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Traditional Martial Arts >> Is kali/escrima a tradional martial art?
| 1/19/12 2:43 PM | |
jrrrrr
4 
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 835 |
is kali/escrima a tradional martial art? I've been doing some cross training in Kali for the last few months for a few different reasons. Would kali/escrima be considered a tradional MA or something else? |
| 1/20/12 9:34 AM | |
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cdueck
2
Member Since: 7/31/08 Posts: 815 |
For the most part yes, things are done differently in the Phillipines so the tradition will look drastically different than other TMA's you might be thinking of. They were taught in small groups of family or friends and lessons of respect were taught at the end of a stick rather than demanded like in Karate. |
| 1/25/12 11:44 AM | |
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Willybone
60
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 44954 |
You also have Modern Arnis, where Remy's intention was to integrate all those TMA elements (belts, kata, uniforms) into their traditional martial art. |
| 1/27/12 7:39 PM | |
CharlesLewis
467
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 16536 |
It depends on the style. Some (like Sayoc or Atienza) are more modern, some more traditional. I do FCS which has a bit of both. |
| 3/17/12 6:21 PM | |
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Steven Lefebvre
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 366 |
Hello All, It all depends on the system. Most still try to have a link to their roots and have traditions, customs and formalities, that are derived from the past. Sayoc and Atienza kali, have their traditions and formalities just as does FCS. Charleslewis if yu see Tuhon Ray soon let him know I said hi! We have shared a few beers now and then! Gumagalang Guro Steve www.Bujinknadojo.net |
| 3/17/12 7:36 PM | |
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CharlesLewis
467
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 17320 |
Will do Guro... Ray will be in town sometime in April for a couple of days, and I am looking forward to training with him. |
| 3/25/12 1:13 AM | |
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KyokushinCatch
23
Member Since: 8/2/02 Posts: 5307 |
traditional FMAs probably been around longer than Karate or most Jujutsu, and is part of the native warrior culture, so yes it is traditional |
| 3/29/12 8:09 PM | |
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Tang Dynasty
Member Since: 3/26/12 Posts: 1 |
traditional! |
| 4/1/12 11:09 AM | |
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Gendai Budo
78
Member Since: 5/5/11 Posts: 582 |
KyokushinCatch - traditional I am interested in any research you have supporting this statement. My understanding is that (Japanese) Jujitsu is recorded in Kojiki (Record of Ancient Matters), finished in 712 A.D. and The Nihon Shoki (The Chronicles of Japan) finished in 720 A.D. Furthermore, Okinawan martial arts date to at least 1429 A.D. when King Sho Shin banned the practice. In contrast, I am unaware of a pre-Spain written history of Arnis/ Eskrima/Kali. |
| 4/2/12 2:34 PM | |
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KyokushinCatch
23
Member Since: 8/2/02 Posts: 5380 |
Gendai Budo -KyokushinCatch - traditional ah, nice question "most Jujutsu": the oldest extant jujutsu ryu-ha is Takenouchi-Ryu, founded in 1532; most of the surviving Ryu-Ha were founded much later than that (unless you believe the legendary origins some claim). prior to that, armed and unarmed battlefield grappling was called kogusoku or koshi mawari. other terms used were yawara and taijutsu. I believe the grappling recorded in Kojiki and Nihon Shoki is Sumai, the fore-runner of Sumo. the term Karate was not used until the late 19th century, when Okinawa was annexed by Japan. prior to that, Okinawan martial arts were termed Toudi or Uchinandi (karate is a Japanese pronunciation of the Okinawan word Toudi) when the Spanish arrived in the Philippines, they were met by warriors trained in a fully developed martial art (Kali or Pangkalikali). in one of the initial contacts, the famous Portuguese explorer Magellan (leading a Spanish expedition) was slain in battle by the Raja Lapu Lapu on a beach in Mactan in 1521. Lapu Lapu and his warriors are said to have used the indigenous Filipino Martial Art to defeat the Europeans and their Toledo steel swords all 3 cultures claim ancient origins to their fighting arts. my original post was not meant to marginalize the Japanese and Okinawan arts in any way (I practice and love the martial arts of all 3), simply to say that yes, the FMAs are a very old and traditional martial art |
| 4/5/12 1:01 PM | |
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John Frankl
17
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 1441 |
If a country survived, it had an army/martial arts or some sort. If not, it disappeared. But that is very, very different than saying what any teacher or system (Sayoc, Inosanto, Doce Pares,etc. etc.) is teaching today has any real and traceable connection to that past martial culture. |
| 4/5/12 2:38 PM | |
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jrrrrr
4
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 879 |
THe history of FMA had mixed with the overall MA of southeast asia for centuries. Silat, variants on kuntao, etc kinda have mixed with each other predating the Spanish. Going back to the ju-jitsu discussion, the Japanese real martial arts were archery and the way they used the sword. Ju-jitsu is their unarmed MA that came heavily from chin-na and shiao-shao(I always forget how to spell that properly..). As already mentioned, What we call karate came from Okinawa which mixed its indigenous MA with chinese MA, Fukien White Crane, etc. I think this thread went into different areas that I expected it would. When I meant tradional MA, I was thinking more to the question... Has FMA shown itself to be still servicable through the test of time? Does it need major modification to be street usable in our current time period or does it need some major fixin'? |
| 5/26/12 2:27 PM | |
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WidespreadPanic
283
Member Since: 12/29/06 Posts: 6551 |
IMO, a traditional MA has certain elements: 1. A structure which includes a 'master' and a head of the system to whom some obeisance is given; 2. A ranking structure which tells the students who is accomplished in the system; 3. A system of calisthenic moves, self-defenses, katas, one-steps, two man forms and routines that the student has to memorize and perform with minimal credibility; 4. Various tests, breaking, kata, limited sparring that the student has to pass to move up in ranking; 5. Various 'secret' moves or information which is only given to select students; 6. Sparring is usually done by giving points by judges as to what would be a deadly blow. It also lacks certain elements, or has restrictions 1. No striking to certain areas (head, groin, legs, back/spine) 2. No mounting after throws - the sequence 'stops' after indicating punches or armbars or locks 3. Pulling punches and kicks or making precise contact; 4. Limited safety equipment, or too much safety equipment; 5. No using certain moves which are considered 'outside' the system; 6. Limited resistance to various throws (taking a fall instead). To the extent that your FMA system has these elements , it could be considered a TMA. FWIW |
| 8/11/12 11:37 PM | |
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supersaiyan
Member Since: 3/20/02 Posts: 38227 |
ttt |
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