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Meltzer on UFC, WWE, boxing PPV buys

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2/2/13 12:23 PM

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Underground Blog 38 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 12/3/08
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MixedMartialArts.com

Dave Meltzer surveys the PPV landscap, and notes that the pirates are not winning - UFC, WWE, and boxing all saw an increase in average buys per show.

For WWE, there was a decline going all the way through 2010. But 2011 was up slightly, and due almost entirely to two shows that involved the return of 'The Rock'. In 2012, the company did 3,926,000 buys in 12 shows.

Boxing remains heavily reliant on Mayweather Jr. and Pacquiao. While there are potential replacements to their throne, none are proven.

For UFC, the total number of buys was down largely because they ran 13 pay-per-view events in 2012 that generated approximately 5.7 million buys, as compared to 16 the previous year that did approximately 6.4 million. The overall average rose from about 400,000 buys per show to an estimated 438,000.

UFC can't pull the kind of numbers Pacquiao and Mayweather do for their big fights, but they are more consistent. Of the top 15 PPV draws, ten came from UFC, four from boxing, and one from WWE.

UFC President Dana White, did say numbers were down last year, blaming it on injuries destroying so many main events. Injuries hurt not just the depth of nearly every show, but actually killed two planned shows.

Georges St-Pierre is the top pay-per-view draw in the sport, because unlike Anderson Silva and Jon Jones, his shows always do well, regardless of the opponent. Part of that is his appeal in Canada, where he holds the pay-per-view records for any sport.

Ronda Rousey, who faces Liz Carmouche on Feb. 23 in Anaheim, Calif., is expected to get press in places that in the past rarely give UFC major coverage. But... no woman's main event has ever drawn more than 125,000 buys in any form of combat sport or entertainment.

Read entire article...

TOP FIVE SHOWS OF THE YEAR (Based on North American buys):
1. Boxing - May 5 - Floyd Mayweather vs. Miguel Cotto 1,500,000
2. Boxing - December 8 - Manny Pacquiao vs. Juan Manuel Marquez 1,150,000
3. UFC 148 - July 7 - Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen 925,000*
4. WWE WrestleMania - April 1 - The Rock vs. John Cena 715,000
5. UFC 145 - April 21 - Jon Jones vs. Rashad Evans 700,000*
5. UFC 154 - November 17 - Georges St-Pierre vs. Carlos Condit 700,000*
5. Boxing - June 9 - Manny Pacquiao vs. Timothy Bradley 700,000
*The UFC is a privately-held company and does not release PPV numbers. Dave Meltzer is the leading figure in the MMA space at estimating UFC PPV buys.

2/2/13 12:27 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
UGCTT Molsonmuscle360 47 Member Since: 11/7/10 Posts: 4489	The fact that a UFC card pulled more viewers then Wrestlemania is nice to see. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 12:40 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
KnowKontrol Member Since: 2/27/12 Posts: 533	Why do people watch wrassling anymore? Back in the 80-90 when the whole fake was not made obvious I guess it could have been something... But now even the wrasslers talk about story lines... That ruins the mystique. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 12:42 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
AlexanderTheGOAT 67 Member Since: 1/28/11 Posts: 13744	Good to see the UFC doing solid numbers You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 12:44 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh 355 Member Since: 9/16/12 Posts: 1563	Man, Dana really overestimated how much 148 would do. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 12:59 PM

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MMALOGIC

Member Since: 8/17/08
Posts: 8199

ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
Man, Dana really overestimated how much 148 would do.

if the UFC wasnt buried on friday nights and on fuel UFC 148 would have done over 1.1 million buys.

Countdown shows that sell ppv's used to get 300k to 600k viewers on spike... now they get 30k or less on fuel.

the fact that the UFC didnt completely implode in 2012 with all the injuries and being buried on TV means it's a pretty strong sports property.

