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OtherGround Forum >> .45 handgun
| 12/28/12 9:51 PM | |
Arodjohns
36 
Member Since: 4/5/08 Posts: 1827 |
1911's are bad ass, they really are. However, there's this revolver that's even better. Man, I wish I could just remember the name of it. It's something like a Mustang Garter Snake or the like. It may be called a Pony Constrictor. Maybe somebody could help me out and post a pic of it with the accompanying bag of 5.56. |
| 12/28/12 10:29 PM | |
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Zonion
4
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 3890 |
The most comfortable handgun I ever shot was a 1911 - I would choose that one. |
| 12/28/12 10:33 PM | |
invalid
132
Member Since: 4/18/01 Posts: 35220 |
WidespreadPanic -sux@bjj - Good choice, +P Hallow-point Amo = dead right there. Not against the Twilight ones. The only thing that seems to work is 35-45 year old women |
| 12/28/12 10:36 PM | |
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Mix6APlix
Member Since: 10/26/03 Posts: 18980 |
Sagiv Lapkin -bluejays -Are you serious dumbass?Mix6APlix -Lol at savage napkinSmasherSnu -Sagiv Lapkin -phydeau -Sagiv Lapkin -Rogans secret stash -Akston - Glock, 1911 in an antiquated relicThere is a reason that the 1911 platform has lasted for over a hundred years. And it's not because its old. I own 2 1911's and previously owned a glock. I'd recommend shooting a couple different guns if you can, see what feels good to you. Some people don't like the feel of Glocks. The xd's are also a nice gun. If I am the dumbass in question, then yes. If you have 3 people being intruders to your residence, than 8 rounds should be more than enough to neutralize at least one, and make the others contemplate how they should be moving forward with their life. As stated on other threads, I am not a gun owner, but I think when you put a .45 into someone's head or chest, their cohorts are going to consider further progression into your home if they have anything less than military training and/or a death wish. |
| 12/28/12 10:45 PM | |
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MrFluffyHippo
200
Member Since: 6/10/12 Posts: 3312 |
Average number of shots fired in self defense by civilians and police is 2. I wouldn't worry about high capacity for home defense. 99.99999% even if there are 10 intruders, they hear one gun shot they are all going to run like hell. That being said the gun you stake your life on should be the one you feel most comfortable and familiar with. 
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| 12/28/12 10:46 PM | |
Stan Dan Wang
Member Since: 8/16/11 Posts: 5172 |
stopped reading, started laughing at "I am not a gun owner, but..." |
| 12/28/12 10:52 PM | |
Sagiv Lapkin
1321
Member Since: 3/23/07 Posts: 34095 NerdQuestionOfTheDay.com, Owner |
Mix6APlix -Sagiv Lapkin -bluejays -Are you serious dumbass?Mix6APlix -Lol at savage napkinSmasherSnu -Sagiv Lapkin -phydeau -Sagiv Lapkin -Rogans secret stash -Akston - Glock, 1911 in an antiquated relicThere is a reason that the 1911 platform has lasted for over a hundred years. And it's not because its old. I own 2 1911's and previously owned a glock. I'd recommend shooting a couple different guns if you can, see what feels good to you. Some people don't like the feel of Glocks. The xd's are also a nice gun. You are not to whom I was referring. So by your rationale you need a 2-3 round magazine tops, right? Enough to kill one dude for sure (two to the chest, one to the head) and the rest will run away? IMO, that is absolutely the wrong approach to take with regard to this philosophy of use (no offense to you, personally). In a CCW pistol you have to make compromises because if it's too big, bulky, and heavy you won't carry it. So in that capacity/philosophy of use a pistol with a 7 round standard mag is acceptable. But for a home defense gun? Not only "no", but "fuck no" IMO.
