SoldierGround Let's talk scenario's!

12/1/07 1:06 PM
Posts: 2511
Since this is the direction of the program( at least the next step, we should start discussing scenario training a lot more. The ones already in the courses are really good(stun gun grappling, non-compliant detainee, etc). I know a lot of guys are implementing the BLauer suits and I think that is one of the best ways but not every unit has these tools yet. So here is what I want know: What are some scenarios that can be designed with combatives? Here are my requirements: a: Must be able to do them with minimum to maximum equipment depending on the level of intensity b: Must relate to combat in some real way c: Must account for unknown variables( weapons, multple enemies, etc) d: Must allow soldiers to walk away with a better understanding of combatives as it relates to combat( whaty is the lesson they are learning?) This is just to get us talking. It may be dumb but we have had some great discussions here and i want it to continue
12/2/07 12:12 PM
Posts: 2513
No one into this but me?
12/2/07 8:34 PM
Posts: 889
I'm into discussing anything MAC related but my fight up here in Drum is getting the place to see that "Counter-Hapkido" ISN'T the Army standard. Up here, "Drum Kwon Do" is the "Only" H2H program that is recognized. It is taught in every local "Hoaah" school here. Luckily my BDE CDR rolls and likes MAC. He bought 5 Grand worth of mats so we can train up here in a dedicated area out of the elements. Hopefully in a few years, I can intelligently discuss this topic with you.
12/2/07 10:20 PM
Posts: 1195

Drill C,

Sorry to get off topic Jason...I just had a couple guys from Drum come TDY to attend my Level II course. Is there no one at Drum running Level I and Level II courses on a regular basis?


I am neck deep in work this weekend. I will post some stuff this week. It is a very good topic.


12/3/07 12:26 AM
Posts: 2520
JEff, Did you train with Dan Berrera while he was there or where you busy at work?
12/3/07 9:11 AM
Posts: 8
Really good question that can potentially have a ton of really good answers. First off you have to consider your audience, what is there mission going to be? Are they going to be entering and clearing rooms and buildings? Are they protecting someone / bodyguards? I'm looking into the same stuff, as a PSD member I'm looking at the more defensive side as we won't be entering and clearing rooms but dealing more with detaining and disarming. Tailor the training to be most beneficial to that units real mission and they will appreciate what is being taught. I also have issues with equipment as my unit is reluctant to spend the money on impact reduction suits and stun guns / shock knives. I'm also interested in what other have to say on the subject. Dave
12/3/07 10:07 AM
Posts: 8
Some senarios that i've used: 1)epw search, noncompliant 2)gate protests 3)mout 4)tcp riot I try and bring in simple weapons, i.e, stick, rocks boards, etc.
12/3/07 11:51 AM
Posts: 2522
One I have used recently was this one. It's kinds of like the kids game dizzy dean Spin the guy for 1 minutehave them lay on their back. An opponent is then going to try and do one of 3 things 1. Get mount( easy) 2. Get their weapon( MEd) 3. Depoly their own weapon(harder) I though this was a good drill since it is the closest thing to simulated getting rocked and then having to fight. I have a couple of ohters but I have to go do some Crossfit right now! JK
12/3/07 12:15 PM
Posts: 447
Jason Sorry that I did not participate in the discussion I was in field. The spining drill my karate teacher used on us and I think yu are completely right. As far as crossfit here in gracie barra we do it and i used in my leverl 1 and 2 classes. I started crossfit on korea with sifu in korea AL and Jesse. Is good workouts rafie
12/3/07 3:57 PM
Posts: 2523
Not to late Rafie. Discuss away Yeah, it is touugh. I generally hit the parts with the weights without too much difficulty but all the pull-ups and handstand push ups are hardly possible. I have a meeting with a crossfit certified coach next week so maybe I can get some tips
12/3/07 5:37 PM
Posts: 767
I like to see scenarios moved into the specifics of the soldiers MOS, that is what is good about having instructors from all MOS, we can then blend combatives into the "daily job" Over here in Iraq, the only time any hand to hand has happened around me is when it came time to detain folks. But, I like to see soldiers figuring out where the fight might become hand to hand and build that into their regular training.
12/3/07 8:54 PM
Posts: 2525
I think it is good to have some MOs specific ones but i think if we have about 10-20 general ones that any soldier can do, regardkless of MOS, that is the best way
12/30/07 4:59 AM
Posts: 14
12/30/07 5:00 AM
Posts: 15
i think any scenario when people are forced to think is good. a scenario at a check point where the guy out the front has a strange request, such as wanting to get to an embassy for a visa etc, as well as good role players dressed for the part and well briefed etc. from there, depending if the soldier does the right thing or is confident or unsure of himself, will be cues for the role players to step up or enact certain 'scenarios' on the soldiers on the ground. this can happen very quickly up to 'shoot-no shoot' scenarios or detain or just engage the soldier in further conversation forcing a build up of traffic behind, further stressing the soldier and forcing rash decisions etc. bear suits and the like can be implemented as well as shock knives and 'suicide bombers' etc. imagination limits the possibilities for such a basic setting. not sure if this is what you are after JasonKeaton
12/30/07 12:50 PM
Posts: 2658
1/6/08 6:49 PM
Posts: 102
I was discussing this today with my students. I was trying to get going in this direction a little more when I was in Germany at JMRC. The issue always comes back to the "band of excellence", which is why I never seem to get off the fundamental level I grappling stuff. We can discuss scenario and "what ifs" all day long, but unless the guys have a good solid foundation in the basics, then why implement scenarios? Which is what I always run into when teaching. I do spend a great deal of time and effort on trying to make them THINK about ENDSTATE when training. WHy they are doing what they are doing. What situations they might find what they are doing might be good or bad. Once I get basics done, then introducing knives, stun guns, sticks, shinai, what not into the equation is the next step I think..this is covered by the MACP curriculm, Weapons retention training as someone mentioned above. How to set up their Kit, where they put things, type of weapons they carrym, where, how to use them. Practice using them! Intro of Blauer suits in this enviornment. MOUT, once they have their battle drills and SOPs down, cause you have to work as a team....then put them in the Blauer suits with OPFOR and OCs that are TRAINED and COMPETENT in MACP. MOUT sites must have furniture, clutter and crap in it. For PSDs, Police type stuff where you have very limited ROE/RUF...I don't see much difference in the basics above...maybe not do the "ENTER and CLEAR" stuff, but work in the same enviornment, dark, clutter, blauer suits and various weapons. Minimal force issues, arrest, control, handcuffs, flex cuffs..all done in an alive enviornment. The reason I tend to stay away from alot of this is twofold. 1. Most soldiers I train don't have the fundamentals down. 2. I have not done the METT-T on their mission, I am not their CoC, and I don't want to screw with their SOPs, ROE/RUF stuff. It gets hard enough getting units to let me work with their soldiers only to have them go back and say "MAJ Leavitt says what we are doing is wrong!" or teaching them something contrary to what the unit is doing...confuses them and might not be helpful. The real issues though boil down to time and the "band of excellence". I spent the day preaching this stuff to a bunch of Junior soldiers. Hopefully as they get up there in rank...they will remember that we don't have to train the same way we are doing it today...that you CAN be creative, you CAN train with a great deal of aliveness, and make it meaningful!
1/6/08 8:01 PM
Posts: 2700
I agree 100%. Basics firs. The MOUT scenario with the suits is great. They were doing that at Knox but I will find out if they are still doing that. MAJLeavitt, good post.