
12/25/14 6:49 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11105
mmanthebay -
Frames4Life - Which guys beat a prime Holmes? Phone Post 3.0
Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Fraiser, Foreman, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, W. Klitchko, V. Klitchko Phone Post 3.0
Holyfield has nothing for prime holmes neither does Marciano. I'm on the fence in regards to Frazier. Phone Post 3.0
12/26/14 9:43 AM
5/12/08
Posts: 970
pharochuck -
mmanthebay -
Frames4Life - Which guys beat a prime Holmes? Phone Post 3.0
Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Fraiser, Foreman, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, W. Klitchko, V. Klitchko Phone Post 3.0
Holyfield has nothing for prime holmes neither does Marciano. I'm on the fence in regards to Frazier. Phone Post 3.0
Why not?

Those two were the toughest for me to put on the list. I think Holyfield Holmes is a toss up. Phone Post 3.0
12/26/14 10:51 AM
5/12/08
Posts: 971
martinburke - Holyfield had a habit of spending way too much time being stuck out on the end of even just a decent jab. That's a bad habit to have against Holmes.

Joe Louis gets a lot of criticism for his Bum of the Month club, but were those guys any worse than the ones Holmes got to defend his title against? Alfredo Evangalista, Renaldo Snipes, Lorenzo Zanon, Ossie Ocasio, Scott Ledoux, Scott Frank, Lucien Rodriguez...the list goes on.

They were fucking horrible.

Louis struck fear in his opponents and generally disposed of them brutally.

Holmes, not so much. Too often, a thumb to the eye would have to be applied to get rid of a stubborn challenger.




I see.

I was really young at the end of Holmes prime. I mainly remember Micheal Spinks beating him. Phone Post 3.0
12/26/14 2:45 PM
6/27/02
Posts: 10911
Frazier would batter Holmes. Frazier is more underrated than Holmes . Frazier won the most relevant fight with Ali and I don't see how Holmes beats the version of Frazier in the first Ali fight

Holmes was dropped by lesser fighters than Foreman too. Dont see why Big George couldn't KO him

Nobody give Ezzard Charles and Walcott a chance against Holmes? Who did he beat better than them?
12/26/14 3:18 PM
5/12/08
Posts: 972
Ian Paisley is my hero - Frazier would batter Holmes. Frazier is more underrated than Holmes . Frazier won the most relevant fight with Ali and I don't see how Holmes beats the version of Frazier in the first Ali fight

Holmes was dropped by lesser fighters than Foreman too. Dont see why Big George couldn't KO him

Nobody give Ezzard Charles and Walcott a chance against Holmes? Who did he beat better than them?
I forgot all about Charles and Walcott. Phone Post 3.0
12/26/14 3:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11109
Ian Paisley is my hero - Frazier would batter Holmes. Frazier is more underrated than Holmes . Frazier won the most relevant fight with Ali and I don't see how Holmes beats the version of Frazier in the first Ali fight

Holmes was dropped by lesser fighters than Foreman too. Dont see why Big George couldn't KO him

Nobody give Ezzard Charles and Walcott a chance against Holmes? Who did he beat better than them?
Who did wolcott and charles beat that was better than holmes?
I give Frazier the edge. But it would be a maybe fight to me.
I can see holmes out boxing foreman. As far as holmes getting dropped. He showed he could be completely out and still get up and fight pretty good Phone Post 3.0
12/26/14 4:31 PM
6/27/02
Posts: 10915
Well they beat each other. I would also say that generally they fought better schooled more experienced opponents. I am not saying they would definitely beat him, but they must have a chance

Holmes had a lot of heart , and I would never really rule anything out in boxing but if George was able to get to him, it would be hard even for Holmes to recover
12/26/14 10:09 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 4473
I would pick both Charles and Walcott to beat Holmes and I think that a 1971 version of Joe Frazier would stop Holmes inside of 10 rounds. You can make a rational argument that a prime Larry Holmes would beat Evander Holyfield simply based upon styles (I would still put my money on Evander though), but I don't see how Holmes beats any of the three guys named above (both Charles and Walcott were much slicker boxers than Holmes and Smoking Joe would have likely crowded Holmes and broken Holmes with consistent pressure). Regarding Marciano, Holmes might have busted Rocky up a bit with his jab and straight right hand, but if Marciano could track down Charles, Walcott and Louis (albeit, fairly geriatric versions of each), I don't see how he doesn't do the same to Holmes. Phone Post 3.0