2/2/13 1:00 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
BuddyRevell 12 Member Since: 1/15/07 Posts: 7297	KnowKontrol - Why do people watch wrassling anymore? Back in the 80-90 when the whole fake was not made obvious I guess it could have been something... But now even the wrasslers talk about story lines... That ruins the mystique. They made wrestling more kid-oriented like it was in the 80s. My nephew and his friends are in elementary school and they love that stuff. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 1:02 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
BuddyRevell 12 Member Since: 1/15/07 Posts: 7298	I'm curious to see what other boxers other than Pac and Floyd will be able to consistently outdraw UFC cards. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 1:12 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Haulport Member Since: 2/28/07 Posts: 17551	LOL at getting the FOX deal and seeing your OVERALL ppv numbers DECLINE!!!!!! Holy shit they are running this sport into the ground! You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 1:28 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
PrettyBoy 10 Member Since: 7/27/07 Posts: 8969	BuddyRevell - I'm curious to see what other boxers other than Pac and Floyd will be able to consistently outdraw UFC cards. It will happen. Whoever the boxing world deems the best will always be the new star. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 1:31 PM

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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh 355 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 9/16/12
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MMALOGIC -
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
Man, Dana really overestimated how much 148 would do.

if the UFC wasnt buried on friday nights and on fuel UFC 148 would have done over 1.1 million buys.

Countdown shows that sell ppv's used to get 300k to 600k viewers on spike... now they get 30k or less on fuel.

the fact that the UFC didnt completely implode in 2012 with all the injuries and being buried on TV means it's a pretty strong sports property.

You may very well be right. While the UFC is excellent for Fuel, Fuel fucking sucks for the UFC. I do think they're hitting their stride with Fox/FX though.

All I was saying is that Dana was talking about how it was gonna do UFC 100 numbers or more, and it just a little over half of that.

2/2/13 1:31 PM

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Chris27 498 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 10/24/11
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Haulport -
LOL at getting the FOX deal and seeing your OVERALL ppv numbers DECLINE!!!!!!

Holy shit they are running this sport into the ground!

We know thats what you hope and pray for every single day of your life.

I mean doing more PPV buys than Boxing and WWE, getting 5 million viewers watching on Fox, yeah they are running mma into the ground, it would be so much better if they werent around.

2/2/13 1:32 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
PrettyBoy 10 Member Since: 7/27/07 Posts: 8970	What's really amazing is that boxing out sold 16 WWE events with the 3 cards listed. With Mayweather fighting twice this year with a superfight with Canelo brewing for September and another Manny/JMM on the horizon this looks like a huge year for boxing. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 1:36 PM

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PrettyBoy 10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 7/27/07
Posts: 8971

ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
MMALOGIC -
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
Man, Dana really overestimated how much 148 would do.

if the UFC wasnt buried on friday nights and on fuel UFC 148 would have done over 1.1 million buys.

Countdown shows that sell ppv's used to get 300k to 600k viewers on spike... now they get 30k or less on fuel.

the fact that the UFC didnt completely implode in 2012 with all the injuries and being buried on TV means it's a pretty strong sports property.

You may very well be right. While the UFC is excellent for Fuel, Fuel fucking sucks for the UFC. I do think they're hitting their stride with Fox/FX though.

All I was saying is that Dana was talking about how it was gonna do UFC 100 numbers or more, and it just a little over half of that.

It did do UFC 100 numbers... Anyone who thinks UFC 100 actually did 1.5 million buys is a fucking idiot. Every promoter in boxing laughed at that and said they would pay for an audit if UFC could prove it.

UFC had all the ammo in the world to rub it in boxing face and stayed quiet.

Everyone in the know said UFC 100 did just under a million buys. Phone Post

2/2/13 1:37 PM

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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh 355 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 9/16/12
Posts: 1578

PrettyBoy -
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
MMALOGIC -
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
Man, Dana really overestimated how much 148 would do.

if the UFC wasnt buried on friday nights and on fuel UFC 148 would have done over 1.1 million buys.

Countdown shows that sell ppv's used to get 300k to 600k viewers on spike... now they get 30k or less on fuel.

the fact that the UFC didnt completely implode in 2012 with all the injuries and being buried on TV means it's a pretty strong sports property.

You may very well be right. While the UFC is excellent for Fuel, Fuel fucking sucks for the UFC. I do think they're hitting their stride with Fox/FX though.

All I was saying is that Dana was talking about how it was gonna do UFC 100 numbers or more, and it just a little over half of that.
It did do UFC 100 numbers... Anyone who thinks UFC 100 actually did 1.5 million buys is a fucking idiot. Every promoter in boxing laughed at that and said they would pay for an audit if UFC could prove it.

