UnderGround Forum >> Guida vs Hioki: Robbery of the Year candidate

Wasa-B -

caseharts - 

MdGeist -

Pork Sword - 

This problem will not go away until full guard is considered a neutral position like it should be. If you get a takedown great but you need to do something with it besides eating elbows and fighting off chokes.

 

I totally agree.

I don't think it will happen over night but in the next few years, hopefully were going to see more judges that actually have BJJ/grappling backgrounds that can recognize the significance of an offensive guard and weigh certain strikes/sub. attempts from guard/half-guard equally to comparable offensive techniques from top-control.

Guard is not a neutral position. The guy on top is winning for sure if the bottom guy isn't going for subs constantly or sweeps. I thought clay was losing but I knew how judges would react.

Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat.

What on earth does Lamas GNPing the living death out of Koch on top have to do with Hioki making Clay hang on for dear life from the bottom?

Guard IS a neutral position. Its up to either to put their offense/control/etc from there. Clay may have "controlled" more of the time but was also in sub attempts (fight finishing attempts) and also had to defense sweeps, GNP from guard where he landed hardly any GNP himself, only got half guard once which was lost and which he did nothing with.

Wasa-B - People, dont overlook the fact that Hioki lost a decision to Lamas spending lots of time on top but being caught in a couple guillotine attempts.

Again, i think Lamas rightfully won but its so ironic how one of the count on one hand times the UFC judges give the bottom guy the nod, its the same guy they screw next fight when he had multiple sub attempts throughout the fight from the bottom.

caseharts -

Wasa-B -

caseharts - 

MdGeist -

Pork Sword - 

This problem will not go away until full guard is considered a neutral position like it should be. If you get a takedown great but you need to do something with it besides eating elbows and fighting off chokes.

 

I totally agree.

I don't think it will happen over night but in the next few years, hopefully were going to see more judges that actually have BJJ/grappling backgrounds that can recognize the significance of an offensive guard and weigh certain strikes/sub. attempts from guard/half-guard equally to comparable offensive techniques from top-control.

Guard is not a neutral position. The guy on top is winning for sure if the bottom guy isn't going for subs constantly or sweeps. I thought clay was losing but I knew how judges would react.

Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat.

What on earth does Lamas GNPing the living death out of Koch on top have to do with Hioki making Clay hang on for dear life from the bottom?

Guard IS a neutral position. Its up to either to put their offense/control/etc from there. Clay may have "controlled" more of the time but was also in sub attempts (fight finishing attempts) and also had to defense sweeps, GNP from guard where he landed hardly any GNP himself, only got half guard once which was lost and which he did nothing with.

I don't agree. Guard is not neutral to me. Guard favors the top guy unless we see what hioki did to clay.

Gokudamus stole my name - "Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat."

You shouldnt win fights based on what you hypothetically COULD be doing. You should win based on what you actually are doing. And in Guidas case, jack and shit

By your logic, an overhand right hitting air should be scoring more than a jab actually hitting the opponent because it "could" KO the opponent

caseharts - 

Gokudamus stole my name - "Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat."

You shouldnt win fights based on what you hypothetically COULD be doing. You should win based on what you actually are doing. And in Guidas case, jack and shit

By your logic, an overhand right hitting air should be scoring more than a jab actually hitting the opponent because it "could" KO the opponent

No. When all is equal the guy on top is winning. But if a guy is throwing up subs and hiting sweeps then ya hes winning. If neither are advancing then top guy has a slight edge imo

caseharts - 

Gokudamus stole my name - "Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat."

You shouldnt win fights based on what you hypothetically COULD be doing. You should win based on what you actually are doing. And in Guidas case, jack and shit

By your logic, an overhand right hitting air should be scoring more than a jab actually hitting the opponent because it "could" KO the opponent

No. When all is equal the guy on top is winning. But if a guy is throwing up subs and hiting sweeps then ya hes winning. If neither are advancing then top guy has a slight edge imo

Gokudamus stole my name - "Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat."

You shouldnt win fights based on what you hypothetically COULD be doing. You should win based on what you actually are doing. And in Guidas case, jack and shit

By your logic, an overhand right hitting air should be scoring more than a jab actually hitting the opponent because it "could" KO the opponent

Wasa-B -

Gokudamus stole my name - "Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat."

