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HolyGround >> To atheists
| 5/10/12 10:21 AM | |
bjjdna
26 
Edited: 05/10/12 10:22 AM Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2832 |
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| 5/10/12 10:23 AM | |
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bjjdna
26
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2833 |
TheStewedOwl - <quote>bjjdna: The data suggests that stress-related disease is a function of lack of social connectedness. That's oversimplifying the data. Many people with extremely strong social networks nevertheless die of stress-related diseases. Diet, genetics, occupation, marriage, fertility, age, level of physical conditioning, etc., can be and probably are greater determinants of susceptibility to stress-related disease. And what is it that religion/christianity offers...fellowship, lifelong group memebership in the christian cool club, hope for eternity in heaven with your loved ones It also offers the possibility of eternal damnation, the need for continual self-examination of conscience, a rigorous moral code with concrete eternal punishment and the prospect of disappointing one's creator by one's actions,the financial cost of tithing and charity, a vastly limited sexual life, the possibility for increased social friction coincident with a wider social network (if you've ever witnessed internal church politics, you'd know what I mean), opprobrium from a hostile popular culture and media, and in some countries, the risk of imprisonment, torture, and death for professing or practicing one's faith (or proselytizing the "wrong" faith. And these would reduce stress how...? christianity is a system that provides a book of ulitmiate knowledge from the mind of god - a god that responds preferentially to your wishes What religion are YOU looking at? - a religion that offers predictability and social support - a religion that offers eternal life despite the pain and suffering on earth. I would agree (despite the potential costs of religious belief that I outlined above) that religious belief, or more narrowly, religiosity, as practiced in the western world, does offer tangible benefits as well as spiritual ones. The research shows active Christians tend to be happier, attend a higher educational level, are less likely to commit suicide, are less likely to report depression, are less likely to practice substance abuse, report a higher level of sexual satisfaction, are more likely to exercise, are less likely to be obese, are less likely to smoke, live longer and enjoy less morbidity in their senior years, are more likely to have children, contribute more to charity, than non-religious people Heck, you could form a utilitarian version of Pascal's Wager from all that data. If religious practice leads to an arguably better life (as opposed to a grumpy, lonely, obese life with a smoker's cough and an early death)...one could make that argument that it is not "rational" not to believe, from the perspective of self-interest and the desire to make the world a better place. This was a study on baboons looking at their social behaviors and what produces the highest level of stress causing hormones. Sapolsky would dart these baboons at different times and then only had minutes to measure their hormones. It turns out that when one baboon gets agitated and thumps another, it sets off a chain reaction of thumpings down the hierarchy until the lowest ranking member gets thumped - and then it's all good again. His research is really interesting stuff Anywhooo...What he found from studying them for his entire careers was that social isolation/connectedness is a BIG DAWG player in stress response/disease. When it comes to stress-related diseases, having support is crucial, although I'm sure you can belong to strong social networks and still have stress related problems. Unhealthy humans/baboons often have these elevated resting levels of stress hormones. Stress results in the release adrenalin and glucocorticoids, which increases heart rate, energy level, etc. It's an ancient evolutionary adaptation and all vertebrates have it because we share a common ancestor. What's different is that most animals turn on the stress response when they are about to be eaten or about to fight..etc - whereas most humans and baboons don't usually have to worry about those real life or death stressors Humans have much more behavioral flexibility than baboons and can overcome low social status and isolation by belonging to multiple hierarchies. The geek that gets made fun of at school - that low ranking kid in one group setting can still socially bond and be king of his computer club. Humans have a huge range of options for support and many religious organizations offer an extremely supportive social network. If your support system not only offers support when times are tough - but also eg eternal life, 72 virgins, and a "get out of hell free card" if you're really sorry and genuinely accept Jesus as your savior, etc etc - I can see where joining that club would provide health benefits |
| 5/14/12 6:05 PM | |
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BigSherm
Member Since: 4/14/03 Posts: 24949 |
I think I've seen a similar thread to this once before |
| 7/20/12 9:36 PM | |
SKARHEAD
265
Member Since: 5/11/04 Posts: 33577 |
Da playmaker17 - I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/> You obviously don't understand why they dismiss other Gods..not really. There bis actually no parrallel you can draw between them and you. |
| 7/22/12 8:18 AM | |
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pickula
3
Member Since: 5/31/05 Posts: 984 |
Fix yo gis, tie yo bouts -Benedictus - If God is just make believe similar to Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, why all the effort and anger to try and "disprove" God? Also, how did you come to believe there is no God? As a group who calls themselves rational and scientific, what scientific prrofs do you have there is no God?I don't believe anyone worth having a conversation with would start out with such a stupid statement. +1 Why is it that theists cannot grasp the basic fact that the burden of proof is theirs? I can only assume that they have no proof worthy of the name, so they come up with this ridiculous 'prove there is no god' nonsense. |
| 8/14/12 1:12 PM | |
DyingBreed
7
Member Since: 1/18/03 Posts: 15913 |
Micha3l Kn1ght -Why should he do what you think he should do? Maybe he WANTS to try to understand something he lacks understanding in for the sake of learning something. YOU are the one who should have remained silent on this one :)Benedictus - If God is just make believe similar to Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, why all the effort and anger to try and "disprove" God? Also, how did you come to believe there is no God? As a group who calls themselves rational and scientific, what scientific prrofs do you have there is no God?Why do you care too argue about it? Sense a little spite in you. You shouldn't worry about other peoples beliefs, worry about your own rather then trying too find understanding in something you don't believe in clearly. Idc about religion do I don't ask about it. You should do the same here. 
