UnderGround Forum >> MMA has fickle fans

orcus - Lame that Nog considers the fight a win and insists Fedor's headbutt was deliberate. More fuel for the anti-Nogueira/anti-BTT/anti-Brazilian factions. I'm still rooting for him in the rematch, though Fedor is such a cool guy it's hard to root against him.

BJ > DORKUS - Average takedown defense, guard passed like it was nothing by a guy with a 75" waist, rocked standing.

Fedor by GnP TKO :30 round one. 
orcus -

orcus - I would say that Fedor actually doesn't have a weakness. You could say pretty truthfully that he's in the top 2 or 3 of his weight class in every area of fighting (striking, wrestling, submissions, conditioning, strategy). Which isn't to say he can't be beat; of course he can. But that's not the same as saying he has any real "holes" in his game.

orcus - "Werdum doesn't belong in the same cage. Sorry. At this point Overeem is the only HW they have left to offer. Werdum doesn't belong in the same cage, so send in the guy Werdum submitted in the second round. 

orcus -Fighters who get hit more often by big punchers are more likely to get KTFO than fighters who protect their chins. ...that's not a hypothetical. " Does he get hit more often by big punchers? We've only seen him hurt once (by Fujita) and he's been in the ring with Crocop, Schilt and Goodridge among others. So either he doesn't get hit more often by big punchers than anybody else (in which case it's not a "weakness" or "chink" particular to Fedor), or he does, in which case obviously he has a great chin and again it is not a weakness.

orcus - He's a great fighter -- it's possible he's the best -- and is indisputably #1, but there are a lot of guys now who are more well-rounded and dangerous in all areas than anyone Fedor has ever fought.

orcus -I think Fedor's faster than Hunt. He could keep moving and fling out those "long hooks" until he sees the opening for the takedown. Crocop and Hunt clinched about 900 times, and I doubt anyone can stop Fedor's takedowns from the clinch.

orcus - "He subbed them but he couldn't take them down, especially not from clinch." I knew someone would bring that up. But those guys are probably the two best wrestlers in the entire sport; no one else comes close to their level. Anyway, Yoshida subbed Hunt two years ago. Hunt is probably tough to sub because he's very strong, has no reaction to being hit, and is incredibly stocky. I'm sure the fight will happen sooner or later.

orcus - I think he'll lose to Nog, but that won't change the fact that Tim is one of the best heavies in the world.

elitesportsblogger - You needed to post an essay about that?

Orcus-  "Then, I read green namers cheering and hollering, and maybe I'm the weirdo for wanting truely competitive fights." With the exception of Crocop vs a can -- which Randleman is not -- it's hard to say which fights will end up being competitive and which won't. In any case, the point of the tournament is to weed out those who can't hang, and hopefully insure that the best are left standing. I guarantee there will be at least a couple surprises as to who advances and who is upset. It also makes sense that top fighters are matched against fighters most think have little chance, at least in the early round(s). Look at how it only takes one loss, in many instances, for people to start saying a fighter has been "exposed" or was "over-rated". If you put Fedor vs Crocop in round one, right off the bat, one of the top guys in the sport is going to be a first-round loser, and that's never going to be good for building a fighter. If you put one of them against a legit up-and-comer, you have the same problem, a fighter who could have been something made to look like a chump in his first really big exposure. 

orcus- Ogawa would crush him. He's almost as good at judo, better at striking, and MUCH larger. 

orcus-  Hence the half-kidding. But the fact remains that Fedor destroyed Goodridge in seconds and Gary just won a spot in the K-1 GP by beating two solid K-1 contenders. Fedor hits harder and has a better chin, and I think his middle kicks are also surprisingly good, having hurt both Fujita and Crocop with them (better than Gary's, though Gary has good low kicks these days). 

orcus-  I would be psyched as hell for this fight, but I think Fedor is just too big, too strong, and too fast. Lindland supposedly only weighed in at, iirc, 178 to fight Jeremy Horn in the IFL -- a fight at 185. He weighed in at 200 to fight Rampage at 205. Personally, I think Lindland would beat Coleman. Coleman is no threat standing and would gas sooner or later (by which I mean sooner). I also think he would have a great chance of beating Hunt. 

orcus-  "Fedor is rarely stronger than anyone he fights." Regardless of how his bench press compares to his opponents', he has appeared stronger than everyone he's ever fought in my eyes. Whether it's technique or muscle strength, what difference does it make if in practice, you do whatever you want with your opponents, physically? But I still can't imagine why you think Rampage is stronger just because he *looks* more muscular at 15-20lb lower bodyweight. "Actually, the same goes for Lindland. You guys can't think he is strong, can you? " Hell yes. You think an Olympic wrestler is not strong? And didn't someone say he can bench (I hate having to bring up bench press at all) 400lbs?

BJ > DORKUS - Brock would get subbed today. Two years from now (at most) he'd have a good chance.

I have the feeling Brock can take a good punch based on the size of his head. We already know he hits hard, we already know he has excellent takedowns.

orcus- "Why do people think the next fight will be different." I don't know. Guy vs Tito I & II; Frye vs Goodridge I, II, & III; Nogueira vs Herring I & II, vs Henderson I & II; etc, etc. Fedor's the best, but Nog can beat him. Sergei's not as good as Fedor, though, especially not at grappling. I do think he's a sharper boxer.

orcus-  Extremely good at judo/sambo, so that covers both takedowns and submissions. He's incredibly fast, possibly the fastest heavyweight in the sport, not just with punches but with everything. Great reflexes, balance, cardio.

orcus - "I disagree with Kharitonov being overrated, maybe he cannot beat Fedor, but he is good." Well, that's really all I meant. He is good, but I never saw anything to make me think he had a shot at beating Fedor, much less more of a shot than Crocop or Nogueira. As for Sergei/Nog, Nog at least matched him standing, took him down several times, passed his guard, got mount, landed some knees from side control, and had a couple sub attempts. It was a clear win for Nog imo. Like krycek pointed out, Nog has only finished two fights with strikes in his career (one over an MMA rookie, one over a greatly out-sized Kikuta), so anyone with good ground skills has a decent chance of making it the distance. Also, Nakamura/Barnett -- pretty much a foregone conclusion. Nak was tough and slippery as usual, but didn't have much of a chance. Barnett looked in great shape for him and his punching looked great. "yes it does" Whatever.

orcus - Fedor. Not to say either guy can't win, but I don't really see this as a tough fight to call.

But *objectively*, looking strictly at the scoring criteria (which are intended to make it as quantitative as possible and have as little of "who looked the worst" as can realistically be achieved), you could make a case for it being a very close fight (as I think I did). Which is not to say that I don't think Fedor established beyond all doubt that he is the best fighter in the sport, past or present.

orcus - "Fedor destroyed the most talented mma fighters in the world when he fought in Pride."<br /><br />You mean two of them (and by decision).

elitesportsblogger - This is ridicolous.

How old is the thread starter?

I thought this was a place to discuss MMA.

D241 - 
 <img src="http://us5.memecdn.com/ARE-YOU-NOT-ENTERTAINED_c_122129.jpg" alt="" />

elitesportsblogger - 

D241 - 
 <img src="http://us5.memecdn.com/ARE-YOU-NOT-ENTERTAINED_c_122129.jpg" alt="" />

hilarious pic. Ironically I'm from Vancouver too.