UnderGround Forums 1999 Frank Shamrock vs today's Welterweights

3/6/14 1:49 PM
11/20/00
Posts: 3795
Hypothetically speaking, of course, how do you think Frank Shamrock circa 1999 would fare in 2014's Welterweight division?

Top 10? Top 20? Not even a gatekeeper?

What about Sakuraba (2000ish)?

Do you think the game has evolved too much for his skillset at that time or would he be competitive at 170 lbs? Phone Post 3.0
3/6/14 1:55 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 997
His takedown defense has always been horrible and his takedowns were never great either. If somehow he was able to correct that he would do ok, otherwise not well at all.
3/6/14 1:55 PM
11/7/07
Posts: 12523
Shamrock top 10 easily

gets beat by GSP, Condit, Hendricks(very close)

could Sak make 170?
3/6/14 2:05 PM
4/1/09
Posts: 733
The Frank who made prime Tito tap to strikes would do well against guys 30 lbs smaller (than Tito). Yes i realize this was a slightly pre-prime Tito but my point remains the same.

Agreed his TDD was horrible. Phone Post 3.0
3/6/14 3:00 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8951
Sakuraba could easily make 170 if he did the whole dehydration/IV combo that is all the rage these days.

Prime Sakuraba would be a strong force in today's welterweight division.
3/7/14 5:34 PM
11/20/00
Posts: 3798
I'm thinking that 170 lbs would be the ideal weight division for both guys. It'd be interesting to see Sakuraba try to deal with the striking in modern day MMA and Shamrock try to handle the wrestling-heavy welterweight division.
3/7/14 5:37 PM
5/14/13
Posts: 839
1a1 - His takedown defense has always been horrible and his takedowns were never great either. If somehow he was able to correct that he would do ok, otherwise not well at all.
Takedowns not good?

Lol, ok. Phone Post 3.0
3/7/14 6:02 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 7072
Frank was always a submission over position kind of guy. He would be beaten to boring decisions by wrestlers with strong top control. Todays fighters are much more skilled with defending subs and positioning than guys in his era.
3/7/14 8:54 PM
12/14/00
Posts: 10102
He'd be top 15 at least. GSP beats him in typical boring fashion, but fights with Hendro, Condit, and Lawler would be fun as shit. Frank would still lose though. He would be on a Matt Brown level, which would also be a great fight. Phone Post
3/7/14 9:30 PM
5/23/13
Posts: 198
By all accounts, Frank was a really fast learner and very focused. I think he would have adapted and bought himself up to their level very quickly. Probably not GSP level, but could definitely make top 5 with a few modern training camps and training partners. Phone Post 3.0
3/7/14 9:39 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 18532
He had mo smith as a striking coach, that's goods pedigree.

As for saku he did well against Igor. Phone Post 3.0
3/7/14 9:46 PM
3/25/02
Posts: 7976
I think a better hypothetical re: Saku is how would he have done in the UFC's welterweight division in the early Zuffa era. Phone Post 3.0
3/7/14 9:47 PM
4/19/10
Posts: 7692
BJ Penn Forever - Sakuraba could easily make 170 if he did the whole dehydration/IV combo that is all the rage these days.

Prime Sakuraba would be a strong force in today's welterweight division.
I think he was around 175 for the first Royce fight, I don't think 170 would be difficult for him at all. Plus, he fought at 170 at the end of his career. Phone Post 3.0
3/7/14 9:49 PM
11/26/11
Posts: 1549
The sport has evolved too much. It's not a fair comparison
3/7/14 9:53 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 7073
AgedCaviar - I think a better hypothetical re: Saku is how would he have done in the UFC's welterweight division in the early Zuffa era. Phone Post 3.0

With the exception of Royler and maybe Carlos newton/Renzo, the guy had an outstanding career finishing off bigger opponents. I think he'd do great.
3/7/14 10:34 PM
9/16/10
Posts: 2275
HERTSWENIP -
AgedCaviar - I think a better hypothetical re: Saku is how would he have done in the UFC's welterweight division in the early Zuffa era. Phone Post 3.0

With the exception of Royler and maybe Carlos newton/Renzo, the guy had an outstanding career finishing off bigger opponents. I think he'd do great.
Saku would have done great. His leg kicks and southpaw striking would have been pretty decent against guys like Miletich and Hughes probably. He would have shot for singles for sure, and if he didn't get it against some American wrestlers he would have forced a scramble and had the submission chops to come out on top most of the time. He would have gone for legs too which might have been a smart or bad thing depending on the opponent. Phone Post 3.0
3/7/14 10:42 PM
10/13/09
Posts: 2196
Chemmy - Hypothetically speaking, of course, how do you think Frank Shamrock circa 1999 would fare in 2014's Welterweight division?

Top 10? Top 20? Not even a gatekeeper?

What about Sakuraba (2000ish)?

Do you think the game has evolved too much for his skillset at that time or would he be competitive at 170 lbs? Phone Post 3.0

i think Frank just got bored with the UFC, and was frustrated by the lack of money when he was at his peak.

i think if he grew up in modern day MMA, he'd still be a champion.... he really was a WW, fighting a bunch of LHW's, until the end of his career.
3/7/14 11:16 PM
8/18/11
Posts: 4115
simonpe - The sport has evolved too much. It's not a fair comparison
This Phone Post 3.0
3/8/14 12:04 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 7046
HERTSWENIP - Frank was always a submission over position kind of guy. He would be beaten to boring decisions by wrestlers with strong top control. Todays fighters are much more skilled with defending subs and positioning than guys in his era.
Didn't he actually preach, "position over submission"? Phone Post 3.0
3/8/14 12:12 AM
3/6/13
Posts: 1378
Neither would win a fight in the top 10 today Phone Post 3.0
3/8/14 1:46 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 7074
DonFrye_Fan - 
HERTSWENIP - Frank was always a submission over position kind of guy. He would be beaten to boring decisions by wrestlers with strong top control. Todays fighters are much more skilled with defending subs and positioning than guys in his era.
Didn't he actually preach, "position over submission"? Phone Post 3.0

Never saw him say that, but if he did, it never reflected in his performances.
3/8/14 2:26 AM
9/14/13
Posts: 83
1a1 - His takedown defense has always been horrible and his takedowns were never great either. If somehow he was able to correct that he would do ok, otherwise not well at all.

i seem to remember a particular takedown he did against igor zinoviev broke his collarbone knocked him out put him out of competition for life, must have been not great though i meen the way he picked him up in the air and dumped him on his head was definately not great i mean see for yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYvYTvCG0Cw
his td defence was pretty bad though
i'd say he'd be a gatekeeper though, on a similar level to koshcheck i think. Not champ material but you'd be keen to watch his fights
3/8/14 6:07 AM
10/13/12
Posts: 3199
Frank's Kickboxing game in 1999 was INSANE.

Frank vs Condit would have been a war.