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PoliticalGround >> Obama vs McCain = the suck
| 2/14/08 1:57 PM | |
Govnor
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 27988 |
" Well, Obama vs McCain sure as hell is better than Bush vs Kerry." Oh fo' Sho. |
| 2/14/08 1:59 PM | |
Daredevil73
121 
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 09/03/2002 Posts: 24315 |
How is it that everyone can look at virtually every agency and department of the government and see how fucked up they are and still think government mandated health care is a good idea? Seriously? |
| 2/14/08 1:59 PM | |
Up With Evil
7
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 10136 |
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Diagnosed with late-stage cancer? Don't cry "unfair" just because you couldn't afford earlier treatment, get ready to give your family the windfall they deserve by pre-selling all of your organs for transplantation. Two kindeys, a liver, a heart, two lungs, corneas, a square meter of skin for grafts - by the time they've harvested everything you have to offer, your family could get a check for over $100,000, enough to make sure they have insurance for the rest of their lives. |
| 2/14/08 2:01 PM | |
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VegasBlack
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 05/22/2002 Posts: 529 |
I think a better approach would be mandatory health insurance with a means-tested subsidy for low income. Universal healthcare in the traditional sense would lead to an overall degradation of the quality of care and/or two-tiered system. |
| 2/14/08 2:05 PM | |
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Daredevil73
121
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 09/03/2002 Posts: 24317 |
I think a better approach would be mandatory health insurance with a means-tested subsidy for low income. Universal healthcare in the traditional sense would lead to an overall degradation of the quality of care and/or two-tiered system. Exactly. I have no problem with thinking the current system sucks, but the idea that government can fix it has to be a view held by people who have never dealt with the federal government before. |
| 2/14/08 2:17 PM | |
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matt murdock
144
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 7422 |
"Everyone should have the RIGHT to GOOD healthcare. It is everyone's obligation to chip in and help each other on this matter. By definition, sick people are weaker, less able to take care of themselves if at all, and need others to do so for them. Making people stay sick when money is the only thing stopping them from being healthy is down right evil. "Can't afford your cancer treatments? Well then just go ahead and die. Why the fuck should I care?" Seems pretty harsh to me." Yeah, we are opposite ends of the spectrum here. How does someone have a right to good healthcare? Or a right to a nice house? Or a right to a decent living? These are not 'rights' these are things that force other people to provide you with things. That is not freedom. Everyone has the right to freedom of speech. That does not mean, however, that someone is obligated to provide them with a platform to exercise their freedom of speech. The government, or the people, or anyone else does not have to give you a stage and a microphone to say what you want to say. Anything that obligates someone else to do something is not a right. That's why the Constitution says the right to the PURSUIT of happiness. You are free to do as you please (as long as it's not infringing on someone else's right to do what they want and/or hurting someone else) and seek your own happiness and well-being, but no one is expected to provide those things for you. |
| 2/14/08 2:18 PM | |
Shawn C
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/06/2001 Posts: 32745 |
Fuck mandatory health insurance. Even Barack Obama recognizes it isn't right to force people to pay for it. |
| 2/14/08 2:21 PM | |
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matt murdock
144
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 7424 |
Oh yeah, friends, family, charity, etc should help with someone who's down and out. And if the government got off everyones back, I do believe there would be more non for profit charities and free health clinics, etc to provide the help. |
| 2/14/08 2:22 PM | |
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attjack
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 41067 |
"it isn't right to force people to pay for it." Actually because we don't have it people are already forced to pay for it. |
| 2/14/08 2:57 PM | |
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matt murdock
144
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 7426 |
ttt |
| 2/14/08 3:05 PM | |
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pneuma
1
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 08/14/2004 Posts: 7701 |
"(higher taxes, more welfare, this tax to the UN garbage, gun control, universal healthcare, more economic regulation, etc)" What makes you say he's going to do that? Seriously. What worries me about Obama is that he's said nothing of substance at all about what he will or won't do when in office. He's running on the Reagan, City on a Hill, gauzy, seni-mystical platform where he offers nothing but soothing platitudes. Maybe he'll do all of those things, maybe he'll govern as a far-right idealogue, maybe he'll make us all wear pink bunny uniforms. How would you know from his speeches? And McCain isn't Bush lite. Not to thrilled about him either, but at minimum the man can form a coherent sentence when he's asked a question. |