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| 12/28/12 11:05 PM | |
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spider guard
9
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2560 |
I have a 1911 with 8 rd mag (+1 chambered) as my nightstand gun. I also have a German shepherd that goes apeshit when he hears something. If the German shepherd and 9rds of 1911 aren't enough then my house is being invaded like red dawn style and I'm probably fucked. |
| 12/28/12 11:09 PM | |
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Mix6APlix
Member Since: 10/26/03 Posts: 18984 |
I live on the south side of Chicago, where I think more people are carrying than not. I just think that if they meet resistance, in any form, much less then a few rounds of a .45, they are going to dip and look for a softer target. Again, I get the Glock 21 has a 13 round clip, but an 8 round clip, I would think, would be able to put enough second thoughts in your intruders heads to be able to reload if it got to that point. Again, not a gun owner, so I admittedly ignorant on the subject, but unless you are facing an opposing force with military training (which is an all too real scenario in today's society) I would suspect that 8 rounds would be enough to deter the average intruder. All of my posts have been pro gun ownership, I am no anti gun by any means, but I think when you drop someone with a .45 (by which I mean the average scumbag who you would encounter on the south side of Chicago) the rest would flee like cockroaches. |
| 12/29/12 12:01 AM | |
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bluejays
1
Member Since: 4/14/12 Posts: 210 |
Sagiv Lapkin -If that dumbass comment was at me, i was laughing at what appeared to be a funny auto correct of your SN, not at anything that is being argued.Mix6APlix -Sagiv Lapkin -bluejays -Are you serious dumbass?Mix6APlix -Lol at savage napkinSmasherSnu -Sagiv Lapkin -phydeau -Sagiv Lapkin -Rogans secret stash -Akston - Glock, 1911 in an antiquated relicThere is a reason that the 1911 platform has lasted for over a hundred years. And it's not because its old. I own 2 1911's and previously owned a glock. I'd recommend shooting a couple different guns if you can, see what feels good to you. Some people don't like the feel of Glocks. The xd's are also a nice gun. 
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| 12/29/12 12:08 AM | |
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phydeau
76
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 11871 |
"I just think that if they meet resistance, in any form, much less then a few rounds of a .45, they are going to dip and look for a softer target" This. They wouldn't have become criminals if they wanted to work hard for their money. Resist, and they'll go looking elsewhere. "In a CCW pistol you have to make compromises because if it's too big, bulky, and heavy you won't carry it... But for a home defense gun? Not only "no", but "fuck no" IMO." This is true also. For CCW you might go smaller caliber, short barrel, chopped alloy frame, etc. But for a night stand gun there's no reason NOT to go full size, all steel, and large caliber. Rail & light too, if you like. "That being said the gun you stake your life on should be the one you feel most comfortable and familiar with." And that's the BEST bit of advice right there. My night stand gun is a 1911 because I KNOW, from long practice, that I can put 2 shots center mass into a man-size target under CQB conditions. And I ALSO know, from LITTERALLY over 100 years of historical data, that the .45 ACP round is as good a man-stopper as can fit into a self-loading pistol. AND I know that my 1911, like any 1911 that is properly tuned and in good maintenance, is as reliable a machine as is in the power of mankind to build. |
| 12/29/12 12:08 AM | |
UGCTT_Fillthy
173
Edited: 12/29/12 12:09 AM Member Since: 1/8/09 Posts: 1492 |
My standard advice for picking a firearm -
Put together a list of contenders based on recommendation and reputation for customer service Go to a gun show or visit a couple retailers. Always best to buy local for this type of thing. Pick a spot on the wall Pick up a firearm you're considering Close your eyes Point the firearm at the spot on the wall Open your eyes
Whichever firearm points nearest the spot on the wall is the one you want. A competent gunsmith can make any firearm reliable or precise. Nothing will ever change the natural point-of-aim. Natural PoA is the most important factor in a home defense weapon. |
| 12/29/12 12:10 AM | |
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phydeau
76
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 11872 |
"i was laughing at what appeared to be a funny auto correct of your SN" Auto correct? I thought he was being snarky. |
| 12/29/12 12:10 AM | |
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UGCTT_Fillthy
173
Edited: 12/29/12 12:11 AM Member Since: 1/8/09 Posts: 1493 |
Also, there's no such thing as 'stopping power' Only 'stopping placement'.
