UnderGround Forum

OtherGround Forum

Training Forums

States Forums

10 Pro-Gun Myths: Shot Down

[ 1 ] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next»»

1/31/13 11:02 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Tidbits Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 8269	http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check FACTS, not opinion. how long before the source is attacked?

1/31/13 11:03 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
hankhill Member Since: 1/11/06 Posts: 10253	Blue namer please.... You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:06 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
AlexanderTheGOAT 41 Member Since: 1/28/11 Posts: 13666	"how long before the source is attacked?" Probably just as soon as people who post from Breibart or whoever. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:10 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Rogans secret stash 26 Member Since: 9/1/11 Posts: 872	Yawn. 240k subscribers and bi-monthly. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:10 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

awilson82 29 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 11/12/07
Posts: 15826

"Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership."

Wow no shit so states where people have guns have more gun murders? Whoda thunk it. Except who fucking cares TOTAL murder rates matter not firearm murder rates. The murder rate in Wyoming and Montana where gun ownership is high and gun murders are supposedly high are 3.2 and 2,8 respectively. Which is well below national average. Not to mention why do total gun deaths matter more than half are suicides.

1/31/13 11:12 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
awilson82 29 Member Since: 11/12/07 Posts: 15827	In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides." Many of which are ruled justifiable or at worst manslaughter and the source is quoting the amount reported not the amount of convictions. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:13 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

Tidbits

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 8270

awilson82 -
"Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership."

Wow no shit so states where people have guns have more gun murders? Whoda thunk it. Except who fucking cares TOTAL murder rates matter not firearm murder rates. The murder rate in Wyoming and Montana where gun ownership is high and gun murders are supposedly high are 3.2 and 2,8 respectively. Which is well below national average. Not to mention why do total gun deaths matter more than half are suicides.

LOL. Talk about cherry picking your argument. The FACT is guns kill, period. Will people still kill others or commit suicide without them? Yes, but easy access to them means a greater chance of lethality (success).

1/31/13 11:13 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

paw 509 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32711

Tidbits - http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

FACTS, not opinion.

how long before the source is attacked?

The source won't have to be attacked, as some of their "facts" are very shady. To take just one example,

Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?

Japan isn't a good example as gun ownership is extremely restricted in Japan. "In Japan, civilians are not allowed to possess handguns, hunting guns without specific approval⁵, military rifles, machine guns, any gunpowder charged firearm, certain air guns²⁶ and imitation firearms^38"

Looks like a strawman to me.

Basically, LaPierre is asserting that violent video games can increase violence. Is that true? I wouldn't doubt it. A quick search showes that violent video game use increases aggression (http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2000/04/video-games.aspx), so actual violence seems possible to this layperson. The degree to which violent video games casue violence (and what constitutes a "violent" video game and such) I leave to those familiar with that field of study.

1/31/13 11:15 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
WidespreadPanic 279 Member Since: 12/29/06 Posts: 8975	Gun violence and crime have gone down with increased gun sales in Virginia recently. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:15 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

Tidbits

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 8271

awilson82 -

In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides."

Many of which are ruled justifiable or at worst manslaughter and the source is quoting the amount reported not the amount of convictions.

"Many of which" LOL again. So if you have an increase of 7-10% in your rate of homicide and 1% of those homicides are justifed guess what? You still have an increase in homicides. killing is killing, justified or not. Also your term "Many of which" is BS. Provide numbers not an opinion.

1/31/13 11:15 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

Biggy 13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 8316

this was one of the decent counter arguments till he got swarmed by anti-gun people:

"Owning a gun has been linked to higher risk of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun." So... what's the problem with this? As long as they keep it in the family, I'm not sure it matters. Of course, the Newtown crazy freak didn't do that and it would be nice to keep that sort of thing from happening, but I'm not sure I really care if some gun nut takes himself out.

I know this is a minor point, but I agree with everything in the post so that's all I got. The world would be a better place if everyone who owned a gun would just shoot themselves. Phone Post

1/31/13 11:16 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Chief Meteorologist Brick Tamland Member Since: 7/12/10 Posts: 2601	In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides. Good. Justifiable homicides are justifiable. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:16 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

New Leaf 1.0

Member Since: 3/6/06
Posts: 18850

The source should be attacked, just like you would attack it if the source was known to provide dishonest and biased information the other direction.

Anyone who intentionally reads Fox/Huffington/Mother Jones has no place in a real conversation about issues. Those who intentionally seek misinformation should be ignored.