You shouldnt win fights based on what you hypothetically COULD be doing. You should win based on what you actually are doing. And in Guidas case, jack and shit

By your logic, an overhand right hitting air should be scoring more than a jab actually hitting the opponent because it "could" KO the opponent

"Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat."

Sorry dude, but this is ridiculous. What Lamas did was connect with bombs. What Hioki did was lock Clay's arm in kimura and isolate it to put him in real danger of a submission.

What do both cases have in common? Both guys did something in reality and not theory. GSMN is absolutely right there as well. Why even fight then if so and so theoretically should win?

TDogg926 - Takedowns. My friend. Takedowns.

caseharts - 

Wasa-B -

Gokudamus stole my name - "Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat."

You shouldnt win fights based on what you hypothetically COULD be doing. You should win based on what you actually are doing. And in Guidas case, jack and shit

By your logic, an overhand right hitting air should be scoring more than a jab actually hitting the opponent because it "could" KO the opponent

"Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat."

Sorry dude, but this is ridiculous. What Lamas did was connect with bombs. What Hioki did was lock Clay's arm in kimura and isolate it to put him in real danger of a submission.

What do both cases have in common? Both guys did something in reality and not theory. GSMN is absolutely right there as well. Why even fight then if so and so theoretically should win?

Guys. Im not referencing clay and hiokis fight I'm staying in my opinion when all is equal the top guy is winning.

caseharts - 

Wasa-B -

caseharts - 

MdGeist -

Pork Sword - 

This problem will not go away until full guard is considered a neutral position like it should be. If you get a takedown great but you need to do something with it besides eating elbows and fighting off chokes.

 

I totally agree.

I don't think it will happen over night but in the next few years, hopefully were going to see more judges that actually have BJJ/grappling backgrounds that can recognize the significance of an offensive guard and weigh certain strikes/sub. attempts from guard/half-guard equally to comparable offensive techniques from top-control.

Guard is not a neutral position. The guy on top is winning for sure if the bottom guy isn't going for subs constantly or sweeps. I thought clay was losing but I knew how judges would react.

Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat.

What on earth does Lamas GNPing the living death out of Koch on top have to do with Hioki making Clay hang on for dear life from the bottom?

Guard IS a neutral position. Its up to either to put their offense/control/etc from there. Clay may have "controlled" more of the time but was also in sub attempts (fight finishing attempts) and also had to defense sweeps, GNP from guard where he landed hardly any GNP himself, only got half guard once which was lost and which he did nothing with.

I don't agree. Guard is not neutral to me. Guard favors the top guy unless we see what hioki did to clay.

myjawhurts - 

TDogg926 - Takedowns. My friend. Takedowns.

Even rampage was thinking about takedowns!

Soul Gravy - 

caseharts - 

Wasa-B -

caseharts - 

MdGeist -

Pork Sword - 

This problem will not go away until full guard is considered a neutral position like it should be. If you get a takedown great but you need to do something with it besides eating elbows and fighting off chokes.

 

I totally agree.

I don't think it will happen over night but in the next few years, hopefully were going to see more judges that actually have BJJ/grappling backgrounds that can recognize the significance of an offensive guard and weigh certain strikes/sub. attempts from guard/half-guard equally to comparable offensive techniques from top-control.

Guard is not a neutral position. The guy on top is winning for sure if the bottom guy isn't going for subs constantly or sweeps. I thought clay was losing but I knew how judges would react.

Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat.

What on earth does Lamas GNPing the living death out of Koch on top have to do with Hioki making Clay hang on for dear life from the bottom?

Guard IS a neutral position. Its up to either to put their offense/control/etc from there. Clay may have "controlled" more of the time but was also in sub attempts (fight finishing attempts) and also had to defense sweeps, GNP from guard where he landed hardly any GNP himself, only got half guard once which was lost and which he did nothing with.

I don't agree. Guard is not neutral to me. Guard favors the top guy unless we see what hioki did to clay.

Have you ever even been in someone's guard?

Wasa-B - Hate to ask caseharts but have you traned at all in MMA or any type of grappling? Im just finding it hard to believe that anyone has rolled would think if you're not doing anything from top position in full guard, you still have the advantage.

Soul Gravy -

caseharts - 

Wasa-B -

caseharts - 

MdGeist -

Pork Sword - 

This problem will not go away until full guard is considered a neutral position like it should be. If you get a takedown great but you need to do something with it besides eating elbows and fighting off chokes.

