UnderGround Forum >> Jones tells Cerrone: "You don't make $1M to fight"

Sugar Dick -

He's lucky cowboy didn't knock him the fuck out

Death Beast - 

Lazer MMA - 

Death Beast - 

Lazer MMA - 

Death Beast - I just wish Jones would say what, IMO, is the real reason for turning down the fight with Sonnen.
From the moment Sonnen announced a move up to LHW, Jones knew that they'd meet eventually since it looked like they were going to give Sonnen a fast track to a title shot. That's BY FAR the biggest money fight for Jones at this point. Why should he throw away that much money by taking the fight on short notice with no marketing behind it? There's literally no other big money fight for him at LHW, not Hendo, not Gus, not anyone he's already beaten.

Even Dana said on the call the real reason. The young man was poorly advised. Dana called Jackson "a sport killer" on the call.

So his real reason was he was poorly advised? Because his other 'real' reason was that Sonnen didn't deserve a shot at him because JBJ thought he was racist and nowhere near #1 contender status but that didn't stop him from fighting Belfort or now fighting Sonnen anyway. The only difference is now he'll make a SHITLOAD of money with the hype behind it instead of on 8 days notice.
I'm sure if another takedown type guy wanted that fight instead of Belfort he would have been fine with it. He just didn't want to blow the one big money 205 fight available on short notice. Again just my opinion but I think it makes more sense than "He got bad advice from Greg Jackson and didn't want to fight a middleweight on short notice".
Obviously he couldn't just come out and say he'd rather fight Chael with proper hype or he'd sound greedy as shit.

Do you realize how stupid that is. He did not know he'd ever have to fight Sonnen at the time he refused to fight him at 151.

You're pulling crap out your ass. Simple as that.

He wanted more $$ by fighting him latter. LMFAO

He said a week earlier on radio show he'd fight Sonnen by the way.

Wow the UG LOL

I'm pulling it out of my ass that he knew he could just fight sonnen at a later date huh? My ass must be full of awesome then because that's exactly what he's doing dipshit.

Yeah he'd said he'd fight him if he earned his shot a week earlier. Then one of the first excuses out of his mouth was he didn't respect Sonnen and he was a racist so he didn't want to give him a shot undeservedly. But he's sure as shit doing that now isn't he? WTF changed? Other than now they'll have proper hype and he'll get paid alot more with the extra PPV buys.

Oh but he didn't say that so that can't possibly be the reason, got it....

Yeah you're right, the UG is full of fucktards

"He skipped Sonnen, took a fight with Belfort that did much worse on PPV and he made less money."

Did worse than what? UFC 152 was a short notice joke match up that got very little promotion, and it was still the  fifth best selling card of the year if you believe the estimates. 

Tell me that you're seriuosly not one of these fucking idiots who thinks that Chael can guarantee 700,000+ buys even on one week's notice in spite of the fact that he has no record of being a headline draw on his own.

Sugar Dick - 

octowussy - 

Sugar Dick -

He's lucky cowboy didn't knock him the fuck out

Yes, surely The Cowboy who was humiliated by Nate Diaz would be able to do what the best light heavyweights on the planet right now could not.

In the streets it's a different story

You really think that Jones couldn't toss Cerrone around like ragdoll and break his neck with his bare hands without breaking a sweat in a "street fight"?

SinCityHustler - 

WoodenPupa - 

SinCityHustler - 

thatsme - 

WoodenPupa - "besides cerrone, which teammates have said something? please show me sources as well."

Good point, and also I'm wondering which MMA champions have talked crap about Jones' decision. As far as I know, nobody who gets a PPV cut from their fights criticized him. I don't even think anybody who regularly gets 6-figures did, champ or not.

You correct in everything you just said. In fact, Machida and Rua both declined to fight Jones when Dana called them to replace Sonnen.

Guess what their reason was? Yep the same as Jones. But here we are six months later and the same morons are still condemning Jones for crap the two former Champions did the same week.

Not the same at all.  Machida and Rua declined to take a short notice,fight against the toughest fighter in the world at 205 lbs., a guy who had destroyed both of them in less than 5 combined rounds.  

Jones refused to fight a guy coming up from a lower weight class, that had no training camp, and has had little success in the UFC at 205 to speak of in his career.  

The same thing would be if Rua and Machida had turned down a fight against an Okami or Marquart type, who was going to have 8 days notice for the fight, while they on the other hand they were going to be 2 months into their camp.  

VERY different scenarios, but here 6 months later, "the same morons" still can't see this.  

So Jones was supposed to show his valiance and warrior spirit by fighting a guy who had little chance against him?

