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OtherGround Forum >> TMA Eating Organic vs. Non-Oganic
| 12/31/12 10:50 AM | |
jotabrav0
4 
Member Since: 3/17/02 Posts: 578 |
Is it worth the extra $$ to do this? Are there certain items that are worse offenders than others? I've heard a convincing argument both ways. How does the OG eat their food? 
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| 12/31/12 10:51 AM | |
Sagiv Lapkin
1444
Member Since: 3/23/07 Posts: 34127 NerdQuestionOfTheDay.com, Owner |
I'd choose the organic if there was ever a choice. Especially with regard to meats. |
| 12/31/12 10:56 AM | |
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-FC-
10
Member Since: 5/17/08 Posts: 23291 |
Sagiv Lapkin -This. Won't be long before some dipshit tells you it's not much more nutritious than non organic. The question you need to ask yourself is, do I want to inject unnecessary shit into my body, most of which I can't even pronounce?
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| 12/31/12 10:58 AM | |
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scaredy cat
31
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 322 |
Organic is one of those key phrases, along with vegan or gluten free, that when applied to food packaging magically increases the price by 25-30%. |
| 12/31/12 11:00 AM | |
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rampageforpresident
Member Since: 1/12/09 Posts: 1358 |
Everybody knows only crazy conspiracy theorists want their food to not be soaked in chemicals. |
| 12/31/12 11:02 AM | |
ceiling_cat
156
Member Since: 12/9/09 Posts: 7389 |
I think the health benefits are dubious at best. Still, at least at my grocers, organic produce is usually higher quality in terms of taste and color, which justifies the price for me. I'd buy local non organic before I bought non local organic though. 
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| 12/31/12 11:04 AM | |
ghost of KVR
208
Member Since: 2/19/12 Posts: 1098 TheHomeSteadingBoards.com |
unless you are growing and raising yourself, I would question the word organic on packaging |
| 12/31/12 11:10 AM | |
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Kamikaze Emu
32
Member Since: 6/9/10 Posts: 1798 |
I eat a lot of organic, and I would say it is indeed worth it. You have to be careful about what you are actually buying so you are not just paying more for an organic label. The best way to do this is to purchase directly from the farmer via farmers markets or a CSA (Community Supported Agriculture). If you really want to dive in, check out the farm. I would be careful about purchasing from a place that did not allow visitors, especially if you are a CSA member. Most CSAs in my area have an open door policy where you are allowed on the farm anytime. I 2nd Sagiv's note on the meat. The veg will be better as well, but the shit that goes into meat in the industrial system is crazy. Learn the growing seasons of the veg you are eating and then you will know when certain veg is in abundance and should be cheaper at that time. If you get to know your farmer and build some sort of relationship you should be able to just hit them up and ask what they have in bulk right now and they will cut you a deal. There are some good bargains to be had in bulk at the end of season, and a lot of the stuff can be stored for months as is. Get eggs as well if you can. The price is similar (sometimes even better) than what you will get out of the g-store and they quality is on another level. In terms of the price premium keep focusing local to minimize the gap. As fuel prices, and given that fuel is such a huge part of conventionally grown produce, you will see your local and organic options come more in line with standard industrial prices. If they are not already. |
| 12/31/12 11:20 AM | |
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PrisonMattressPuncher
Member Since: 12/17/12 Posts: 403 |
"Get eggs as well if you can. The price is similar (sometimes even better) than what you will get out of the g-store and they quality is on another level."
I have never seen "organic" eggs at out farmers' markets, I have only seen "free run", and as most knowledgable people will tell you, it is mostly BS. Simply placing a small door on a coop counts as "free run". It is just an opportunity to charge $6 to 7/dozen. I buy organic bananas simply because I knew someone who went by a banana plantation and was repulsed by the stench of the pesticde that was sprayed on them. |
| 12/31/12 11:20 AM | |
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Since93
Member Since: 3/25/09 Posts: 351 |
-FC- -it's not any more nutritious than non organic.Sagiv Lapkin -This. Won't be long before some dipshit tells you it's not much more nutritious than non organic.
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| 12/31/12 11:22 AM | |
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Since93
Member Since: 3/25/09 Posts: 352 |
PrisonMattressPuncher -The "quality" is better? Wtf does this even mean? You sir are full of shit.
