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UnderGround Forum >> Carmouche's neck crank on rousey
| 2/24/13 9:08 AM | |
WikiTheWalrus
11 
Member Since: 3/12/07 Posts: 8050 |
Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that This is the correct. Rousey wasn't in any trouble. She put Carmouche's arm against the jawline, made space between the hips, then spun Carmouche around, exactly how that should be defended. Menjivar's mistake was that he wasn't trying to move Faber from the centerline. Once the backmounted person is away from the centerline, their leverage is gone and gravity and momentum can spin them to the front and the ground. As far as the neck crank, if it had Rousey in legit trouble, she wouldn't be bending into and away from it the way she was when working on Carmouche's hooks. She would have had her back straight and the head going with the crank. Looking like a bad position and being a bad position are two different things, and it takes mat time to be able to tell them apart. |
| 2/24/13 9:11 AM | |
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WikiTheWalrus
11
Member Since: 3/12/07 Posts: 8051 |
And one more observation, look at Rousey's knees. When she bends them towards each other she is droping her base to hold carmouche's weight on her back. She waivers a bit, but that's because it's a slight trade, a little bit of balance lost from the closeness of the knees and feet for a whole lot of center of gravity being lowered to knee height. The knee adjustment is 100% top level judo. If her feet were further apart when her weight dropped there wouldn't be the least bit of waivering from that stance. |
| 2/24/13 9:13 AM | |
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Winston Wolf
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 33780 |
granted it hurts but rarely will anyone tap from crossface Its considered dirty in pratice |
| 2/24/13 9:19 AM | |
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cycklops
131
Member Since: 4/26/03 Posts: 24080 |
Leck Brosnar -mulder68 - What was Rousey doing with her hands? She was trying to take the hooks out when she should have had two on one on the choking arm. Yes she got out of it but she could have easily had her arm trapped too. This
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| 2/24/13 2:26 PM | |
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Bucephalus
534
Edited: 02/24/13 2:27 PM Member Since: 10/22/12 Posts: 2890 |
Winston Wolf - ya name some ? lets see the video Name some? Are you kidding? There is a long history of neck cranks in Mixed Martial Arts. Too many examples to list. You can't use Google to find them? Apparently you are as inexperienced with the internet as you are with Mixed Martial Arts. Here are just a few examples.. complete with pictures and video. Enjoy! Damien Maia def. Rick Story October 13, 2012  Richard Odoms def. Jake Heun January 21, 2012  Shinya Aoki def. Rich Clementi May 29, 2011 Shinya Aoki def. Rob McCullough Sep 24, 2011 Shinya Aoki def. Todd Moore September 23, 2008 |
| 2/24/13 2:26 PM | |
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Bucephalus
534
Edited: 02/24/13 2:26 PM Member Since: 10/22/12 Posts: 2891 |
WikiTheWalrus -Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that No, it's not correct. |
| 2/24/13 2:40 PM | |
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Bucephalus
534
Edited: 02/24/13 2:40 PM Member Since: 10/22/12 Posts: 2892 |
Other recent examples: Jason Cardillo def Zac Gobel January 28 , 2012  TJ Dillishaw def. Vaughan Lee July 11, 2012 
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| 2/24/13 2:43 PM | |
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Bucephalus
534
Member Since: 10/22/12 Posts: 2893 |
Leck Brosnar -mulder68 - What was Rousey doing with her hands? She was trying to take the hooks out when she should have had two on one on the choking arm. Yes she got out of it but she could have easily had her arm trapped too. CORRECT! It helps to refer to "text book defense" when it's actually a choke. It wasn't a choke. It was a crank.. hence Ronda's best move was to remove he hooks. The second she did, she was free... 
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| 2/24/13 2:59 PM | |
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Winston Wolf
Edited: 02/24/13 3:00 PM Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 33786 |
ok i stand corrected there was more than I thought.Its kind of considered dirty in rolling IMO .In rolling usually most would try to bare with the pain because its not going to put you to sleep But in a fight i guess it could hurt.In last nights fight I dont think Ronda was close to tapping |
| 2/24/13 3:00 PM | |
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Bucephalus
534
Edited: 02/24/13 3:00 PM Member Since: 10/22/12 Posts: 2897 |
Winston Wolf - ok i stand corrected there was more than I thought.Its kind of considered dirty in rolling IMO So is punching someone in the face. lol (and respect for eating crow like a man) |
| 2/24/13 3:02 PM | |
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Winston Wolf
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 33787 |
Aokis were nasty |
| 2/24/13 3:02 PM | |
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Bucephalus
534
Member Since: 10/22/12 Posts: 2898 |
It really is a BRUTAL finish. If feels like your jaw/neck/face is going to crack. |
| 2/24/13 3:06 PM | |
Chris27
523
Member Since: 10/24/11 Posts: 8704 |
Bucephalus just shit all over Winston Wolf. |
| 2/24/13 4:14 PM | |
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WikiTheWalrus
11
Member Since: 3/12/07 Posts: 8052 |
Bucephalus -WikiTheWalrus -Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that Yes it is. Every one of the examples posted above proves my point. In order for the crank to work from back mount, Rousey's back needed to be straight and turned into the crank. She was bending forward and her head was away from the crank. This argument isn't whether a neck crank has ever finished anyone, it is whether an experienced grappler would have tapped to what Carmouche had on Rousey. Being an experienced grappler, I would not. I would do exactly what Rousey did. (and I have before in a jits tourney during the gold medal match, ending in an americana win for me) |
| 2/24/13 4:18 PM | |
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DiazsBongWater
142
Member Since: 1/28/13 Posts: 178 |
Huge props to Ronda on coming back and beating Uriah Faber after that nasty face crank. 