Cerrone's point, and the issue that sparked this thread, is that a "real" warrior never calculates consequences. He's asked to fight, whoever, whenever. That Machida and Rua turned the fight down based on Jones being "the toughest fighter in the world" should only add to Cerrone's point---they should, by that POV, have taken the fight the instant it was offered.

But instead Machida and Rua cited lack of notice and therefore preparation time. Do you think Chael sucks so bad that Jones needs NO preparation against him?

And what do say about the fact that Chael and Jones sell PPV's on VERY different premises, Chael's by spectacular trash talking and dramatic results (usually him losing), Jones by simply being a winner? Chael just has to put on a show; Jones has to WIN.

Warrior spirit?  Dude this is MMA, there is no warrior spirit to speak of.  These guys refuse to fight unless they have months and months to come up with a tactic to avoid losing.  Jones and his camp cited exactly that reason for not taking the fight.  Too risky, they might lose.  And no Sonnen doesn't suck so bad, he is actually a very good fighter, one of the best in the world in fact, at 185 pounds.  Did you quote the worng post or are you seriously confused that I made a point of showing the situation with Jones being different than that of Machida and Rua?  

Macedawgg - 

He didn't "throw away" a bunch of money--

He believes he put himself in a position to maximize his earnings--over his career.  Jones will have many more paydays.

D241 - 

There's not a singler person who has yet to answer this question, and I'll ask it again.

 

'WHAT, did Jon Jones GAIN by NOT accepting the fight against Chael at 151?

 

He lost respect from fans and fighters, and his employers.

He lost a clear advantage when it comes to preparation. He could've fought Chael when Chael wasn't preparing for a lhw title fight. Now, he's still fighting Chael, except Chael has a full training camp to prepare for Jon.

As far as money goes, had he fought Chael at 151, it's debatable if he would make the same money as when he fights Chael after Tuf is over. But lets say Jones fighting Chael later instead of 151 on short notice gives 200-300k extra ppv buys(that's being extremely generous), Jones STILL could've fought for less money at 151, AND STILL take a fight the same time he's scheduled to fight Chael, and for just as much if not more money.

 

He lost respect from fans, friends, employers.

He lost a preparation advantage.

He lost a money opportunity by fighting the same guy once instead of fighting him at 151, then fighting the next guy.

 

WHAT-DID-HE-GAIN?

 

 

Phisher - 

JeffersonDArcyChoke -  Jon's reasoning by saying "you don't make a million to fight" is actually saying it's MORE important the more you earn.

Meaning, every move I make is way bigger than yours when you are the champ and making that kind of money.

If Cerrone loses, he loses not much but a fight.

If Jones loses, he loses it all.

THAT is what Jones was saying and everyone is reading into it otherwise.

I dislike Jones but he wasn't being a dick here.

Watch it partner. This is extreme Jones nuthuggery. A true warrior cares not for material things or the state of his "career." The fact is that the coward Jones violated the esteemed budo code of the noble art of pink mohawks and tribal tattoos. Ths ignominy will never be lived down.

George Hill - Macedawgg

Okay, in theory you have an argument.

In hindsight you have to now admit you're wrong.

He skipped Sonnen, took a fight with Belfort that did much worse on PPV and he made less money.

He got injured against Belfort, causing him to miss one cycle of a fight with a top contender he'd have had probably on the Dec. 29 show which is a plum date for PPV historically.

Yeah, he'll make good money with Sonnen but it's a higher risk fight, fighting a guy who has trained for you vs. a guy coming off the couch and when you are in top shape.

So you have a theoretical good point, but with the value of what ended up happening, the best you can say is with hindsight, you're dead wrong.

No, this is not correct. 

You keep looking at this like its the equivalent of a shirt off the rack.  It is not--nothing like it.

Jones, should he keep winning, will be FAR more valuable and marketable for the mere fact that he has never lost.  The Jones Brand (and that is what he is aiming for)--will increase in value far more rapidly if he retains the belt with no losses moving forward. 

Jones still got his payday--he delayed it by a few months, and took the least amount of risk.  That is wise--and protecting his investment, in his career. 

WoodenPupa - 

Macedawgg - 

He didn't "throw away" a bunch of money--

He believes he put himself in a position to maximize his earnings--over his career.  Jones will have many more paydays.

Preach on, and vtfu.

When are people going to understand the thrust of your message (which you've asserted longer than anyone to my knowledge) about our sport?

The point---the ENTIRE point---is as you said "He BELIEVES he put himself in a position to maximize his earnings--over his career." His belief may or may not be wrong---but his decision was RATIONAL, that is, informed by FACTS (many of which we probably don't know) and all fighters subscribe to the virtues of choice calculus! And the more $$ at stake, the more calculations are weighed!

