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Keenan vs Miyao was a Bjj abomination

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1/28/13 11:59 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
joe_mama 4 Member Since: 2/8/11 Posts: 164	Just get rid of the reaping and foot lock rules, that alone would go a long way. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 11:59 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
checkuroil 116 Member Since: 2/28/03 Posts: 34849	Notice that the minute Keenan stood up he got the pass You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 12:01 PM

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Rival School

Member Since: 1/11/11
Posts: 3374

puppet - Personally I don't have a problem with the double guard pull. It might not be street jiu jitsu, but its very technical non the less. Grip fighting, fighting for foot position, taking backs, and going inverted is all fair game to me. Exciting stuff.

Agree.

Also I don't care if it's a spectator sport and I know it would work in a fight. If you think you can defend this game with a smack you're dreaming because the hand smack him with you should have been breaking grips and therefor will get your back taken or get leg locked Phone Post

1/28/13 12:03 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Rival School Member Since: 1/11/11 Posts: 3375	checkuroil - Notice that the minute Keenan stood up he got the pass He passed but Paulo still spun around and got guard back. Also they worked specifically to pass the Miyao brothers guard. You guys can knock it all you want but they beat everyone else. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 12:24 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
MojoWorkin Member Since: 5/5/09 Posts: 4	Relax, it was just toe wrestling. http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/outdoor/news-toe-wrestling-sweeping-world-its-feet You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 12:33 PM

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dokomoy 1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/18/06
Posts: 414

checkuroil -
dokomoy - This thread is pretty dumb and that match wasn't nearly as bad as you all are making it out to be. I mean I'm not going to argue that it was an exciting match by any stretch, but that wasn't some stallfest where neither guy tries to do anything. Double guard is a complicated game, but both guys were trying to work from there and the second half of the match was pretty cool. That back take attempt by Paulo was pretty cool(and the only other person I've seen have Keenan in that much trouble was Rodolfo so that's kind of cool too) and that pass Keenan hit was pretty neat too.

If you guys don't like guard pulling or double guard or think that jiu jitsu should be all about self defense that's fine, but then why even bother watching these matches? Sport jiu jitsu is what it is and there are a lot of people who love it and don't care that what they do isn't "street applicable" or whatever.
Five minutes of foot to foot isn't that bad?

Yea. I don't think double sitting is any less valid than any other guard, so for me the question isn't how long were they there it's were they attacking? And the answer to that is yes, not successfully obviously but that happens sometimes when two guys are close in skill.

1/28/13 12:46 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Herbish1 5 Member Since: 12/6/10 Posts: 546	I didnt see the match. But I agree most people exploit the rules to hang on to a win. If they made ibjjf sub only, if you don't finish you're opponent you're eliminated. Make the finals and semi finals no time limit. I think it would add to the prestige instead of scoring an advantage and holding on. Also get rid of some of the silly reaping rules. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 12:53 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
TV 22 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 631	I thought it was a good match. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 12:54 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
checkuroil 116 Member Since: 2/28/03 Posts: 34852	Rival School - checkuroil - Notice that the minute Keenan stood up he got the pass He passed but Paulo still spun around and got guard back. Also they worked specifically to pass the Miyao brothers guard. You guys can knock it all you want but they beat everyone else. U r discounting the fact that Keenan won based on a standing pass You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 1:07 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
liquidrob Member Since: 9/9/02 Posts: 9140	"Sometimes these things happen in BJJ" - Gus Johnson You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 1:15 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
deepu 3 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 15196	I used to think matches like this were boring but then I started playing the berimbolo game and my attitude has changed completely. The ability to sweep and pass at the end of the sweep (or take back) is critical when fighting guys with crazy guards. Berimbolo allows for that. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 1:15 PM

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Rival School

Member Since: 1/11/11
Posts: 3377

checkuroil -
Rival School -
checkuroil - Notice that the minute Keenan stood up he got the pass
He passed but Paulo still spun around and got guard back.

Also they worked specifically to pass the Miyao brothers guard.

You guys can knock it all you want but they beat everyone else.
U r discounting the fact that Keenan won based on a standing pass

Against Pablo yes but Joao no. Sitting guard with dueling toe holds leads to Keenan taking his back an choking him unconscious with an Ezekiel choke.

Also you act like that was a methodical pass. I'm sure Pablo won't just lay without grips ever again. With grips that pass doesn't happen. Point is Keenan had multiple way of fighting them. To ignore the option of pulling also is silly.