UFC had all the ammo in the world to rub it in boxing face and stayed quiet.

Everyone in the know said UFC 100 did just under a million buys.

By "everyone in the know" do you mean Bob Arum?

2/2/13 1:39 PM

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Chris27 498 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 10/24/11
Posts: 8198

PrettyBoy -
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
MMALOGIC -
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
Man, Dana really overestimated how much 148 would do.

if the UFC wasnt buried on friday nights and on fuel UFC 148 would have done over 1.1 million buys.

Countdown shows that sell ppv's used to get 300k to 600k viewers on spike... now they get 30k or less on fuel.

the fact that the UFC didnt completely implode in 2012 with all the injuries and being buried on TV means it's a pretty strong sports property.

You may very well be right. While the UFC is excellent for Fuel, Fuel fucking sucks for the UFC. I do think they're hitting their stride with Fox/FX though.

All I was saying is that Dana was talking about how it was gonna do UFC 100 numbers or more, and it just a little over half of that.
It did do UFC 100 numbers... Anyone who thinks UFC 100 actually did 1.5 million buys is a fucking idiot. Every promoter in boxing laughed at that and said they would pay for an audit if UFC could prove it.

UFC had all the ammo in the world to rub it in boxing face and stayed quiet.

Everyone in the know said UFC 100 did just under a million buys.

LOL at you actually believing it did under a million buys.

2/2/13 1:50 PM

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shaqitup 165 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 6/20/11
Posts: 2027

Do you really think UFC 100 didn't do well? ^

I had just graduated highschool, but i remember during the school year, the hype for UFC 100 was massive.

I live in Canada, and i didn't hear much about GSP vs Alves, but everybody was talking about Lesnar vs Mir.

I had so many discussions about it with people i played sports with, hell even my basketball coach got in on the discussion / hype.

Then come fight time, my friends actually agreed to split on the PPV, which never happens.

2/2/13 2:17 PM

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ssj

Member Since: 12/24/11
Posts: 1516

shaqitup -
Do you really think UFC 100 didn't do well? ^

I had just graduated highschool, but i remember during the school year, the hype for UFC 100 was massive.

I live in Canada, and i didn't hear much about GSP vs Alves, but everybody was talking about Lesnar vs Mir.

I had so many discussions about it with people i played sports with, hell even my basketball coach got in on the discussion / hype.

Then come fight time, my friends actually agreed to split on the PPV, which never happens.

cool anecdotal story that proves nothing, bro.

2/2/13 2:22 PM

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Chris27 498 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 10/24/11
Posts: 8199

ssj -
shaqitup -
Do you really think UFC 100 didn't do well? ^

I had just graduated highschool, but i remember during the school year, the hype for UFC 100 was massive.

I live in Canada, and i didn't hear much about GSP vs Alves, but everybody was talking about Lesnar vs Mir.

I had so many discussions about it with people i played sports with, hell even my basketball coach got in on the discussion / hype.

Then come fight time, my friends actually agreed to split on the PPV, which never happens.

cool anecdotal story that proves nothing, bro.

I would bet my life, gun to head that UFC 100 did over a million buys.

it was teh biggest card, had Brock/Mir, GSP, was at the height of mma/UFC popularity in the US.

So we are to believe Brock did a million buys vs Carwin and Cain and Rashad/Page did a mill but UFC 100 didnt?

Anyone who actually believe that card did under a million buys is retarded, sorry but its true.

2/2/13 2:40 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Chromium 41 Member Since: 5/30/11 Posts: 667	Dave Meltzer has contacts in the PPV industry going back over 15 years. If he ever lowballed the UFC's numbers, I'm pretty sure Dana White would quickly call him on it. I seriously doubt he's inflating them either, he has no reason to. This is one area where he's a legitimately reliable source pretty much without peer. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 2:42 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Kirik 488 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 50737 The UnderGround, Mayor	Chromium - Dave Meltzer has contacts in the PPV industry going back over 15 years. If he ever lowballed the UFC's numbers, I'm pretty sure Dana White would quickly call him on it. I seriously doubt he's inflating them either, he has no reason to. This is one area where he's a legitimately reliable source pretty much without peer. +1 You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 3:03 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Zomby Member Since: 12/28/10 Posts: 1068	Meltzer is a man of integrity, I doubt he would lie about the numbers. You have ignored this user.

