UnderGround Forum >> What does Cain's diet look like?

Bisping decisioned my SN -

Kostakio -

gooddoc -

That looks fucking good.

My thoughts as well I would tear that shit up!

Gokudamus stole my name - "Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off."

The vast majority of them have to make weight wich is partially the reason they are jacked. By your logic Anderson at 185 is faster and has better cardio than at 205 because he has more muscle definition when the only difference is that he has to diet and cut water to make 185, everything else is the same

Gokudamus stole my name - "Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off."

The vast majority of them have to make weight wich is partially the reason they are jacked. By your logic Anderson at 185 is faster and has better cardio than at 205 because he has more muscle definition when the only difference is that he has to diet and cut water to make 185, everything else is the same

You said the difference is that aside from cutting water he has to diet, isn't that what we're talking about? Anderson seems to have less fat in his 185 fights than his 205 fights, and I think he performs better like that (can't really say much about cardio since his 205 fights have been over so quickly). 

 I don't really understand your post.

orcus - 

Gokudamus stole my name - "Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off."

The vast majority of them have to make weight wich is partially the reason they are jacked. By your logic Anderson at 185 is faster and has better cardio than at 205 because he has more muscle definition when the only difference is that he has to diet and cut water to make 185, everything else is the same

You said the difference is that aside from cutting water he has to diet, isn't that what we're talking about? Anderson seems to have less fat in his 185 fights than his 205 fights, and I think he performs better like that (can't really say much about cardio since his 205 fights have been over so quickly). 

 I don't really understand your post.

"I was responding to your correlation = causation argument. Just because the majority of top fighters with great cardio happen to be jacked doesnt mean all jacked fighters have great cardio . They are jacked because they have to make weight,"

Every non-HW has to make weight and there are plenty of less jacked fighters among them. They just don't tend to be the ones singled out for having exceptional cardio. Two of the fighters with the best cardio in the sport -- Guida and Edgar -- claim to cut little or no weight and are still very lean.

What about the fighters who clearly perform better and have more gas the leaner they are? Like BJ Penn, for example. All else being equal, won't more conditioning training result in both better conditioning and a leaner physique?

"And so far nobody has added a single credible argument why a guy should cut calories in a grueling sport when he is obviously performing at the level he needs to."

I thought the credible argument was that logically extra weight HAS to slow you down and tire you out more. Good cardio and speed with fat = better cardio and speed without the fat, simply because you have to move less (dead) weight.

Cain was visibly quite gassed from the middle of the first round on. Yes, he did what he had to do, but he probably could have ended the fight, or at least avoided a lot of risk by being more successful with takedowns, if he were able to maintain his pace better.

yellow's Overseer -

KevinMcAllister - The best part about being a HW is you can eat whatever you want.

Or you're lyoto machida or Frankie, who both fight in there natural weight classes and don't have to cut

Does anyone have a link to the Cain/JDS fight?

orcus - 

"how do you know he doesn't take training seriously? he's 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with JDS, 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with Mir, and 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with Werdum. he clearly has cardio, and has enough speed and power to KO plenty of other HW's..."

He lasted in those fights because he can take a beating like no other. He got his ass absolutely brutally kicked in every one of those and if he had the cardio maybe he could have had the gas to land his one big punch which is pretty much the only way he's won any fights in the UFC. I say he doesn't take his training as seriously as he might because he is carrying 50lb of useless fat and his in-fight options seem to boil down to "hope I can land one big punch, otherwise get beaten to a living death for 15 minutes".

"It's not as simple as taking off a 10lb vest."

No one said it's that simple. The analogy was a counter to your statement that carrying a moderate layer of fat doesn't impede performance.

"-as far as the gain in speed, it's not like Cain carries a lot of fat in his limbs...it's mainly his midsection. if he was a sprinter, then i would say it could make him faster at running, but as a fighter, i don't really see it...."

Next time you spar, put 10-20lb in a fanny pack or a backpack worn backwards and see how it goes.

"Long and short of it is, this isn't a beauty pageant, the fat can be functional."

Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off. So given that fact, combined with the money these guys make and the coaches and nutritionists they pay to work for them, I have to assume that in general excess fat isn't considered to be especially functional in MMA. And even the exceptions who aren't as ripped typically appeared to be at their best when they had less fat (Fedor, Penn, Nogueira, Shogun, etc).

orcus - 

"I was responding to your correlation = causation argument. Just because the majority of top fighters with great cardio happen to be jacked doesnt mean all jacked fighters have great cardio . They are jacked because they have to make weight,"

Every non-HW has to make weight and there are plenty of less jacked fighters among them. They just don't tend to be the ones singled out for having exceptional cardio. Two of the fighters with the best cardio in the sport -- Guida and Edgar -- claim to cut little or no weight and are still very lean.