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| 9/14/12 2:00 PM | |
Nakedwelshman
50
Member Since: 9/3/10 Posts: 1112 |
When you base your life, morals and opinions on ONE BOOK (a book that includes talking snakes, talking shruberries, incest, people turning to salt, an ENTIRE planets eco system fitting into 1 ark, and no references to our universe, dinosaurs etc) you're not allowed to engage in logical conversations The idea of basing your life and religion on Harry Potter is seen as moronic and that's 7 books! But 1 really old book? Religion!
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| 9/14/12 8:32 PM | |
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explodin
Member Since: 6/25/05 Posts: 2264 |
pickula -To convince you there is a God the burden would be on the theist. For you to convince a theist there is no God the burden would be on you.Fix yo gis, tie yo bouts -Benedictus - If God is just make believe similar to Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, why all the effort and anger to try and "disprove" God? Also, how did you come to believe there is no God? As a group who calls themselves rational and scientific, what scientific prrofs do you have there is no God?I don't believe anyone worth having a conversation with would start out with such a stupid statement.
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| 9/15/12 8:54 AM | |
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Ali
375
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 9013 |
are we just discussing the rules of debate? Like in debate clubs? Because that's something like a "burden of persuasion", maybe, given some circumstances. It's not a "burden of proof" in the usual sense. We start with the null hypothesis... |
| 9/19/12 4:36 PM | |
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jimbonice
4
Member Since: 8/13/12 Posts: 66 |
I'm curious as to what acts that I could commit that god may smite me for? I likely have committed a few, and have still managed 51 years on this earth. 
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| 9/19/12 8:02 PM | |
Malvert the Janitor
463
Member Since: 9/5/11 Posts: 4480 |
jimbonice - I'm curious as to what acts that I could commit that god may smite me for? I likely have committed a few, and have still managed 51 years on this earth.It's called celestial down-sizing. Consider yourself lucky.....
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| 9/30/12 11:20 AM | |
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Outlaw'd by Lytle
Member Since: 2/14/11 Posts: 5104 |
Benedictus - Also, the proof for me that there is a God is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.Lol.
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| 10/4/12 6:15 PM | |
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jimbonice
4
Member Since: 8/13/12 Posts: 124 |
Malvert the Janitor -An omnipotent good would catch those things; unless he's a slacker.jimbonice - I'm curious as to what acts that I could commit that god may smite me for? I likely have committed a few, and have still managed 51 years on this earth.It's called celestial down-sizing. Consider yourself lucky.....
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| 10/5/12 12:41 PM | |
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770mdm
10
Member Since: 7/24/08 Posts: 1476 |
An impassioned, erudite, thoroughly researched, and beautifully reasoned book from one of the most admired religious thinkers of our time that argues not only that science and religion are compatible, but that they complement each other—and that the world needs both. R. Jonathan Sacks, arguably the greatest living Jewish theologian, recently published The Great Partnership: God, Science and the Search for Meaning, which I hope to discuss at length soon. Chapter 11 of this book is titled “Darwin” and in it R. Sacks accepts evolution of all life, including humans, and the mechanism “survival of the fittest.” http://www.amazon.com/dp/0805243011/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=hirhurimmusin-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=0805243011&adid=1521SNRVEN7BDN8DVK67
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| 10/11/12 9:13 PM | |
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BigmikeVancity
Member Since: 9/5/12 Posts: 27 |
Benedictus - If God is just make believe similar to Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, why all the effort and anger to try and "disprove" God? Also, how did you come to believe there is no God? As a group who calls themselves rational and scientific, what scientific prrofs do you have there is no God?What scientific proof do u have that Bigfoot doesn't exist? I believe in god but u sound very stupid! Why should anyone have to prove to u there isn't a god?
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