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UnderGround Forum >> Is Jones Black Belt Level?
| 9/23/12 7:42 PM | |
Smith1234
13 
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5066 |
Many people said Matt Hughes was black belt level grappling / BJJ even though he didn't have a formal rank. I don't know what level Jones would be in pure BJJ, but his wrestling, top game and subs in MMA look black belt to me. Subbing multiple black belts in title fights is also pretty very telling and relevant IMO. Greg should have someone give this man a black belt in something. |
| 9/23/12 7:43 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5067 |
his GnP is also very technical. He broke Shogun when he was faking reaching back for the leg and landed a ridiculous punch from guard. It was set up with technical brilliance. |
| 9/23/12 7:44 PM | |
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FinestScotch
3
Member Since: 7/16/12 Posts: 848 |
Freak body more than technique imo, even though he is very good. |
| 9/23/12 7:45 PM | |
yellow wrkahlc
37
Member Since: 6/9/12 Posts: 2011 |
Smith1234 - his GnP is also very technical. He broke Shogun when he was faking reaching back for the leg and landed a ridiculous punch from guard. It was set up with technical brilliance. Or he was just dicking around on the ground because he knew he could get away with it. |
| 9/23/12 7:47 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5069 |
^^ huh? Please go rewatch the fight. I have no idea what you are saying. He was going back for leg, Shogun opened up and a bomb was landed. It is not up for debate, the punch was set up and the set up worked. It is not only BJJ that can be technical...GnP can be too. |
| 9/23/12 7:50 PM | |
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Immaculata
46
Member Since: 12/14/03 Posts: 20794 |
You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one. |
| 9/23/12 7:51 PM | |
MdGeist
Member Since: 6/10/12 Posts: 840 |
That armbar escape sure wasn't black belt level |
| 9/23/12 7:52 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5071 |
LOL at criticizing an escape from a deep armbar. Classic BJJ mentality. Aren't you the guy who was talking shit on Chhay? |
| 9/23/12 7:53 PM | |
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Winston Wolf
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 32684 |
hes clearly blackbelt level |
| 9/23/12 7:54 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5072 |
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one. Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well. |
| 9/23/12 7:55 PM | |
Caught_clean
27
Member Since: 11/11/09 Posts: 2548 |
Smith1234 - LOL at criticizing an escape from a deep armbar. Classic BJJ mentality. Aren't you the guy who was talking shit on Chhay? He has some good BJJ but I dont see how you can defend his defense there. Standing up and shaking out of a extended armbar is literally the first thing you are taught not to do lol. More or less he was aware he was in deep trouble and was going to get a bit injured to get his arm out in a world title fight. He was willing for that to happen and still went on to fight multiple rounds and win. As far as his GnP I agree with above posters its pretty technical. |
| 9/23/12 7:57 PM | |
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sunderground
Member Since: 8/23/09 Posts: 1545 |
No. He'd get sub-ed in a bjj tournament. Look what Sean Roberts does to Benson Henderson in go-gi and a brown belt. Jones is an amazing MMA athlete but Roger would fuck him up. Apples and oranges kids. |
| 9/23/12 7:57 PM | |
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TX_432
105
Member Since: 10/25/10 Posts: 1864 |
FinestScotch - Freak body more than technique imo, even though he is very good.This 
|
| 9/23/12 8:02 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5073 |
^^ Wait a second. Nobody is saying he would beat or even survive against Roger. There is a wide spectrum of BJJ black belts out there. At the end of the day, Vitor is a long time Black Belt (I am not going to debate how he got it) and had a deep arm bar that he couldn't finish and he got beat by a novice escape from an unranked BJJ fighter. Then he himself got submitted. Does that matter? I think so. |
| 9/23/12 8:03 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5074 |
Jones beats prime Wandy, a black belt, by sub in submission grappling. |
| 9/23/12 8:04 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5075 |
Jones beats prime Wandy, a black belt, by sub in submission grappling. |
| 9/23/12 8:09 PM | |
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Immaculata
46
Member Since: 12/14/03 Posts: 20795 |
Smith1234 -Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one. I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi. |
| 9/23/12 8:12 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5077 |
^^ BJJ is not the only sport with a black belt. So let's slightly recast the point and call it submission grappling w/o the gi, ie, ADCC. ADCC is prestigous, and the top BJJ guys dominate (ie, there is a high correlation b/t BJJ and submission grappling). Is Jones a Black Belt in that? |
| 9/23/12 8:12 PM | |
Authority Figure
472
Member Since: 7/10/11 Posts: 5989 |
It really annoys me when people try to attribute martial arts ranks to people that have no desire to learn those martial arts. Matt was an excellent wrestler. His GnP is probably the best ever in my opinion. But he never wanted to be a BJJ practitioner. So I never had a desire to call him "Black Belt Level". Jones is a good wrestler. Who faced a BJJ Black Belt that's been fighting for 20 years. It's not an apples to oranges comparison. |
| 9/23/12 8:14 PM | |
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Winston Wolf
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 32686 |
Caught_clean -Smith1234 - LOL at criticizing an escape from a deep armbar. Classic BJJ mentality. Aren't you the guy who was talking shit on Chhay? bull shit..what belt level are u ? Im purple belt and shaking works well especially in MMA and it worked didnt it.Close counts for absolutly shit in MMA.Close so freaking what and if u ask me it wasnt anywhere near close |
| 9/23/12 8:14 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5078 |
I would add that "submission grappling" is more relevant for MMA than straight BJJ. And that the gi is (obviously) not relevant in MMA. |
| 9/23/12 8:16 PM | |
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Winston Wolf
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 32687 |
Immaculata -Smith1234 -Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one. Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ. |
| 9/23/12 8:16 PM | |
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Caught_clean
27
Member Since: 11/11/09 Posts: 2549 |
Matt and Jon didnt learn submissions and submission defence from wrestling though. They have trained jiu jitsu weather they, or you want to admit it. Its like when Matt beat Royce and claimed he didnt use any jiu jitsu even though he took the back with hooks, and was arm locking him from halfguard haha. BJJ isnt the end all of grappling though, and lets not forget a BJJ black belt doesnt factor in getting elbowed in the face etc, which Jon can use to open up guys on the ground, its part of his grappling game and he kills people with it. Maybe hes not a BJJ black belt skill wise, but he uses other ways to make his grappling strong. |
| 9/23/12 8:17 PM | |
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Caught_clean
27
Member Since: 11/11/09 Posts: 2550 |
Winston Wolf -Immaculata -Smith1234 -Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one. No high level ones I dont think. Like I said in MMA he uses other skills to enhance his grappling so who cares. |
| 9/23/12 8:21 PM | |
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Smith1234
13
Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5080 |
To get a black belt, you don't have to be high level black belt. You can be lower end black belt. I think Jones hangs with or beats Shogun, Wandy, little Nog, Vitor, and other "not high level" BJJ black belts in various types of grappling tournments. |
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