BTW - there are plenty of "facts" that dispute the "facts" in that article.

Let me know when you can overcome the "fact" that Switzerland has the third highest rate of gun ownership in the world and one of the lowest incidents of violence around. I can produce "fact" after "fact" after "fact" to dispute your "facts." The difference being I use legitimate sources and actually fact check my facts, instead of just assuming they are true because they support what I want to be true.

I still remember you producing a list of "facts" about how much profit a bunch of big companies made and your "facts" were easily disputed by public records and you still thought they counted as "facts." I believe that list came from mother jones too.

1/31/13 11:16 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Rabadaba 10 Member Since: 5/6/11 Posts: 235	Sub for the article You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:17 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Chief Meteorologist Brick Tamland Member Since: 7/12/10 Posts: 2602	Also, Tidbits will be the FIRST person to attack the source of an article on Drudge Report. Go fuck your hypocritical ass OP. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:17 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

awilson82 29 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 11/12/07
Posts: 15828

"Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5"

Fact one while technically true is true because armed civilians are not allowed in almost all the locations where the shootings happen. The shooter in the I believe it was Oaklahoma mall shooting was seen by the shooter and aimed at him but didnt fire because he could hit bystanders behind the shooter. As often happens as soon as the shooter saw armed resistance he took his own life.

Id rather take the 1 in 5 chance and have an armed guard who could respond to a shooting than have not.

1/31/13 11:19 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
sicko 126 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 23251	TTT for later You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:21 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
juszczec 64 Member Since: 2/23/03 Posts: 10790	I'd be interested in seeing corroborating statistics from a site that has no agenda to push. I don't read Mother Jones enough to know if they've got a bias. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:21 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Sagiv Lapkin 1337 Member Since: 3/23/07 Posts: 35244 NerdQuestionOfTheDay.com, Owner	LOL @ these "facts". You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:23 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Chief Meteorologist Brick Tamland Member Since: 7/12/10 Posts: 2603	FACT: Assault weapons and mag limit bans did not stop Columbine. They also would not have stopped the Virginia Tech shooting, Aurora shooting, or Newtown shooting. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:24 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
awilson82 29 Member Since: 11/12/07 Posts: 15829	Half of their sources took in information and use unscientific methods to lead into the answers they want. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:25 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

angryinch

Member Since: 3/14/04
Posts: 96163

awilson82 -
"Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership."

Wow no shit so states where people have guns have more gun murders? Whoda thunk it. Except who fucking cares TOTAL murder rates matter not firearm murder rates. The murder rate in Wyoming and Montana where gun ownership is high and gun murders are supposedly high are 3.2 and 2,8 respectively. Which is well below national average. Not to mention why do total gun deaths matter more than half are suicides.

hrmm...I have a couple of guns. They are sitting somewhere in my house. To the best of my knowledge, none of my guns has ever gotten up and walked out of the house by itself and gone and shot someone all on its own. The fact is, guns do not kill people.

1/31/13 11:26 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
angryinch Member Since: 3/14/04 Posts: 96164	awilson82 - "Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys. Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0 This is a blatant lie. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:27 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
PINKsinglet 10 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 9780	please site source of a gun killing someone to debunk Myth #2 Ive never seen or heard of a gun kiling anyone. Hell i thought they were lifeless pieces of metal. You have ignored this user.

1/31/13 11:27 AM

Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

awilson82 29 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 11/12/07
Posts: 15830

Tidbits -
awilson82 -
"Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership."

Wow no shit so states where people have guns have more gun murders? Whoda thunk it. Except who fucking cares TOTAL murder rates matter not firearm murder rates. The murder rate in Wyoming and Montana where gun ownership is high and gun murders are supposedly high are 3.2 and 2,8 respectively. Which is well below national average. Not to mention why do total gun deaths matter more than half are suicides.

LOL. Talk about cherry picking your argument. The FACT is guns kill, period. Will people still kill others or commit suicide without them? Yes, but easy access to them means a greater chance of lethality (success).

How is that cherry picking the argument? They try to make a point about the high gun ownership states when they have some of the overall lowest murder rates its stupid and misleading like most of the list.

Which is better a murder rate that is 100% gun murders but a exponentially lower murder rate or a murder rate that is 0% gun murders but the overall murder rate is 5x higher?

[ 1 ] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next»»

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.

Type:	Standard Video
Source (embed code):
Body: [HTML] [Text]