And a handgun is what you use to get to your real gun. |
| 12/29/12 12:13 AM | |
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upgrayedd25
11
Member Since: 2/6/11 Posts: 389 |
This is mine. Best of both worlds, double stack 1911!
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| 12/29/12 12:21 AM | |
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phydeau
76
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 11873 |
"Whichever firearm points nearest the spot on the wall is the one you want. A competent gunsmith can make any firearm reliable or precise. Nothing will ever change the natural point-of-aim. Natural PoA is the most important factor in a home defense weapon." What you're talking about is called "indexing" and it's a simple training issue. The 1911 indexes for me right at point of aim. So does the XD, the M&P, and most revolvers. The Glock indexes high for me - I open my eyes and the barrel is LITTERALLY pointing at the ceiling. I could TOTALLY retrain my grip. Try it yourself. It only takes 2-3 more tries to properly adjust your grip index for whatever weapon you're using. I simply choose not to. The Glock is a fine weapon. I would never tell someone who bought a Glock that they made a mistake (unless some asshole talked them into buying a leftover .45 GAP). I choose my 1911 because it's the weapon I'm most familiar with, and the one I trust the most. |
| 12/29/12 12:29 AM | |
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Rhymenoceros
120
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 14070 |
UGCTT_Fillthy - Oh good lord. People, do not take this advice. I thought I had read bad advice on the internet before, but this takes the cake. |
| 12/29/12 12:33 AM | |
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Captain Epic
27
Member Since: 9/12/12 Posts: 76 |
I am also looking at purchasing a 1911 and have read some great suggestions in this thread. Anyone else want to chime in on a good shooting, reliable 1911 for around 500-800? i've really been considering an American Classic Commander, anyone have any experience with one of these? All help appreciated. I am looking to carry this occasionally but mainly night stand when i get home. i was considering not getting a 1911 and just going with something a little cheaper but after holding one at a gun store the guy asked me what if felt like in my hand. I told him it felt like winning WW2 in my hand. I had to have one after that :) |
| 12/29/12 12:34 AM | |
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Rhymenoceros
120
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 14071 |
phydeau - "Whichever firearm points nearest the spot on the wall is the one you want. A competent gunsmith can make any firearm reliable or precise. Nothing will ever change the natural point-of-aim. Natural PoA is the most important factor in a home defense weapon." Correct. It's a training thing. I went from shooting Glocks tens of thousands of rounds per year to shooting a CZ. I think it took, oh, five minutes to retrain my "index." And mostly that was just shaving a few hundredths of a second off my draw time in order to get the sights where I wanted them before beginning my trigger pull. The only people who really seem to think that grip angle is the most important thing in the world when choosing a firearm are people who think they are point-shooting gods, and who have no concept of what makes a gun shootable. I mean, I can think of a million things more important to the shootability of a pistol than its grip angle. |
| 12/29/12 12:35 AM | |
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UGCTT_Fillthy
173
Edited: 12/29/12 12:54 AM Member Since: 1/8/09 Posts: 1494 |
phydeau - "Whichever firearm points nearest the spot on the wall is the one you want. A competent gunsmith can make any firearm reliable or precise. Nothing will ever change the natural point-of-aim. Natural PoA is the most important factor in a home defense weapon."
you can retrain your grip, but if you're not shooting a couple times per month, under the stress and duress of 'bump in the night' you'll probably return to your natural index. If you're just going to keep it on the night stand and take it a 6-10 times every year to go shooting w/ friends, I'd also advise learning to shoot the POI...or is it POA...Impact or Aim, I forget what it's called.
Lay your index (trigger) finger on the frame just above the trigger guard, pointing it at your target.Pull the trigger with your middle finger. Super fast and reliable for Minute-of BadGuy shooting at hallway distances. Your target shooting pals might chuckle, but you won't miss when it matters. You can play with Weaver/isosceles/etc and different grips if you want to shoot competitively or more 'seriously recreationally'. I also tell folks to shoot the Golden Triangle - first shot to the pelvic girdle, 2nd to the BadGuy's left nipple(top right of target), 3rd to BadGuy's right nipple (top left of target). Then reassess the threat.
