UnderGround Forums Do you think Blood Doping happens in MMA?

1/8/13 3:22 PM
6/16/12
Posts: 1211
Do you think Blood Doping happens or could become more popular in the future in regards to MMA?

From Wikipedia: Blood doping is the practice of boosting the number of red blood cells in the bloodstream in order to enhance athletic performance. Because such blood cells carry oxygen from the lungs to the muscles, a higher concentration in the blood can improve an athlete’s aerobic capacity (VO2 max) and endurance.

I've heard of reports that athletes train at high altitude to increase their red blood cells, then they are having their blood drawn, stored and then replaced when they compete at normal altitude.

As athletes get better and competition becomes harder in MMA, people are alway looking for a edge, do you see Blood Doping as something to look out for in MMA? Phone Post
1/8/13 3:24 PM
6/15/10
Posts: 1706

im almost positive that its happening.

1/8/13 3:29 PM
4/2/08
Posts: 21789

I dont know much about this or the scientific side of it but seems to me if a fighter was to do that, how long does this blood last after reinjected before its back to normal. The athletic commision follows fighter around before the fight so they would have to reinject this blood back into their body before they get to the arena.. Im assuming.

 

1/8/13 3:37 PM
6/16/12
Posts: 1212
RickStorm -

I dont know much about this or the scientific side of it but seems to me if a fighter was to do that, how long does this blood last after reinjected before its back to normal. The athletic commision follows fighter around before the fight so they would have to reinject this blood back into their body before they get to the arena.. Im assuming.

 

To be honest, I don't know. Here is a bit more info

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2012/08/24/f-blood-doping.html Phone Post
1/8/13 3:40 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 22048
It sounds expensive. Phone Post
1/8/13 3:40 PM
6/22/11
Posts: 1031
But is it really illegal though? Injecting red blood cells? Its not exactly natural but how could u possibly test for it? Phone Post
1/8/13 3:42 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 21571
There is a certain UFC champ that bleeds thick dark blood when he cuts.

Just sayin
1/8/13 3:45 PM
1/30/03
Posts: 14889
Yes. Especially in the heavier divisions.

I don't really care because I think everyone is on something, some just hide it better.
1/8/13 3:46 PM
5/28/08
Posts: 10213
I'd be very surprised if it wasn;t happening.

It's expensive but the upper echelon of fighters would have no problem doing it and they cant test for it.
1/8/13 3:48 PM
6/16/12
Posts: 1213
I think it has been banned (but maybe just in cycling), I know a few cyclists have been in trouble for it. From the link below:

"That method wasn't banned until 1986, after the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, where the U.S. cycling team boasted about their use of transfusions."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2012/08/24/f-blood-doping.html Phone Post
1/8/13 3:58 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8536
I heard a rumor that this is how Arthur Ash contracted HIV. It's probably horse shit but the rumor was that in a pinch if the blood doper didn't have an adequate supply of his own blood ready (for various reasons) that the would/could use donor blood...

But like I said its probably horse shit. Phone Post
1/8/13 4:32 PM
6/15/10
Posts: 1708
RickStorm - 

I dont know much about this or the scientific side of it but seems to me if a fighter was to do that, how long does this blood last after reinjected before its back to normal. The athletic commision follows fighter around before the fight so they would have to reinject this blood back into their body before they get to the arena.. Im assuming.

 


The increase in red blood cells can be naturally induced by training at high altitude, so how would there be a test for injecting an athletes own packed red blood cells, as long as they do not exceed the maximum physiologically possible response.

RBC's last for 3 months in the body before they are broken down.

1/8/13 4:45 PM
4/24/12
Posts: 5539

Dude we have multiple fighters saying 80 percent of the roster is on the 'real' juice, the last being Stun Gun. There is nothing that is not being done (to improve performance), EXCEPT RANDOM TESTING.
1/8/13 5:21 PM
6/15/10
Posts: 1709
gooddoc - 
RickStorm - 

I dont know much about this or the scientific side of it but seems to me if a fighter was to do that, how long does this blood last after reinjected before its back to normal. The athletic commision follows fighter around before the fight so they would have to reinject this blood back into their body before they get to the arena.. Im assuming.

 


The increase in red blood cells can be naturally induced by training at high altitude, so how would there be a test for injecting an athletes own packed red blood cells, as long as they do not exceed the maximum physiologically possible response.

RBC's last for 3 months in the body before they are broken down.


For men, standard hematocrit (the proportion of red cells to other stuff) is about 44 to 45 percent. Most testing regulations dictate that competitors will be flagged if hematocrit is above 50 percent. So They aim for 49 and a half percent.

If the amount of red blood cells goes over that 50 percent mark (or whatever the mark is) athletes will add saline or plasma to their system, bringing the proportion back down to acceptable (but still performance-enhancing) levels.