 

I totally agree.

I don't think it will happen over night but in the next few years, hopefully were going to see more judges that actually have BJJ/grappling backgrounds that can recognize the significance of an offensive guard and weigh certain strikes/sub. attempts from guard/half-guard equally to comparable offensive techniques from top-control.

Guard is not a neutral position. The guy on top is winning for sure if the bottom guy isn't going for subs constantly or sweeps. I thought clay was losing but I knew how judges would react.

Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat.

What on earth does Lamas GNPing the living death out of Koch on top have to do with Hioki making Clay hang on for dear life from the bottom?

Guard IS a neutral position. Its up to either to put their offense/control/etc from there. Clay may have "controlled" more of the time but was also in sub attempts (fight finishing attempts) and also had to defense sweeps, GNP from guard where he landed hardly any GNP himself, only got half guard once which was lost and which he did nothing with.

I don't agree. Guard is not neutral to me. Guard favors the top guy unless we see what hioki did to clay.

Have you ever even been in someone's guard?

Wasa-B -

Soul Gravy - 

caseharts - 

Wasa-B -

caseharts - 

MdGeist -

Pork Sword - 

This problem will not go away until full guard is considered a neutral position like it should be. If you get a takedown great but you need to do something with it besides eating elbows and fighting off chokes.

 

I totally agree.

I don't think it will happen over night but in the next few years, hopefully were going to see more judges that actually have BJJ/grappling backgrounds that can recognize the significance of an offensive guard and weigh certain strikes/sub. attempts from guard/half-guard equally to comparable offensive techniques from top-control.

Guard is not a neutral position. The guy on top is winning for sure if the bottom guy isn't going for subs constantly or sweeps. I thought clay was losing but I knew how judges would react.

Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat.

What on earth does Lamas GNPing the living death out of Koch on top have to do with Hioki making Clay hang on for dear life from the bottom?

Guard IS a neutral position. Its up to either to put their offense/control/etc from there. Clay may have "controlled" more of the time but was also in sub attempts (fight finishing attempts) and also had to defense sweeps, GNP from guard where he landed hardly any GNP himself, only got half guard once which was lost and which he did nothing with.

I don't agree. Guard is not neutral to me. Guard favors the top guy unless we see what hioki did to clay.

Have you ever even been in someone's guard?

Yup, so in theory, if you are in Aoki's guard but both of you are not doing anything, Aoki is winning because we all know what he COULD do.

caseharts -

Soul Gravy -

caseharts - 

Wasa-B -

caseharts - 

MdGeist -

Pork Sword - 

This problem will not go away until full guard is considered a neutral position like it should be. If you get a takedown great but you need to do something with it besides eating elbows and fighting off chokes.

 

I totally agree.

I don't think it will happen over night but in the next few years, hopefully were going to see more judges that actually have BJJ/grappling backgrounds that can recognize the significance of an offensive guard and weigh certain strikes/sub. attempts from guard/half-guard equally to comparable offensive techniques from top-control.

Guard is not a neutral position. The guy on top is winning for sure if the bottom guy isn't going for subs constantly or sweeps. I thought clay was losing but I knew how judges would react.

Being on top is winning. Look at koch vs lamas most of those bombs were thrown in guard then lifted his legs and unleashed some heat.

What on earth does Lamas GNPing the living death out of Koch on top have to do with Hioki making Clay hang on for dear life from the bottom?

Guard IS a neutral position. Its up to either to put their offense/control/etc from there. Clay may have "controlled" more of the time but was also in sub attempts (fight finishing attempts) and also had to defense sweeps, GNP from guard where he landed hardly any GNP himself, only got half guard once which was lost and which he did nothing with.

I don't agree. Guard is not neutral to me. Guard favors the top guy unless we see what hioki did to clay.

Have you ever even been in someone's guard?

Lengthy of high level black belts. This is mma. Not bjj though.

Gokudamus stole my name - If neither the top guy or the bottom guy is doing anything then thats a draw at best and two guys having sex at worst. I dont deal in what if scenarios, you dont win fights based on what you could do, you win based on what you actually do

Ryann Von Doom -

TDogg926 - Takedowns. My friend. Takedowns.

He's not your fren, budday.

And take downs with little to no work > sub attempts and good striking. Gotcha.