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Wrestling >> Wrestlers and Catch Wrestling
| 3/7/09 9:34 PM | |
Victor Parlati
Edited: 03/07/09 9:57 PM Member Since: 5/16/04 Posts: 913 |
A WHOLE NEW CATCH PERSPECTIVE... is needed, imo. And here it is: Cacc is a great wrestling/grappling/fighting art that almost disappeared. And for those of us who are interested in reviving it, learning it, using it, teaching it, etc... then a SHOTGUN APPROACH needs to be taken - and a REFUSAL to get bogged down in the politics (and the economics) of cacc is an absolute must. For example, what I have done over the last 8 years or so in this regard is this - and I highly recommend this or something similar... Many, many, many hours/weeks/months, etc. spent watching, rewatching, analyzing, and most importantly, taking to the mat the following cacc materials: Virtually all of Tony Cecchine's vids... Yoshiaki Fugiwara's two vids... the same for Dick Cardinal, Billy Robinson, Josh Barnett's "Attacking the Guard" vid... Kazushi Sakuraba's instructional vid... Randy Couture's vids and his book, "Wrestling for Fighting" - since the evolution of cacc also included elements of Greco-Roman... Mark Shultz's vid... Wade Shalles' vid...(both of which are very helpful for pure wrestling)... and the same for Sakuraba, Couture, and Barnett's fights (get/make copies of them and study constantly). And get the Wigan (Lancashire) catch documentary, "Catch, the hold not taken." And forget all the bullshit (and there's quite a bit) that comes from Jake Shannon, and all the "I'm the REAL American catch and all the rest are showholds" jive coming from Tony Cecchine. And if you have the opportunity to spend any time with any of these people directly - do it. |
| 3/8/09 2:43 PM | |
Philanderer
19 
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 1556 |
LOL@ e.kaye. Why don't you go enter some grappling tournaments to prove that Tony's stuff works since you insist it does? You'd be backing up what you claim, but you'd get killed though, so instead you just hide behind your computer where its safe. You're just a talker, and if all your campagning actually helped tony, he wouldnt have had to cancel 2 seminars Why don't you host some seminars? You have an MBA, I'm sure you'd do a great job running it. Except that you know any seminar with Tony Cecchine is going to be a money loser. So youll never put your money where your mouth is, like tony's FORMER friends did. Again, youre just a talker. No, You won't do anything other than post online. Tony must be glad to have you, a talker, rather than people who will compete and host seminars and do things that will make him actual money. You're the one still stuck in 2004 and the fantasy that Tony is doing well. It's no fanatsy that he's had to cancel 2 seminars in 2007 AND 2008, or that he ripped off the entire ICWA (again- the copyright proves this). It's no fantasy that people know about his living situation or what kind of parent he is. People don't respect deadbeat dads- theres no way that coming to light helped his reputation. The reason mma.tv has as much sponsorship as it does and UFC fighters posting here is because it is the most visited forum and best forum online. People will go here for there info, not bullshido Enjoy your little cecchine fantasy world, ekaye, I prefer reality. Tony can partly thank you for his "success" |
| 3/8/09 2:46 PM | |
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de braco
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 183 |
WRONG Victor.SHOTGUN APPROACH causes havok and wavy reply.Videos purchased from tony on internet without license to drive.After watching many times,refund unavaiable.Only technique certifiable by jake unbreakable or breakable with certification. |
| 3/8/09 5:36 PM | |
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Victor Parlati
Member Since: 5/16/04 Posts: 914 |
"SHOTGUN APPROACH causes havoc and wavy reply." ***THANKS for explaining how and why that is. Asserting something is true without any underlying rationale is just not very persuasive, is it?! ............................. "Videos purchased from Tony on internet without license to drive." ***SO ??? ................................. "After watching many times,refund unavailable." ***AND you should be entitled to a refund after watching a video MANY TIMES because of what reason, did you say? (Any video, not just Tony Cecchine's). .................................. "Only technique certifiable by jake unbreakable or breakable with certification." ***PLEASE stop this foolery. Jake is no more of an authority on cacc than at least 100 other people who could be mentioned. He's a businessman first and foremost who's been looking to cash in on catch for the longest. Fine. And he does a good job of filming,producing, and selling videos by REAL cacc authorities. But that's as far as it goes. A shotgun approach when there's a scarcity of instructors, schools, videos, books, etc. clearly makes a lot of sense. |
| 3/8/09 6:20 PM | |
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PoundforPound
70
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 15180 |
A certification process overseen by Billy Robinson is about as authoritative as one can get, surely? |
| 3/8/09 9:03 PM | |
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de braco
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 184 |