| 2/14/08 3:06 PM | |
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attjack
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 41074 |
"What makes you say he's going to do that? Seriously." The desire to spread false propaganda. |
| 2/14/08 3:09 PM | |
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olfocker
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 03/06/2005 Posts: 5421 |
I agree they all suck |
| 2/14/08 3:11 PM | |
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supersonic
14
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 11/27/2002 Posts: 10408 |
"Making people stay sick when money is the only thing stopping them from being healthy is down right evil" Money is not the answer. Money, or lack there of, does not make people sick and is not the silver bullet of Americas healthcare problems |
| 2/14/08 3:15 PM | |
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Shawn C
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/06/2001 Posts: 32746 |
"Actually because we don't have it people are already forced to pay for it." Explain, please. |
| 2/14/08 3:17 PM | |
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attjack
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 41078 |
When billy-bob gets a cold Bobbie-Sue takes him to the emergency room. Our taxes pay for it. |
| 2/14/08 3:17 PM | |
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matt murdock
144
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 7427 |
Actually, pneuma, you're right. I'm more spouting the Democratic platform than Obama's, because Obama doesn't give many specifics. |
| 2/14/08 3:20 PM | |
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Shawn C
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/06/2001 Posts: 32747 |
When I went to the emergency room, I was sent a bill and I paid it. |
| 2/14/08 3:22 PM | |
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attjack
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 41079 |
I can't believe that sailed right over your head. No more questions from you. |
| 2/14/08 3:40 PM | |
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Up With Evil
7
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 10151 |
"What worries me about Obama is that he's said nothing of substance at all about what he will or won't do when in office. He's running on the Reagan, City on a Hill, gauzy, seni-mystical platform where he offers nothing but soothing platitudes." Geez, and here the Republican National Committee has been lambasting Obama for all of the specifics he's been proposing. http://www.gop.com/obamaspendometer.htm |
| 2/14/08 3:41 PM | |
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old guard
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 03/24/2005 Posts: 1587 |
McCain reminds me of the old priest in the exorcist movie. too old and frail and will die in office, if elected. obama is the younger priest and will get the job done. hillary is linda blair |
| 2/14/08 3:41 PM | |
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Shawn C
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/06/2001 Posts: 32748 |
After looking it up, I see that unpaid emergency room costs are indeed passed onto property tax payers. Of course, it's Federal law that says hospitals have to treat everyone who comes into the emergency room. These are the kind of problems that happen when the gov't forces people to do things they shouldn't have to do. |
| 2/14/08 3:48 PM | |
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many anchovies
5
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 27437 |
What worries me about Obama is that he's said nothing of substance at all about what he will or won't do when in office. this is simply not true. obama has talked policy plenty. he was just in wisconsin yesterday talking about his economic policy. if you have policy questions, go to his website! obama on the economy obama on fiscal policy obama on health care obama on education obama on energy and the environment obama on foreign policy obama on homeland security obama on seniors and social security obama on iraq obama on veterans obama on poverty obama on immigration obama on civil rights obama on technology obama on ethics obama on faith obama on family |
| 2/14/08 3:50 PM | |
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Up With Evil
7
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 01/01/2001 Posts: 10152 |
"Of course, it's Federal law that says hospitals have to treat everyone who comes into the emergency room." It also says we can't throw dead bodies into the trash. More Big Guv'mit working for Big Mortuary. |
| 2/14/08 3:52 PM | |
Ridgeback
Edited: 14-Feb-08 Member Since: 07/03/2007 Posts: 3274 |
There is simply nothing unique about Obama's views. He is a left of center liberal. I bet most of his supporters don't even know what he stands for because they are in love with his charisma and, sadly, his skin color. He will be ok if you want a relatively inexperienced person in the White House who supports liberal policy. He will probably swing the Supreme Court back, increase gun control (as if we don't have enough laws on the books), raise taxes, expand the federal government, and totally screw up in Iraq (even more than Bush if that is possible). |
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