1/8/13 5:27 PM
6/16/12
Posts: 1222
gooddoc -
gooddoc - 
RickStorm - 

I dont know much about this or the scientific side of it but seems to me if a fighter was to do that, how long does this blood last after reinjected before its back to normal. The athletic commision follows fighter around before the fight so they would have to reinject this blood back into their body before they get to the arena.. Im assuming.

 


The increase in red blood cells can be naturally induced by training at high altitude, so how would there be a test for injecting an athletes own packed red blood cells, as long as they do not exceed the maximum physiologically possible response.

RBC's last for 3 months in the body before they are broken down.


For men, standard hematocrit (the proportion of red cells to other stuff) is about 44 to 45 percent. Most testing regulations dictate that competitors will be flagged if hematocrit is above 50 percent. So They aim for 49 and a half percent.

If the amount of red blood cells goes over that 50 percent mark (or whatever the mark is) athletes will add saline or plasma to their system, bringing the proportion back down to acceptable (but still performance-enhancing) levels.

Interesting stuff really Phone Post
1/8/13 5:29 PM
4/2/08
Posts: 21796
gooddoc - 
gooddoc - 
RickStorm - 

I dont know much about this or the scientific side of it but seems to me if a fighter was to do that, how long does this blood last after reinjected before its back to normal. The athletic commision follows fighter around before the fight so they would have to reinject this blood back into their body before they get to the arena.. Im assuming.

 


The increase in red blood cells can be naturally induced by training at high altitude, so how would there be a test for injecting an athletes own packed red blood cells, as long as they do not exceed the maximum physiologically possible response.

RBC's last for 3 months in the body before they are broken down.


For men, standard hematocrit (the proportion of red cells to other stuff) is about 44 to 45 percent. Most testing regulations dictate that competitors will be flagged if hematocrit is above 50 percent. So They aim for 49 and a half percent.

If the amount of red blood cells goes over that 50 percent mark (or whatever the mark is) athletes will add saline or plasma to their system, bringing the proportion back down to acceptable (but still performance-enhancing) levels.


Thanks gooddoc.. pretty interesting stuff

1/8/13 5:58 PM
6/15/10
Posts: 1710
nick diaz nut hugger -  From what I've read, it seems to be a very sophisticated way of cheating. Could you help explain if I'm right or wrong, gooddoc? Phone Post

I don't think it is all that sophisticated, but if done correctly I don't think that there is any way to get caught.

 

1/8/13 6:01 PM
6/15/10
Posts: 1711
The Super Bean -  Do you think Blood Doping happens or could become more popular in the future in regards to MMA?

From Wikipedia: Blood doping is the practice of boosting the number of red blood cells in the bloodstream in order to enhance athletic performance. Because such blood cells carry oxygen from the lungs to the muscles, a higher concentration in the blood can improve an athlete’s aerobic capacity (VO2 max) and endurance.

I've heard of reports that athletes train at high altitude to increase their red blood cells, then they are having their blood drawn, stored and then replaced when they compete at normal altitude.

As athletes get better and competition becomes harder in MMA, people are alway looking for a edge, do you see Blood Doping as something to look out for in MMA? Phone Post

The only thing inaccurate here is that you would need to work out at altitude at all; increased RBC's is all your after  and injecting yourself with your own packed red blood cells is going to help, whether your body created them at altitude or not.

 

1/8/13 6:04 PM
11/28/03
Posts: 59472

yes

1/8/13 6:19 PM
7/11/08
Posts: 4401

About 3 months ago I worked for a professional triathlete who had actually beaten lance in a race before. 

Lance was not allowed to compete in the hawaii iron man and i think is banned from all compitions?

Anyways, they said 100 percent yes lance did blood dope, but that everyone did, so lance was still the best. this is not my opinion at all, just what they guys team told me when I asked about it.  Apparently blood doping in cycling is really bad, or was until this big bust.

1/8/13 6:40 PM
8/7/07
Posts: 897
Cycling is the only sport that measures hematacrit. being over 50 in any other sport comes with no consequences.
1/8/13 6:40 PM
8/27/09
Posts: 419
In the motocross world its heavily used by top tier guys. I think they actually spin the blood up, isolating the red blood cells,then inject before second moto.
1/8/13 6:51 PM
8/30/12
Posts: 394
That and GH without a fucking doubt. I don't know who but its happening for sure. Phone Post
1/8/13 6:52 PM
7/11/08
Posts: 4402
HUMBLED1 - In the motocross world its heavily used by top tier guys. I think they actually spin the blood up, isolating the red blood cells,then inject before second moto.

 did a video for a dr. who provides that service in las vegas.  Kobe bryamt had it done by another dr. in italy or somewhere in europe a few years ago when he had knee surgery.

 

The procedure is where they use your own blood, spin it, isolate the stem cell or plasma rich part of the blood, then heal you with you lol.

 

that is the tag line in the commercial I filmed...."essentially, we heal you, with you"

1/8/13 6:57 PM
10/17/09
Posts: 8168
Gokudamus stole my name - There is a certain UFC champ that bleeds thick dark blood when he cuts.

Just sayin
? Phone Post