Wrestling of any kind is a based on demostratable skill,not certification bought from jake or anyone else. |
| 3/8/09 9:13 PM | |
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PoundforPound
70
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 15184 |
But who better to judge demonstratable skill when it comes to catch wrestling than Billy Robinson? |
| 3/8/09 10:12 PM | |
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Victor Parlati
Member Since: 5/16/04 Posts: 915 |
I'm going to rest my case right here, right now - as I have no more time or patience for the Jake Shannon-driven nonsense that has been perpetrated on this and numerous other wrestling website forums over the last number of years. (Including a website forum that Shannon purposely crashed - and another, ie.- the catch forum right here on mma.tv - that he purposely misled Kirik into eliminating under false pretenses - as he (Jake) thought he was about to be exposed as the guy who DID crash the former wrestling site that I just alluded to). BUT BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND: How anyboody interested in cacc could pooh-pooh the idea of studying what Fugiwara, Barnett, Sakuraba, Cecchine, and the others mentioned have done is beyond any reasonable comprehension?! This is CLEARLY all about some sort of Cecchine vs. Shannon thing - and I can't be bothered with this crap anymore. AGAIN, for those who are truly interested in cacc: FORGET THE POLITICS AND THE ECONOMICS - AND TAKE A SHOTGUN APPROACH. What's gone on right on this thread alone should open your eyes as to just how much personal animosities, politics, and economic interests have polluted the atmosphere. End of story. |
| 3/8/09 11:32 PM | |
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de braco
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 185 |
Robinson is without a doubt one of the best authorities on cacc,but the certification thing is a move by jake to discredit anyone not holding certification from his orginization. |
| 3/9/09 12:17 AM | |
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e. kaye
Edited: 04/01/09 4:03 PM Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 19953 |
Philanderer-You are clueless. You know nothing about my relationship with Tony or what I have done for him. You have some problem, I am not sure what. Whatever it is, it is pathetic. Really childish. Really lame. |
| 3/9/09 5:36 AM | |
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temp220239
Member Since: 5/4/06 Posts: 1 |
Check out the website I started www.americancombatassn.com I'm co-writing a book on The History of American Submission Wrestling with Erik Paulson and hosting some seminars to teach amateur wreslers catch techniques in addition to promoting old school combo shows. I wanted 2 join in on these forums because I'm a boxer amateur wrestler judoka and pro wrestler who was fortunate enough to be trained by Billy Wicks and Johnny Huskey on catch. Catch as catch can is great for those with an amateur wrestling background. It can be challenging if you don't have a wrestling or judo background but if you do it can help you make the world your playground. I won the Florida Submission wrestling championship and Southeast regionals using catch based techniques. In addition, I've recommended it to my wrestling buddies and they love it. Join our website (membership will be affordable I'm working with Erik to figure an amount) and buy the book Rough and Tumble: A History of American Submission Wrestling when It comes out in June. Alot of stuff in their people don't know and it's presented in an entertaining fashion. Also if you live in NC check out Huskey Submissions, if u live in Jersey check out NJ Toe hold club, Ca CSW of course, and TX Texas Catch Wrestling Club. I put my stamp of approval on those clubs. |
| 3/9/09 5:41 AM | |
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temp220239
Member Since: 5/4/06 Posts: 2 |
Also I feel it's the man not the style and you should do whatever works for you. I love catch but I'm a big powerful guy and I have friends who are not and love BJJ. I say learn everything, do what works for you, respect all styles and JOIN WWW.AMERICANCOMBATASSN.COM Even if you aren't a fight fan our beach wrestling vids w/ Denise Milani will entice and "entertain" you. Also buy the book I'm writing with Erik ie Rough and Tumble: A History of American Submission Wrestling. |
| 3/9/09 5:49 AM | |
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temp220239
Member Since: 5/4/06 Posts: 3 |
I'm reading this back and forth stuff and I must say that Jake has been a great help to me and the book. I honestly didn't know he had a certification program but he's got top Olympic and submission wrestlers and mma fighters affiliated with him. I also don't think it's really worthwhile to insult people who are trying to promote catch or fighting in general. For example, so many people bash Tony Cechine. I don't know him but I did a technique series for my website with Mike Rosales and the Tx Catch Wrestling Club and they speak highly of Tony and his techniques. Erik Paulson also tells me that he likes Tony's techniques and his promotion of catch in general and he asked me to reach out 2 Tony for our book. Let's all spend our energies learning what works and if we're gonna go after anyone why not go after the SOB's that are trying to block states from allowing MMA competitions. |