What about the fighters who clearly perform better and have more gas the leaner they are? Like BJ Penn, for example. All else being equal, won't more conditioning training result in both better conditioning and a leaner physique?

"And so far nobody has added a single credible argument why a guy should cut calories in a grueling sport when he is obviously performing at the level he needs to."

I thought the credible argument was that logically extra weight HAS to slow you down and tire you out more. Good cardio and speed with fat = better cardio and speed without the fat, simply because you have to move less (dead) weight.

Cain was visibly quite gassed from the middle of the first round on. Yes, he did what he had to do, but he probably could have ended the fight, or at least avoided a lot of risk by being more successful with takedowns, if he were able to maintain his pace better.

rosario00 -  For someone as conditioned and hard working as him to have so much flab its only obvious that he isn't eating well.. I know the role that genetics play in how shredded you can get, but that doesn't mean he can't at least have a flat stomach. What is he doing?

Ministry of Truth -

rosario00 -  For someone as conditioned and hard working as him to have so much flab its only obvious that he isn't eating well.. I know the role that genetics play in how shredded you can get, but that doesn't mean he can't at least have a flat stomach. What is he doing?

Perhaps you should learn more about genetics. His incredible cardio is a genetic gift, just as his body is a reflective of his genetics as well.

Look at someone like Cole Konrad. He was a great wrestler and fighter, with great conditioning as well, yet nothing could change his physique.

BadrMilk - 

Ministry of Truth -

rosario00 -  For someone as conditioned and hard working as him to have so much flab its only obvious that he isn't eating well.. I know the role that genetics play in how shredded you can get, but that doesn't mean he can't at least have a flat stomach. What is he doing?

Perhaps you should learn more about genetics. His incredible cardio is a genetic gift, just as his body is a reflective of his genetics as well.

Look at someone like Cole Konrad. He was a great wrestler and fighter, with great conditioning as well, yet nothing could change his physique.

Also look at Baroni, great physique but gasses walking his dog.

" I agree with you that Cain SHOULD look leaner, but he's not, be it his genetics or diet or both, and he has little reason to change that since it's been working for him thus far."

Everything works until it doesn't. Why wait until it doesn't? If JDS had KHTFO in one of the last two rounds when Cain's takedowns were sloppy failures, would anyone think Cain with a bit more speed and gas would have been a good idea?

"Cain and JDS were HWs fighting at a LW pace."

Not even close. It wasn't even as good a pace as Cormier vs Barnett or Barnett vs Nogueira. Technique went completely out the window for both guys in the second round and stayed gone, with both guys wheezing through their mouths. Compare that to something like Benson vs Pettis or Benson vs Edgar or GSP vs Fitch or many many other fights.

"And no, fat isn't always dead weight. As an example, if you are on top in the turtle position with an over-under, would you use more or less energy holding your opponent down the more fat you had?"

If it's not helping you move, it's dead. I agree with you that it can be functional as well; I said in an earlier post that I think it can help put more weight into punches, into smothering guys, and make it harder to be muscled around. But that doesn't change my thinking that it logically HAS to hurt cardio and speed.

"Is he a sprinter? Or a marathon runner? MMA consists of more than speed/cardio, he also requires a lot of power/strength, especially as a HW."

As I said, there are tradeoffs for sure. 

"Having extra fat actually helps with moving more weight, thats why all the HW olympic lifters are chubby bastards while the smaller guys are all jacked."

Is it that the fat actively helps them, or that watching their diets would restrict maximal muscle/strength growth? Their goal is to lift the most weight possible, so they want to build as much muscle as possible -- and you can't do that while worrying about being lean. And since they don't need to move their own bodyweight or worry about cardio, why should they? They literally don't have to worry about anything but moving a barbell. If gaining 60lb, much of it fat but some of it muscle, lets you lift an extra kilo, why not go for it? It could be the difference between first and second place.

Would Cain minus 10-15lb of fat -- but retaining all his muscle -- really have less strength than current Cain? He's obviously not on some growth program and maxing out his muscle.

"And regardless of how "visibly gassed" you think he was, he was still in much better shape than a lean muscular Junior Dos Santos who was huffing and puffing even before he got whacked by that overhand"

I'm not saying he has bad cardio, although it did not look great in that specific fight. I'm saying carrying extra fat is not doing anyone any favors in terms of cardio and speed, that's it. As for it not being a footrace, no, but Cain is routinely fighting larger, stronger, harder-hitting guys, and speed is almost always the best answer in that situation (see: Frankie Edgar). I don't see his 15lb of fat helping him contest strength in a tie-up with Overeem, but having more speed and better cardio certainly could.

hypoxia - I might add that I would probably get ignored alot if I didn't have a shredded abs pic on POF. How'd I get it? Muay Thai, whey protein and frijoles con muthahfucking arroz.

True and cool story.