But to each his own, do what comes natural. A firearm is not a magic talisman, it's a tool and you need to develop a basic level of proficiency. It's not the saw that builds a house, it's a carpenter. It's not a gun that protects it, it's a shooter.
Edit - replaced shoulder with nipple - I knew what I meant, obviously you don't shoot at the shoulder. doh. |
| 12/29/12 12:42 AM | |
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UGCTT_Fillthy
173
Edited: 12/29/12 12:45 AM Member Since: 1/8/09 Posts: 1495 |
Rhymenoceros -UGCTT_Fillthy -
what's wrong with the advice?
Get a gun made by a manufacturer with a solid reputation for customer service from a local shop that fits your natural point of aim? You're talking to someone who's buying their first firearm and most likely isn't going to fire 1k rounds a month. Most people want to be able to defend themselves and their family, they're not looking to shoot IPSC matches.
you must not get around the internet much, or it's mostly just looking at donkey porn. :) |
| 12/29/12 1:07 AM | |
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Rhymenoceros
120
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 14072 |
First, let's leave donkey porn out of this. Second, for the rest of the stuff, as far as reverting to a natural index under stress, as far as not missing when using an "off" finger to control the trigger while compromising your grip, etc, how do you know? What's your basis for knowing this stuff? Is it pure rationale? Have you heard an expert say this stuff? Have you done it in real life? I think we all want to give the best advice possible - especially to new shooters - but we need to be careful with what we recommend. That's all. |
| 12/29/12 1:10 AM | |
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phydeau
76
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 11876 |
I am familiar with point shooting. It's a tool, one of many in the CQB continum. At "bad breath" distance, 0-2 feet, you're not going to be using your sights. You're going to use your weak hand to push the bad guy away/control his weapon, and you'll shoot from a close tuck. Google "homie, that my briefcase" to see what I mean. At "spitting" distance, 1-4 feet, point shooting is viable. But just as important is diagonal movement, back and away from your attacker. Past spitting distance use your sights. IMO all shots should be to the "pie plate" in the center of the chest. Yes, Clint Smill talks about the three points of natural armor, the pelvic girdle being one of them. And yes, a shot to the pelvic girdle will probably shatter the pelvis, leaving a NORMAL subject utterly unable to move from the tits down, and in as much mortal agony as a human body can likely experience. But a subject in an altered state will often ignore things that would out and out kill a "normal" person. Plus there's the extra training for selecting targets. Good training is simple training. Simple traning is a single target. According to the FBI the most reliable way to "stop" an attacker is to incapaciate them through rapid blood loss. For that you need to rupture the large, blood bearing organs of the torso - Liver, spleen, kindeys, lungs, heart. The good news is that a standard, picnic-issue paper plate or "pie plate" hung between the nipples covers ALL these organs. Two shots to the pie plate with a round that will penatrate a minimum of 12 inches through flesh & bone will cause massive bleeding. Blood loss will lead to a lack of oxygen to the brain, and incapacitation. |
| 12/29/12 1:16 AM | |
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WidespreadPanic
280
Member Since: 12/29/06 Posts: 8502 |
Mix6APlix - I live on the south side of Chicago, where I think more people are carrying than not. I just think that if they meet resistance, in any form, much less then a few rounds of a .45, they are going to dip and look for a softer target. Again, I get the Glock 21 has a 13 round clip, but an 8 round clip, I would think, would be able to put enough second thoughts in your intruders heads to be able to reload if it got to that point. Again, not a gun owner, so I admittedly ignorant on the subject, but unless you are facing an opposing force with military training (which is an all too real scenario in today's society) I would suspect that 8 rounds would be enough to deter the average intruder. Sorry, Glocks don't have 'clips'.
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| 12/29/12 1:21 AM | |
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phydeau
76
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 11877 |
"Two shots to the pie plate with a round that will penatrate a minimum of 12 inches through flesh & bone will cause massive bleeding. Blood loss will lead to a lack of oxygen to the brain, and incapacitation." And FWIW most popular self defense rounds these days in most of the popular calibers - 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 Sig, .45 ACP - will all pass the FBI penitration test. |
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