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| 12/31/12 11:24 AM | |
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Jenny Wishbone
Member Since: 9/5/07 Posts: 6532 |
-FC- -Sagiv Lapkin -This. Won't be long before some dipshit tells you it's not much more nutritious than non organic. Nail on the head. |
| 12/31/12 11:25 AM | |
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uratoker2
4
Member Since: 4/17/02 Posts: 4170 |
L8er
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| 12/31/12 11:26 AM | |
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Kamikaze Emu
32
Member Since: 6/9/10 Posts: 1799 |
Since93 -PrisonMattressPuncher -The "quality" is better? Wtf does this even mean? Have you had a proper organic egg? Any person who has will tell you they are not even in the same league as that pale and runny pos that passes for an egg these days. |
| 12/31/12 11:26 AM | |
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Jenny Wishbone
Member Since: 9/5/07 Posts: 6533 |
PrisonMattressPuncher - You would imagine then that non-skinned pesticide-sprayed fruit are even more dangerous to consume. |
| 12/31/12 11:30 AM | |
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Kamikaze Emu
32
Member Since: 6/9/10 Posts: 1800 |
PrisonMattressPuncher - As I mentioned in my post, be careful what you buy and visit your farmer. I will not deny there are people looking to cash in with the organic label. |
| 12/31/12 11:38 AM | |
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turducken
Member Since: 1/7/09 Posts: 11702 |
ceiling_cat - I think the health benefits are dubious at best. Still, at least at my grocers, organic produce is usually higher quality in terms of taste and color, which justifies the price for me. I'd buy local non organic before I bought non local organic though. how can you think the health benefits are only dubious at best? the chemicals sprayed on conventional produce are KNOWN carcinogens. its not some great mystery. and organic food has other restrictions to go beyond the use of synthetic pesticides...it cannot be genetically modified, irradiated, there are restrictions on processing and packaging(organic almonds are steamed rather than washed in chlorine, etc.), etc... that said, just because something has an organic label on it doesnt mean its going to be perfectly clean. a LOT of organic food now comes from china(if you ever shop in a real health food store, not a corporate one like whole foods, they will have everything labeled with country of origin)...like organic pumpkin seeds? most likely come from china. and yea, its labeled organic, but that label is based on the inspection and seal of some unknown third party company...in china...not a place known for its honesty and ethics in food production. organic has also become big business in the US, and many organic food brands are run under affiliate companies of big agribusinesses(like dean foods). there have been some scandals with horizon dairy basically buying old conventional feedlots, keeping the same old conventional cows, but then slapping an organic label on them moving forward...even though they were still using giant feedlot conditions and the same previously non-organic cows. organic food is not 100% of pesticides either. there are tons of problems that i could go on and on about, but at the end of the day standard organic is the best you can do if you can't grow it yourself or buy from a local organic farmer. i only buy organic food and would rather not buy a particular food product than buy it conventional if the organic option isnt available. |
| 12/31/12 11:56 AM | |
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ceiling_cat
156
Member Since: 12/9/09 Posts: 7390 |
turducken -I think you answered your own question there. If agribusiness and the FDA were actually separate entities, with a real regulatory relationship then maybe organic foods could be trusted to be all the things it claims to be. That's not the case. The FDA is not an independent or trustworthy regulator and their organic label doesn't mean much to me. This is borne out in studies that show few real health benefits for people that way organic. Obviously what we eat matters, but it's about a whole lot more than organic.ceiling_cat - I think the health benefits are dubious at best. Still, at least at my grocers, organic produce is usually higher quality in terms of taste and color, which justifies the price for me. I'd buy local non organic before I bought non local organic though.
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| 12/31/12 12:10 PM | |
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turducken
Member Since: 1/7/09 Posts: 11703 |
think you mean USDA not FDA. anyways, they set the standards for the "USDA Organic" label, but the actual certifications are provided by third parties, most often QAI or a company like that. but you can find certifiers that are MUCH more trustworthy, such as Oregon Tilth. but like i said before, organic isnt a magic label that means the food is automatically safe, but it is always better than conventional. it requires faith in the certification process, but with conventional you KNOW you are getting food full of all sorts of horribly nasty shit. and organic is still the next best option when you cant grow it yourself or get it from specific providers that you have researched yourself. |
| 12/31/12 12:17 PM | |
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sewich
Member Since: 7/13/09 Posts: 5787 |
Kamikaze Emu -It has nothing to do with it being " organic" its just more fresh if you big it from a chicken farm. The eggs you buy in a store are months old where as if you have a legit farm raised option they are days old. Nothing to do with any organics.Since93 -PrisonMattressPuncher -The "quality" is better? Wtf does this even mean?