2/2/13 4:00 PM

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PrettyBoy 10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 7/27/07
Posts: 8973

Chromium - Dave Meltzer has contacts in the PPV industry going back over 15 years. If he ever lowballed the UFC's numbers, I'm pretty sure Dana White would quickly call him on it. I seriously doubt he's inflating them either, he has no reason to.

This is one area where he's a legitimately reliable source pretty much without peer.

Dave I'm pretty sure was getting paid by the UFC in some capacity until the fall out. After which UFC numbers have declined significantly. What a quinky dink.

Bob Arum/ Golden Boy everyone laughed at The claims UFC 100 did 1.5 million buys. The show had barely over a 5 million dollar gate.

UFC numbers were drastically inflated for the majority of their rise. Just as Inviticas are being now... Its the same publicity stunt.

They made a 5 year campaign trying to claim they were the successor to boxing and put their heads down the second Golden Boy offered to do an independent audit. You think they would willing back down from the chance to rub it in boxing face? Phone Post

2/2/13 4:27 PM

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MMALOGIC

Member Since: 8/17/08
Posts: 8202

ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
MMALOGIC -
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
Man, Dana really overestimated how much 148 would do.

if the UFC wasnt buried on friday nights and on fuel UFC 148 would have done over 1.1 million buys.

Countdown shows that sell ppv's used to get 300k to 600k viewers on spike... now they get 30k or less on fuel.

the fact that the UFC didnt completely implode in 2012 with all the injuries and being buried on TV means it's a pretty strong sports property.

You may very well be right. While the UFC is excellent for Fuel, Fuel fucking sucks for the UFC. I do think they're hitting their stride with Fox/FX though.

All I was saying is that Dana was talking about how it was gonna do UFC 100 numbers or more, and it just a little over half of that.

yeah, they're hitting their stride now... all they needed to do was place tuf on a better night, and place the fight nights back on saturdays to stop the bleeding.

Unfortunately now they have to move again from fx to fs1.

long term this will likely be better as they can focus most of their content on an accessible network instead of spreading it out too thin. but it will be another short term blow. they can soften the blow if they can get big fox to replay tuf at 11pm like they did last week. they pulled 1.179 million viewers on saturday night with the tuf replay.

if they can get fox to replay tuf on tuesday nights at 11pm, with the first run airing on fs1 on wednesday nights at 10pm they should do very well.

they are missing an accessible hub like they had on spike. if they can recreate that on fs1 they'll be golden.

if you count up all the fx and fuel fight nights, fox prelims, ppv prelims and first run ppv replays you got a weekly event series of live or premium fights you can air every saturday. you got tuf on wednesdays 10pm which is the best time slot for it. which could lead into countdowns, etc...

fs1 can become spike on steriods, airing more consistent and accessible weekly ufc content than spike ever had.

fx can never replace spike because they dont have the timeslots to properly support the UFC, and fuel isnt in enough homes.

if you concentrate most of the first run content on fs and support it with 4 big shows and tuf replays on big FOX it will be very successful.

2/2/13 4:38 PM

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MMALOGIC

Member Since: 8/17/08
Posts: 8203

Haulport -
LOL at getting the FOX deal and seeing your OVERALL ppv numbers DECLINE!!!!!!

Holy shit they are running this sport into the ground!

it was a short term blow... but the 90m a year eased it a bit. with fs1 launching this summer long term this could have been the best move zuffa has ever made.

most sports properties have been gobbled up for very long terms... Fox has no choice but to promote the heck out of the UFC to make fs1 work. the 90m a year could eventually shoot up to 200m to 300m a year.

if the UFC ends up pulling on FS1 anywehere near the numbers they were pulling on spike they're gonna get a huge bump in pay...

with fox pushing the UFC and building up it's sponsor base all the major players like espn, nbc sports, and cbs will be at the table if the rights ever come up.... but Fox will likely renegotiate way before that.

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