I know or some reason you guys love throws. I love ground work. Phone Post

1/28/13 1:25 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
GrahamJ 3 Member Since: 1/11/13 Posts: 121	Nikem - Keenan left his family to do that? Looks like its so worth it. Double gold- at brown belt!!1! He raped the competition. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 1:27 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
IBTAPNU 4 Member Since: 3/9/12 Posts: 80	Yeah, just what our sport needs... MORE RULES! Great matches. I loved it. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 1:30 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
GrahamJ 3 Member Since: 1/11/13 Posts: 122	Then they'd just be fighting on the ground for ages - still - while they try to stop one another from standing. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 1:49 PM

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Rival School

Member Since: 1/11/11
Posts: 3378

WhoRunsBarterTown - There would be less incentive to pull guard and there would be more incentive to try to get back to their feet both things BJJ needs to have.

Sorry, but I'm tired of seeing BJJ being laughed at as a fighting style. It really is getting less realistic than TKD. Bjj guys are specializing in beating other BJJ guys under bjj rules. Incentivizing top position and actually having to work to hold a person down would go a long way to bring BJJ back to it's roots.

You get your feelings hurt to easy. My school doesn't have a judo program but there is one really close an they come roll with us. I pull guard and obliterate all of them so really people can laugh all they want Phone Post

1/28/13 1:50 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
John Frankl 17 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 1548	Just watched Miyao vs. Grippo. Could barely stay awake. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 1:52 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
vegard 21 Member Since: 4/24/07 Posts: 8412	looks like a two guys fighting for the sheets You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 1:54 PM

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puppet 11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 8/11/12
Posts: 163

Rival School -
WhoRunsBarterTown - There would be less incentive to pull guard and there would be more incentive to try to get back to their feet both things BJJ needs to have.

Sorry, but I'm tired of seeing BJJ being laughed at as a fighting style. It really is getting less realistic than TKD. Bjj guys are specializing in beating other BJJ guys under bjj rules. Incentivizing top position and actually having to work to hold a person down would go a long way to bring BJJ back to it's roots.
You get your feelings hurt to easy. My school doesn't have a judo program but there is one really close an they come roll with us. I pull guard and obliterate all of them so really people can laugh all they want

Haha good way to not get thrown! Phone Post

1/28/13 2:40 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
puppet 11 Member Since: 8/11/12 Posts: 164	WhoRunsBarterTown - Lets see how well that strategy works in a real fight. So is the argument for competition jiu jitsu, or bjj as self defense/martial art? You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 2:56 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
elburrogrande 6 Member Since: 5/7/10 Posts: 1557	puppet - WhoRunsBarterTown - Lets see how well that strategy works in a real fight. So is the argument for competition jiu jitsu, or bjj as self defense/martial art? with keenan or miyao breaking the foot, or destroying the knee of their attacker. Best case scenario they take his back and put him to sleep. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 3:03 PM

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Furacao 5 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14509

Definite split occurring between old school BJJ'rs vs new school...

Having started BJJ in the 90's with the intent of joining a real fighting art and adding it to my kickboxing and wrestling background, I cannot see the attraction with the "new BJJ sport game".

Does someone really join BJJ nowadays with this being the top of ones "game" and still consider themselves involved in a fighting art?

Of note, I do teach my students berimobolos but with the sole intent of smashing this BS. One did it very well while medaling at Worlds this year smashing several new style berimobolos "playas" winning from the top position.

1/28/13 3:25 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
slick_mcfavorite Member Since: 10/21/12 Posts: 9	I agree with furacao. I love bjj cause it is a fighting discipline. Spending any amount of time working on fighting someone in double butt guard is like training knee wrestling. It's a shame it has sort of come to that too win at some of the bigger tournaments at the lighter weights. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 3:35 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
athsportsnutrition 25 Member Since: 8/17/12 Posts: 103	Daniel/CGJJ - - Penalize double guard pull - Award 4 points for a clean throw - Allow more leg attacks & reaping and that will end all this nonsense -2 for guard pull. (whoever comes on top gets 2). Allow heel hooks/reaping. You have ignored this user.

1/28/13 3:36 PM

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athsportsnutrition 25 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 8/17/12
Posts: 104

Furacao - Definite split occurring between old school BJJ'rs vs new school...

Having started BJJ in the 90's with the intent of joining a real fighting art and adding it to my kickboxing and wrestling background, I cannot see the attraction with the "new BJJ sport game".

Does someone really join BJJ nowadays with this being the top of ones "game" and still consider themselves involved in a fighting art?

Of note, I do teach my students berimobolos but with the sole intent of smashing this BS. One did it very well while medaling at Worlds this year smashing several new style berimobolos "playas" winning from the top position.

Same here.

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