Why is that people insist budo emanate into business contracts?? That's the biggest SUCKER rationale I've ever heard. Why is it that a fighter is allowed only to fight his ass off in the cage, but never at the negotiating table?

How is it that people don't understand that applying MAXIMUM counter-leverage is the only way to ensure fairness in this business? I emphasize the term ENSURE. Some contracts are fair; some fighters are mysteriously treated like gold, others like charcoal. But it should all be left to the dice roll of budo I guess! Fighters should never try to ensure anything! That's cowardly after all!

WP provides all the detail--exactly right.

This is not Cerrone's first "deviation" from the Jackson's "party line," as he has been an outspoken defender of Rashad.

And speaking of Rashad, what if he does move down to 185 after the Lil Nog fight - plausible if he wins since in that case he will have "gone out a winner" at 205, and plausible if he loses since in that case he obviously has no future at 205?

You're Greg Jackson.  Your "meal tickets" at middleweight are Derek Brunson and Buddy Roberts.  Don't you try and get Rashad to come back?

And if so, Cerrone's support for the move could come in mighty handy.

If I'm JBJ, I might seriously ask Cerrone to leave the gym while I was there. . .

To publicly deride JBJ does not promote his well-being.

Macedawgg - 

If I'm JBJ, I might seriously ask Cerrone to leave the gym while I was there. . .

To publicly deride JBJ does not promote his well-being.

And I suppose we get one guess as to where Cerrone would train if that were to happen.

"This is not Cerrone's first "deviation" from the Jackson's "party line," as he has been an outspoken defender of Rashad."

You guys just make shit up. There is no Jackson "party line" on Rashad. The only fighter in the camp that had a beef with him was Jones. GJ never publicly badmouthed Rashad even after all of the shit that Rashad talked out him.

Atkinson - 

WoodenPupa -

SinCityHustler - 

WoodenPupa - 

SinCityHustler - 

thatsme - 

WoodenPupa - "besides cerrone, which teammates have said something? please show me sources as well."

Good point, and also I'm wondering which MMA champions have talked crap about Jones' decision. As far as I know, nobody who gets a PPV cut from their fights criticized him. I don't even think anybody who regularly gets 6-figures did, champ or not.

You correct in everything you just said. In fact, Machida and Rua both declined to fight Jones when Dana called them to replace Sonnen.

Guess what their reason was? Yep the same as Jones. But here we are six months later and the same morons are still condemning Jones for crap the two former Champions did the same week.

Not the same at all.  Machida and Rua declined to take a short notice,fight against the toughest fighter in the world at 205 lbs., a guy who had destroyed both of them in less than 5 combined rounds.  

Jones refused to fight a guy coming up from a lower weight class, that had no training camp, and has had little success in the UFC at 205 to speak of in his career.  

The same thing would be if Rua and Machida had turned down a fight against an Okami or Marquart type, who was going to have 8 days notice for the fight, while they on the other hand they were going to be 2 months into their camp.  

VERY different scenarios, but here 6 months later, "the same morons" still can't see this.  

So Jones was supposed to show his valiance and warrior spirit by fighting a guy who had little chance against him?

Cerrone's point, and the issue that sparked this thread, is that a "real" warrior never calculates consequences. He's asked to fight, whoever, whenever. That Machida and Rua turned the fight down based on Jones being "the toughest fighter in the world" should only add to Cerrone's point---they should, by that POV, have taken the fight the instant it was offered.

But instead Machida and Rua cited lack of notice and therefore preparation time. Do you think Chael sucks so bad that Jones needs NO preparation against him?

And what do say about the fact that Chael and Jones sell PPV's on VERY different premises, Chael's by spectacular trash talking and dramatic results (usually him losing), Jones by simply being a winner? Chael just has to put on a show; Jones has to WIN.

Warrior spirit?  Dude this is MMA, there is no warrior spirit to speak of.  These guys refuse to fight unless they have months and months to come up with a tactic to avoid losing.  Jones and his camp cited exactly that reason for not taking the fight.  Too risky, they might lose.  And no Sonnen doesn't suck so bad, he is actually a very good fighter, one of the best in the world in fact, at 185 pounds.  Did you quote the worng post or are you seriously confused that I made a point of showing the situation with Jones being different than that of Machida and Rua?  

"No warrior spirit to speak of" eh? Spoken like a true Roman emperor! Cowardly training camps, scared little rat-like preparations! How dare they assess risk, my slaves---what do they think they have---a future??? The future is NOW *pounds the table with gnashed teeth*

I'm not seriously confused about anything. You responded to a post which stated "Machida and Rua both declined to fight Jones when Dana called them to replace Sonnen. Guess what their reason was? Yep the same as Jones."

