UnderGround Forums Changing angles while striking

2/4/13 8:12 AM
Posts: 5525

it doesn't seem to get done much. I just see guys circling each other and sometimes even that is done poorly.

Do your striking coaches work with you on changing angles?


I'm just wondeing what the MMA crowd thinkks of this. I don't watch as much Boxing or even Muay Thai these days. I remember watching boxers at my gym work on changing angles and thinking it was very cool. I see a few MT guys work on it and even fewer MMA guys.


Changing angles on your opponent helps you create openings and makes you harder to hit.

2/4/13 8:17 AM
Posts: 1534
I agree. Some fighters have wisened up to it. Ross pierson for example.
Edited: 2/4/13 9:08 AM
Posts: 5526

lots of views and not many comments so maybe i should expound a little


typically you circle. if you circle to your left you step with your left foot first and then move your right foot so that you get back to your fighting stance. If you circle to the right you start with your right foot. DO NOT CROSS YOUR FEET


angle changes are created by more explosive movements and pivots. (assuming an orthodox stance) for example step your left foot a little farther than you would to circle and then pivot on your left foot. your right foot will slide around until you are facing your oppinent at a 45 degree angle (or even a 90 degree angle) and your opponent is facing where you were. this is easily added to a bob and weave drill. bob under your opponent's hook and pivot out. now you have a superior attack angle.

if you bob under to the right you will kick your right foot out as you bob under and then slide your left foot into position. 

pivoting to the side of your lead foot is easier than to the side of your rear foot.


2/4/13 9:50 AM
Posts: 5527

you have a good point. i use the boxing angle change as an example and to hopefully prime discusion. there are more intricate Muay Thai and MMA angle changes. they all work off the same principle.


Anthony Pettis' use of the cage is an example of intricate angle change

2/4/13 10:32 AM
Posts: 3752
Simple answer: It's hard.

Hard to learn and hard to teach. Also many fighters have bought into this squared hip MMA stance that makes sprawling easier.

It's the same with the ground game. As soon as you're taken down you should create angles and pop to one hip either to attack, sweep, or get up. Top level grapplers do this but most just go to closed guard basically conceding the round because they either want to mitigate the punch damage they could take or they don't train the ground enough for this to be a natural reaction. Phone Post
2/4/13 11:08 AM
Posts: 5528

agreed, it's not easy. I really like your ground game comparrison.

I think it is something that every martial artist, fighter or not, should be exposed to. you go to a boxing gym and you see young kids working on it so it isn't complicated it just takes time and training.


i'd really like to hear from people about their training experiences.

Edited: 2/4/13 11:09 AM
Posts: 5529

(double post)

2/4/13 11:22 AM
Posts: 1305

Angles are something that takes years to develop. Nobody likes to work on the small things like footwork and angles because they are hard and tedious when it is so much easier just hitting stuff. 

2/4/13 11:46 AM
Posts: 11103
Aldo use alot of good angles on Frankie to counter or just get out of the way Phone Post
2/4/13 11:50 AM
Posts: 6481
Guida changes angles none stop....
2/4/13 11:50 AM
Posts: 6482
Anderson SIlva does this well
2/4/13 1:00 PM
Posts: 5530
wreckker -  Aldo use alot of good angles on Frankie to counter or just get out of the way Phone Post

he has great footwork as does Silva


it seems the consensus is that it takes a long time to get good at angle changing. does this mean that most people aren't learning/practicing it?

2/4/13 1:27 PM
Posts: 3754
Chaos in China -
wreckker -  Aldo use alot of good angles on Frankie to counter or just get out of the way Phone Post

he has great footwork as does Silva


it seems the consensus is that it takes a long time to get good at angle changing. does this mean that most people aren't learning/practicing it?

Part of the issue is that fighters don't have time to develop a lot if skills.

Lets do the math: you can make it to the UFC with ten fights and you're 25 years old and your base is wrestling. If you wrestled in college all four years, you probably didn't even own a pair of boxing gloves until you were 22. That's three years of striking training before making it to the largest promotion in the sport. You're basically a four stripe blue belt in striking assuming you are: being trained by an expert striking coach, you are training striking daily, and you have mentally embraced striking as something more than just a tool to setup takedowns.

That's a lot of assumptions for a blue belt. Phone Post
2/4/13 1:58 PM
Posts: 5531

ok. do we agree that changing angles is an important skill?

if yes then we should be teaching it from the begining. This would be ideal. When you have established in your mind what is and what isn't part of your striking technique it is very hard to change. 


if at least a good foundation is laid it will be easier to add on. have it in your plans to introduce to your students as they advance built on the fundamentals of good footwork.


I thought Alan Belcher's footwork in his last match was pretty poor. I was very surprised by it because in the past  his striking and footwork seemed sound.

2/4/13 2:00 PM
Posts: 4173
I think one of the best examples I've seen recently was Aldo/Florian. Aldo was changing angles constantly and caught Florian with a couple of really good shots that Kenny never saw coming. Phone Post
2/5/13 5:22 PM
Posts: 5536

partially related to this topic I have decided to relaunch KineticMuayThai.com

I will gradually be adding training videos, tips, etc. 


back on topic, since many more people have read this thread than have posted in it: Are there questions about angles, movement, footwork? This forum can be a great place for discussing and learning. You know after you've been calle a KKM faygot

2/5/13 10:08 PM
Posts: 4240
Sub, I like technique threads Phone Post
2/6/13 12:06 AM
Posts: 11107
It's not practiced enough

Duane ludwig changed his angle just a bit before he got fastest ko in ufc history

It's not taught enough

Movement and footwork is so important but guys still take too big of steps when moving

Look at Aldo vs Frankie at times he moved mere inches to stay in counter range

If you take small quick steps you stay balanced and are ready to attack or defend

Lots to learn in Mma .....

Footwork and angles don't get enough attention with most guys Phone Post
2/6/13 1:16 AM
Posts: 477
This! Footwork is hard and takes tons of repetition. Sub'ed for tech thread. Phone Post
2/6/13 1:43 AM
Posts: 11123
great thread. sub and VTFU
2/6/13 2:15 AM
Posts: 1494
Subway Sammich. Phone Post
2/6/13 4:17 AM
Posts: 1134
I agree; footwork takes a lot of discipline and repetition to become proficient. It's much too tedious and boring for most people to spend time on, which they often feel is better spent dyeing their faux hawk and working on ring entrances. HAHA

I love technique threads as well; great idea!
2/6/13 5:02 AM
Posts: 212669


2/6/13 6:23 AM
Posts: 8416
wreckker -  Aldo use alot of good angles on Frankie to counter or just get out of the way Phone Post

As does Frankie.

It's a beautiful thing watching Frankie work stand-up. So fast and so fluid, no matter how many shots he takes throughout the fight.

2/6/13 6:25 AM
Posts: 2520
Footwork sucks to train.

But show me a Great fighter be it MMA, Boxing or Muay Thai and they all have great footwork.