| 3/9/09 9:13 AM | |
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de braco
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 186 |
Talk like that has no place on this thread.Even my havok and wavy reply statement was rebutted. |
| 3/9/09 9:33 AM | |
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Victor Parlati
Member Since: 5/16/04 Posts: 916 |
Excellent posts, temp... Keep up the good work, and keep us posted. I, for one, will definitely be on the lookout for your book with Erik. |
| 3/22/09 1:08 AM | |
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supersaiyan
Member Since: 3/20/02 Posts: 17188 |
TEMP HAS owned this thread n i agree... we gotta stop with the bashing of Tony vs Shannonvs Furey blah blahlbha ...stop it already...just train and learn. i have all of Tony C dvds except the Certification course...i thought they were ALL good imo Toney even replied within hours after i emailed him for my dvd package that hadnt arrived when i expected to.. He told me he sent it and it did arrive that day lol we even chatted a lil back n forth n he seemed like a cool guy and he did deliver as far as the products...(this coming from a BJJ guy)...just utilize and breed what works n combine catch with whatever you are studying now and enjoy. :) ss |
| 4/1/09 2:36 PM | |
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MOLON LAVE
Member Since: 2/24/07 Posts: 230 |
Catch Wrestling is a tremendous art. Especially the way Tony C teaches it. Let's not forget to mention Bruce Lee's coaching skills, either. However, just like anything else, it is the student's responsibility to put in the work in order to advance. |
| 4/1/09 4:17 PM | |
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supersaiyan
Member Since: 3/20/02 Posts: 17423 |
yep |
| 6/22/09 1:11 AM | |
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Victor Parlati
Edited: 06/22/09 1:18 AM Member Since: 5/16/04 Posts: 936 |
Has anybody seen the new Tony Cecchine video series? I just received an email about it, and it's called "Snap, no tap". Here's a link: http://www.paladinpress.com/product/1144/17 |
| 6/22/09 10:37 AM | |
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supersaiyan
Member Since: 3/20/02 Posts: 19899 |
yeah i got an email about a month ago or just under...n looks like good stuff... but i really am wondering how much stuff can actually be added on to everything he already has shown?? i am pretty sure i am solid with just the LOAH series alone lol :) |
| 6/22/09 1:13 PM | |
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Victor Parlati
Edited: 06/22/09 1:14 PM Member Since: 5/16/04 Posts: 937 |
What interests me (and I've got to see more) is the emphasis in the video teasers/promos about real world situations (ie.- how to mix some boxing, knee and elbow strikes, how to stay on your feet when the situation may call for it against a wrestler/grappler, how to mix catch wrestling with striking when on the ground, being aware of the geography/environment/other people...in other words, he takes a MMA/street self defense approach to catch wrestling. |
| 6/22/09 1:41 PM | |
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supersaiyan
Member Since: 3/20/02 Posts: 19910 |
yeah i can agree but i mean really how far different can it really be than MMA with MT/boxing ...i am sure u can utilize that stuff outta ya head n be creative and using simple techs...hell its not even techs --just call them "reactional reflexes". I am sure if have all his TRI-C stuff as i do u can come up with some of the stuff he charging us a grand or 2? for allover again imo. i would like to get it but dman 2gs?? |
| 6/22/09 1:43 PM | |
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supersaiyan
Member Since: 3/20/02 Posts: 19911 |
i am sure if i came to your place or we hooked up...if i just started making up stuff (practical) you be like .."damn i coulda figured that out" or the dreaded... "how come i didnt think of that?!!"" lol i used to do that in BJJ class all the time lol |
| 6/22/09 1:50 PM | |
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AtomicElbow
16
Member Since: 3/26/02 Posts: 994 |
MOLON LAVE - Catch Wrestling is a tremendous art. Especially the way Tony C teaches it. Let's not forget to mention Bruce Lee's coaching skills, either. LOL- how was anyone supposed to advance in the ICWA when he cancels it, doesn't respond to phone calls or emails, and blames US for not buying enough products?! Not that Tony Cecchine is worth spending money on, but you can't advance in his ranking system when he keeps getting rid of one org and starting another (from ICWA to "In the Loop" to whatever else it is now). he keeps ripping people off, there is no reason to advance in his worthless system. But this new product will fail like everything else Toni cecchine has done in life- there are enough dvds out there on self defense and mixing grappling with striking that there is no reason to donate any more money to him. People can just buy the tapes that Toni cecchine learned from instead of getting the information 2nd hand |
| 6/22/09 2:09 PM | |
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supersaiyan
Member Since: 3/20/02 Posts: 19915 |
temp22039- i appreciate and agree with your thread man all the way hahah...i am gonna check ya site :) |
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