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UnderGround Forum >> Guida vs Hioki: Robbery of the Year candidate
| 1/27/13 5:49 PM | |
Wasa-B
42 
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 43006 |
im not exactly the biggest clay fan either, but we all know people like to exaggerate on the UG. people act as if he's never finished a fight ever. |
| 1/27/13 5:49 PM | |
MartialArtsMixed
12
Member Since: 2/3/10 Posts: 7672 |
Signed 
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| 1/27/13 5:50 PM | |
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ufc98newb
37
Member Since: 9/26/10 Posts: 1958 |
Wasa-B - Btw, any comments from Hatsu or Dana after the fight? at the press conference dana said he didn't watch it. was dealing with technical difficulties or some such shit. word is that he appeared facetious when he said he didn't watch it, as he was trying to follow the golden rule of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." |
| 1/27/13 5:51 PM | |
zazen br
Member Since: 10/25/11 Posts: 120 |
Don't you know? Takedown in a boring round = instant 10-9. |
| 1/27/13 6:00 PM | |
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Bentleysuper8
149
Member Since: 4/9/05 Posts: 2077 |
Pride rules it's a Hioki blowout. Not a Guida fan so maybe I'm biased. |
| 1/27/13 6:03 PM | |
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Wasa-B
42
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 43010 |
ufc98newb -Wasa-B - Btw, any comments from Hatsu or Dana after the fight? interesting. he probably respects clay so probably cool not to totally blast it as clay is a regular fixture in the show so... |
| 1/27/13 6:10 PM | |
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Saltyballs
87
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 6969 |
Wasa-B -The only thing Dana said about the fight was on Twitter in response to a fan. Dana seemed to agree that Hioki got robbed.ufc98newb -Wasa-B - Btw, any comments from Hatsu or Dana after the fight? "@danawhite Hioki got robbed. Guida didn't do shit on top position." Dana responded: "@palfor03 I agree."
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| 1/27/13 6:55 PM | |
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HenryO
Member Since: 8/1/12 Posts: 1799 |
Wasa-B - I have nothing against Clay, im not one of those Clay haters, he's had far more finishes than he gets credit for but he said that he got the tds and defended submissions so he's kinda admitting that's all he had. How can you win by getting tds over defending subs? Exactly, so he won by defending? The MMA judging is completely broken |
| 1/27/13 7:06 PM | |
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Wasa-B
42
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 43011 |
Saltyballs -Wasa-B -The only thing Dana said about the fight was on Twitter in response to a fan. Dana seemed to agree that Hioki got robbed.ufc98newb -Wasa-B - Btw, any comments from Hatsu or Dana after the fight? Cool. Dana says a lot of stupid shit but i think that's him as a guy protecting his business but at least he speaks his mind on decisions. |
| 1/27/13 7:06 PM | |
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Wasa-B
42
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 43012 |
Well, again, nothing against Clay but at least most of the fans will remember this as a very spotty decision for him. |
| 1/27/13 7:55 PM | |
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circulation123
Member Since: 8/5/10 Posts: 62 |
I was rooting for Hioki and I agree that it wasn’t the most exciting fight but it wasn’t as boring as people made it out to be. Hioki’s stand up was fun to watch and so was Guida’s sub defense.
It’s not like he didn’t try ANYTHING. He did try to pass guard but Hioki wouldn’t let him and he had to watch out for Hioki’s sub attempt. He also tried to GnP but Hioki stifled it from the bottom.
Hioki needs to improve his striking and work on getting up from the bottom. He was winning the stand up portion of the fight but needs to develop his footwork to make it harder for Guida to take him down. And he tried to get up from the bottom but didn’t have the explosive power or the conditioning for it. He needs to develop them.
Judging criteria is the way it is. You might not like it but Hioki knew the judging criteria before the fight. So should you. The judging criteria aren’t going to change any time soon so fighters needs to adapt to it.
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| 1/27/13 7:56 PM | |
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tatooedMillionaire
Member Since: 3/19/11 Posts: 350 |
love how dana said he missed the fight cause of the audio problems, lol. |
| 1/27/13 8:04 PM | |
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circulation123
Member Since: 8/5/10 Posts: 63 |
By the way I’m not saying Guida definitively won the fight. At least one judge gave credit for Hioki’s stand up. So it could have gone either way. It was close. But even the one judge who gave the fight to Hioki gave credit for Guida’s top control. That’s the way the judging system is right now whether you like it or not. So under the current judging system, you shouldn’t be surprised that Guida won. There are plenty of fights like this where judges gave more credit for top control rather than sub attempt from the bottom. So why are you surprised?
The stand up portion of the fight wasn’t enough to sway 2 of 3 judges.
Again I feel like the fight could have gone to Hioki but based on the past fight similar to this, I’m not surprised. You shouldn’t be surprised either.