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| 2/24/13 4:24 PM | |
cheesesteak
125
Member Since: 11/23/02 Posts: 4702 |
Not a neck crank in any way. Just a desperation choke/lip lock...It does nothing but piss off the more skilled grappler you attempt it on. |
| 2/24/13 4:26 PM | |
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Bucephalus
534
Edited: 02/24/13 4:26 PM Member Since: 10/22/12 Posts: 2904 |
WikiTheWalrus - Yes it is. Every one of the examples posted above proves my point. In order for the crank to work from back mount, Rousey's back needed to be straight and turned into the crank. She was bending forward and her head was away from the crank. Ah.. so now it's matter of semantics? Allow me to clarify. By "that" I assumed that he meant "that type of submission".. not "that exact position". Apparently the guy who originally made the comment "anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that" meant just what I assumed given our subsequent dialogue. And fwiw, I don't disagree with much of what you said, but there are plenty of high level grapplers who have and will tap to that type of submission. |
| 2/25/13 12:26 AM | |
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WikiTheWalrus
11
Member Since: 3/12/07 Posts: 8053 |
Bucephalus -WikiTheWalrus - Yes it is. Every one of the examples posted above proves my point. In order for the crank to work from back mount, Rousey's back needed to be straight and turned into the crank. She was bending forward and her head was away from the crank. My argument was never about semantics. If you go back and read my whole post, not just the one line you quoted, I had the exact same argument as my last post. Maybe WW was referring to neck cranks in general, but I obviously was not. |
| 2/25/13 12:57 AM | |
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rundymc
2
Member Since: 11/16/10 Posts: 448 |
Winston Wolf -Bucephalus -Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that Demian Maia hit it on Story. I'm a purple belt myself, and while I don't like tapping to cranks (for some reason I consider them "cheat" moves lol), I always do if it's tight enough, as it was in Story's case. A good face crank from an RNC, or a neck crank from an anaconda attempt, can crack your shit. Rousey simply did a good job of untangling Carmouche's legs. |
| 2/25/13 12:57 AM | |
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Bucephalus
534
Edited: 02/25/13 12:57 AM Member Since: 10/22/12 Posts: 2916 |
WikiTheWalrus - Maybe WW was referring to neck cranks in general, but I obviously was not. Great. Well I said he was incorrect. And he has already acknowledged it. Thanks for your input. |
| 2/25/13 4:09 AM | |
Pessimist_Pete
Member Since: 9/3/12 Posts: 1865 |
WikiTheWalrus -I submitted you with a neck crank in the hold medal match.Bucephalus -WikiTheWalrus -Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that
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| 2/25/13 4:23 AM | |
Mulisha01
16
Member Since: 12/27/06 Posts: 1073 |
Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that finished somone in a pro fight last weekend with a neck crank from back control .. il give u a link but it just looks like a rnc from the camera angle http://youtu.be/HBWq8tPdIS4 |
| 2/25/13 4:31 AM | |
Caught_clean
27
Member Since: 11/11/09 Posts: 3017 |
Marcello himself in his rolled up interview talks about how tucking your chin is not a defense and how he was taught that early (and roughly) in Brazil. In training people usually wont just crush your jaw, so people think its fine to just do that, then go into a tournament and get crushed and act like it was a illegal technique. Her not hand fighting there only shows what she can get away with at that level, look how fast Uriah ironically finished a much better grappler from that position 2 fights before. |
| 2/25/13 7:40 AM | |
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Winston Wolf
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 33794 |
Chris27 - Bucephalus just shit all over Winston Wolf. i admitted i was wrong i bet youve never been wrong.I dont claim to be a elite grappler but am a purple belt for 4 years.Ive never once tapped to a neck crank.Maybe its because they are considered dirty where i train and nobody would use them.The jaw crush IMO is especially dirty .If u cant get the choke under the neck crushing the face IMO is cheap but it is effective |
| 2/25/13 7:49 AM | |
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drrilll
6
Member Since: 10/23/06 Posts: 118 |
I rolled with a bodybuilder and he caught me with that. I tapped. The pain was excruciating. |
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