You replied that these scenarios were in fact different. Your reason for stating so was that Chael is smaller, unsuccessful at 205 and was unprepared to boot; whereas Jones is "the toughest fighter in the world at 205,"

Therefore you differentiate between levels of opponent, and strongly imply that against the lower level, a champion like Jones needn't prepare. Either that, or you think (as many seem to) that Jones' preparation for Henderson should have sufficed as, and instantly converted into, preparation for Chael the moment the fight was proposed.

Therefore you make it sound as if Shogun/Machida's decisions to not fight Jones were the product of sound reasoning, whereas Jones' decision to not fight Chael was the product of cowardice.

But you kick off your entire reply to me by saying "Dude this is MMA, there is no warrior spirit to speak of." So nobody has warrior spirit, and yet there are at least two kinds of circumstances which are radically different in your mind, one of which causes Shogun's/Machida's decision understandable, but Jones' to be cowardly?

Very well said Sir

Lazer MMA - Great come back, at least it was said with all the facts allow you to say! = nothing

Lazer MMA - 

Death Beast - 

Lazer MMA - 

Death Beast - 

Lazer MMA - 

Death Beast - I just wish Jones would say what, IMO, is the real reason for turning down the fight with Sonnen.
From the moment Sonnen announced a move up to LHW, Jones knew that they'd meet eventually since it looked like they were going to give Sonnen a fast track to a title shot. That's BY FAR the biggest money fight for Jones at this point. Why should he throw away that much money by taking the fight on short notice with no marketing behind it? There's literally no other big money fight for him at LHW, not Hendo, not Gus, not anyone he's already beaten.

Even Dana said on the call the real reason. The young man was poorly advised. Dana called Jackson "a sport killer" on the call.

So his real reason was he was poorly advised? Because his other 'real' reason was that Sonnen didn't deserve a shot at him because JBJ thought he was racist and nowhere near #1 contender status but that didn't stop him from fighting Belfort or now fighting Sonnen anyway. The only difference is now he'll make a SHITLOAD of money with the hype behind it instead of on 8 days notice.
I'm sure if another takedown type guy wanted that fight instead of Belfort he would have been fine with it. He just didn't want to blow the one big money 205 fight available on short notice. Again just my opinion but I think it makes more sense than "He got bad advice from Greg Jackson and didn't want to fight a middleweight on short notice".
Obviously he couldn't just come out and say he'd rather fight Chael with proper hype or he'd sound greedy as shit.

Do you realize how stupid that is. He did not know he'd ever have to fight Sonnen at the time he refused to fight him at 151.

You're pulling crap out your ass. Simple as that.

He wanted more $$ by fighting him latter. LMFAO

He said a week earlier on radio show he'd fight Sonnen by the way.

Wow the UG LOL

I'm pulling it out of my ass that he knew he could just fight sonnen at a later date huh? My ass must be full of awesome then because that's exactly what he's doing dipshit.

Yeah he'd said he'd fight him if he earned his shot a week earlier. Then one of the first excuses out of his mouth was he didn't respect Sonnen and he was a racist so he didn't want to give him a shot undeservedly. But he's sure as shit doing that now isn't he? WTF changed? Other than now they'll have proper hype and he'll get paid alot more with the extra PPV buys.

Oh but he didn't say that so that can't possibly be the reason, got it....

Yeah you're right, the UG is full of fucktards

Um, yea he knew by 151 they'd need him and Sonnen for TUF and Sonnen would not fight before April. Sure why should't he know that! He also knew that Bones would injured and not be able to fight Hendo in Feb (super bowl weekend) which would lead to the April fight and TUF opening too! DERP


Likewise he said he'd fight Sonnen a week before he declined the fight on a radio show and there were no conditions at all, that is just another fantasy of yours too

Death Beast - 

Lazer MMA - Great come back, at least it was said with all the facts allow you to say! = nothing

Oh I'm sorry I didn't wake up and roll over to post like you did so that means I have no comeback.
You didn't say shit worth replying to anyway, but I'll do my best.
I put my own hypothesis out there regarding Jones wanting to wait to fight Chael so he could get the most money for that fight. It didn't have to be after TUF or anything. All I said was that it made more sense to Jones financially to wait and fight him with the proper promotion.
You turned it into 'OMG SO EVERYONE KNEW THE FUTURE RIGHT?!'
Stop foaming at the mouth over forum posts and read what I put. It's just my own perspective. If you just want to see your own ignorant opinion all day make an offline forum and post/reply to yourself all day.