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| 1/27/13 8:34 PM | |
MdGeist
Member Since: 6/10/12 Posts: 1410 |
Jaybrone -
While it was a competitive fight, the Noons/Couture fight was universally recognized as a robbery by all of the major MMA sites. http://mmadecisions.com/decision.jsp?id=3915 The FightMetric stats indicate that Noons out-struck Couture and defended all TD attempt, but even these stats don't give a proper account of how one-sided that fight was. The only real significant strikes that Couture landed were sporadic knees to the body and a few solid body kicks, while Noons was blasting him with uppercuts the entire fight. It was just another case of judges slacking off, not giving there full attention to the fight, and awarding the round to what appears to be the "busier" fighter. Couture was throwing a steady stream of unsuccessful air-jabs and weak leg kicks and you could make the case that he was the more aggresive fighter for pressing forward, but Noons countered and out-landed Couture in every round in significant strikes while taking no damage other than getting cut when they clashed heads. |
| 1/27/13 8:40 PM | |
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New Leaf 1.0
Member Since: 3/6/06 Posts: 18688 |
LOL @ that being a "robbery." |
| 1/27/13 8:49 PM | |
Allen Hood
4
Member Since: 12/26/11 Posts: 1340 |
That was sooooooooooooooooooooooo Boring
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| 1/27/13 8:51 PM | |
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Allen Hood
4
Member Since: 12/26/11 Posts: 1341 |
Judge of the year right here
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| 1/27/13 10:06 PM | |
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Wasa-B
42
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 43019 |
circulation123 - Being surprised and calling BS arent the same thing though. And which "judging system" are we talking about? Are we talking about criteria or the level of judging competancy? And how do you know which judge was swayed but what in each round? If you have a link to which judge scored each round, that'd be cool, thanks. |
| 1/27/13 10:08 PM | |
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Wasa-B
42
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 43020 |
circulation123 - Again, which "judging criteria" are we talking about? Which lines exactly that would lend proof that Guida def won by it. I think you're talking about "judging bias." |
| 1/27/13 10:30 PM | |
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bartatua
Member Since: 8/16/10 Posts: 405 |
it's insane that so many people have been complaining about this exact, identical issue for literally YEARS and there has still been nothing done about it or even a gesture toward doing something about it such a joke |
| 1/27/13 10:45 PM | |
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Wasa-B
42
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 43028 |
bartatua - it's insane that so many people have been complaining about this exact, identical issue for literally YEARS and there has still been nothing done about it or even a gesture toward doing something about it I wonder if Zuffa is actively campaigning with the ACs to improve this? |
| 1/28/13 12:32 AM | |
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circulation123
Member Since: 8/5/10 Posts: 68 |
Wasa-B -circulation123 -
You are right. I don’t exactly know which judge was swayed by what in each round. But I can make educated guesses based on the fight. After all, you guys saying that Guida won is also based on educated guesses.
I believe it was 29-28 for Hioki, and 30-27, 29-28 for Guida.
Like Rogan said, whoever scored 30-27 for Guida should be fired and I agree with that.
Since Hioki took control of the standup portion of the fight for most of the 1st Round, I would say that both judges that scored that fight 29-28 gave the first round to Hioki. I also believe that both judges gave the 3rd round to Guida since Hioki spent the majority of the fight on the bottom. I think it was 2nd Round that caused the split. One judge gave that round to Hioki based on stand up portion of the fight-especially the high kick. Another judge didn’t think it offset the ground control by Guida so the judge gave it to Guida.
When I say Judging criteria in this context-I guess I mean a pattern in which the how the judges have judged the fight. You can argue about the actual judging criteria. Or you can argue about the way it is applied. I see argument for both.
But there is a pattern that all fighters and coaches are aware. Historically, the judges gave more credit for top control over sub attempt from the bottom.
Verrismo vs Hughes
Torres VS DJ
Sanchez vs Fitch
Guida vs Pettis.
Those are few fights that I came up with very quickly. I’m sure there are HUNDREDS of more.
So I while it was not the most exciting fights, I was not surprised with the result. Hioki probably understand that as well even though initially after the fight, he thought he won.
If you say that the official MMA judging criteria is BS, I can see argument for that. If you say how the official judging criteria is applied in current MMA fights are BS, I can see argument for that. But you cannot deny that most judges will side with Guida based on how the AC interprets the judging criteria. That is what I meant.
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| 1/28/13 12:33 AM | |
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circulation123
Member Since: 8/5/10 Posts: 69 |
Wasa-B -circulation123 - see my post above |
| 1/28/13 12:44 AM | |
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circulation123
Member Since: 8/5/10 Posts: 72 |
correction: After all, you guys saying that HIOKI won is also based on educated guesses. Not: After all, you guys saying that Guida won is also based on educated guesses. |
| 1/28/13 12:45 AM | |
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UGCTT_Capnsavem
3
Member Since: 12/22/04 Posts: 35361 |
American1177 - Pride clown is butt-hurt. Hioki lost.oh man... you can't have an opinion that goes against the masses around here!!!!
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