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| 12/31/12 12:22 PM | |
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sewich
Member Since: 7/13/09 Posts: 5788 |
Organic foods in a store are still being sprayed with plenty of pesticides / herbicides . Most if the time they reak more havok on the land due to the over use of sub par sprays which leads to more run off.
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| 12/31/12 12:43 PM | |
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rrg1
Member Since: 3/14/02 Posts: 4875 |
I'm reading Omnivores Dilemma and it talks about the organic thing. Really informative but boring. Anyway, it was kind of a shocker to read about what "organic" really means since the government practically owns the word lol. Needless to say there's a lot of crap that is allowed so the big companies are allowed to marked "organic" foods to increase their profits. It's not as clean or great as one might think. Especially when it comes to meats. |
| 12/31/12 12:45 PM | |
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Kamikaze Emu
32
Member Since: 6/9/10 Posts: 1801 |
sewich -Kamikaze Emu -It has nothing to do with it being " organic" its just more fresh if you big it from a chicken farm. The eggs you buy in a store are months old where as if you have a legit farm raised option they are days old. Nothing to do with any organics.Since93 -PrisonMattressPuncher -The "quality" is better? Wtf does this even mean? The colour of the yolk is a function of the chicken feed, not typically a by-product of age. You are correct on the runniness of the eggs being related to show fresh they are. |
| 12/31/12 1:30 PM | |
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G-S-D
30
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 1227 |
Organic foods are just a marketing term and in fact many foods that claim to be organic are no different in health benefits then conventional farmed foods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming The weight of the available scientific evidence has not shown a consistent and significant difference between organic and more conventionally grown food in terms of safety, or nutritional value. In 2009 a review of all the relevant research comparing organic to conventionally grown foods was carried out by the United Kingdom's Food Standards Agency which concluded: No evidence of a difference in content of nutrients and other substances between organically and conventionally produced crops and livestock products was detected for the majority of nutrients assessed in this review suggesting that organically and conventionally produced crops and livestock products are broadly comparable in their nutrient content... There is no good evidence that increased dietary intake, of the nutrients identified in this review to be present in larger amounts in organically than in conventionally produced crops and livestock products, would be of benefit to individuals consuming a normal varied diet, and it is therefore unlikely that these differences in nutrient content are relevant to consumer health. A review of potential health effects analysed eleven articles, concluding, "because of the limited and highly variable data available, and concerns over the reliability of some reported findings, there is currently no evidence of a health benefit from consuming organic compared to conventionally produced foodstuffs. It should be noted that this conclusion relates to the evidence base currently available on the nutrient content of foodstuffs, which contains limitations in the design and in the comparability of studies." Individual studies have considered a variety of possible impacts, including pesticide residues. Pesticide residues present a second channel for health effects. Comments include, "Organic fruits and vegetables can be expected to contain fewer agrochemical residues than conventionally grown alternatives; yet, "the significance of this difference is questionable". Nitrate concentrations may be less, but the health impact of nitrates is debated. Lack of data has limited research on the health effects of natural plant pesticides and bacterial pathogens. The higher cost of organic food (ranging from 45 to 200%) could inhibit consumption of the recommended 5 servings per day of vegetables and fruits, which improve health and reduce cancer regardless of their source. |
| 12/31/12 1:50 PM | |
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sewich
Member Since: 7/13/09 Posts: 5792 |
Kamikaze Emu -My chickens are feed a typical commercial feed and the yolks are a lot different than those bought in a store so I will take my real world results over hyperbole.sewich -Kamikaze Emu -It has nothing to do with it being " organic" its just more fresh if you big it from a chicken farm. The eggs you buy in a store are months old where as if you have a legit farm raised option they are days old. Nothing to do with any organics.Since93 -PrisonMattressPuncher -The "quality" is better? Wtf does this even mean?
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