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Is Jones Black Belt Level?

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9/23/12 8:24 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Winston Wolf Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 32690	ya maybe against the Mundial champ or Jacare or Roger Gracie.But I think he would hold his own against anyone including them.Jacare couldnt sub Coutore and Jones is 100x the grappler Coutore is . You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:24 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
D241 Member Since: 11/20/09 Posts: 11191	I'd definitely say JBJ is a black belt level fighter. Frank Mir got his blackbelt in the octagon, I don't see why Jon Jones shoudn't get his based on what he's done in the cage. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:25 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
OnlyTheStrongSurvive 255 Member Since: 1/29/11 Posts: 6094	Im going to say no. I think 3 of his last 4 submissions came from simply breaking his opponents. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:25 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
chawkins 17 Member Since: 12/14/05 Posts: 2287	Is Jones Black Belt Level? No. And he never will be. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:25 PM

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MarcusRenatoBlackBelt

Member Since: 12/3/11
Posts: 1735

Punch a blackbelt in the face he is a brown belt. Punch him again, he is a purple.

A blackbelt covers 2 inches of your ass, YOU have to cover the rest . -- Royce Gracie

These timeless quotes give great insight on why JJ is a great grappler. Here is another reason...

POSITION before SUBMISSION.
Jones is a great wrestler.

The MMA blueprint for winning fights is by punching you in the face, shooting, taking you down, posturing up , and landing GNP....

examine Jon Jones. He takes you down, HE DOESNT HAVE TO POSTURE UP because his long torso. Great advantage. Landing GNP is easier when your elbow is where most people's fists are. Another great advantage for Jones.

However, there are great disadvantages to a longer body type. Takedown defense is harder for longer legs.

Defending submissions is harder for longer arms, and leglocks would be harder to defend as well.

9/23/12 8:26 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Winston Wolf Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 32691	Smith1234 - To get a black belt, you don't have to be high level black belt. You can be lower end black belt. I think Jones hangs with or beats Shogun, Wandy, little Nog, Vitor, and other "not high level" BJJ black belts in various types of grappling tournments. Jones would put an ass whooping on 99% of BBs in the USA his weight. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:27 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
uniquetechnique 9 Member Since: 3/28/02 Posts: 4088	Gaidojutsu Black Belt level but not BJJ Black Belt level Yet. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:28 PM

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D241

Member Since: 11/20/09
Posts: 11192

OnlyTheStrongSurvive - Im going to say no. I think 3 of his last 4 submissions came from simply breaking his opponents.

This is a different point of view than that of my own.

I can respect this view, however let me explain my view.

To me, a black belt means you are pretty bad ass. Bad ass in that when shit gets real, and you're in a fight, having a blackbelt means you can use your grappling ability to dictate and/or win the fight.

Of course in pure Jiu Jitsu, I can understand why he may not be considered a blackbelt b/c as a wrestler, I'm sure JBJ isn't nearly as comfortable off his back as he is when he's on top.

But basically, if you can use your grappling skills to win a fight, and you're doing so against professional fighters, some of which are "black belts" under regular jiu jitsu standards, I think Jon Jones is a blackbelt.

9/23/12 8:34 PM

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Smith1234 12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/2/06
Posts: 5082

Winston Wolf -
Smith1234 - To get a black belt, you don't have to be high level black belt. You can be lower end black belt.

I think Jones hangs with or beats Shogun, Wandy, little Nog, Vitor, and other "not high level" BJJ black belts in various types of grappling tournments.

Jones would put an ass whooping on 99% of BBs in the USA his weight.

A lot of people have no idea what it really means to say Black Belt. They think Roger, and even use him as the reason that Jon is not BB level (LOL).

They should be thinking 15 notches below Roger, that is the regular black belt...

9/23/12 8:36 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
uniquetechnique 9 Edited: 09/23/12 8:43 PM Member Since: 3/28/02 Posts: 4089	A highly skilled striker that can strike on his feet as well as striking on the ground plus, with a BJJ Blue belt and with Wrestling skills would dominate a BJJ Black belt that didn't know how to use BJJ in an MMA bout. BJJ in MMA is totally different, There are a lot of moves you shouldn't try to do against a striker. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:38 PM

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OnlyTheStrongSurvive 255 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/29/11
Posts: 6095

D241 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive - Im going to say no. I think 3 of his last 4 submissions came from simply breaking his opponents.

This is a different point of view than that of my own.

I can respect this view, however let me explain my view.

To me, a black belt means you are pretty bad ass. Bad ass in that when shit gets real, and you're in a fight, having a blackbelt means you can use your grappling ability to dictate and/or win the fight.

Of course in pure Jiu Jitsu, I can understand why he may not be considered a blackbelt b/c as a wrestler, I'm sure JBJ isn't nearly as comfortable off his back as he is when he's on top.

But basically, if you can use your grappling skills to win a fight, and you're doing so against professional fighters, some of which are "black belts" under regular jiu jitsu standards, I think Jon Jones is a blackbelt.

That makes sense. I guess it depends on what you define as blackbelt level. Hes a very good grappler in an mma sense, when you include the strikes and all.

I see him more as having very good guillotine out of scrambles, as many wrestlers do. He can get some weird ones with his height/length too. But in the pure grappling of an mma fight, I don't think hes quite on the level of the real blackbelts. We also don't know how he is off of his back.

Personally, I think he got Bader, Rampage and Vitor to give up or not defend his submissions by just totally breaking them. I'm bot trying to put down any of them either, it speaks to Jones greatness. Phone Post

9/23/12 8:40 PM

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Immaculata 35 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 12/14/03
Posts: 20796

Winston Wolf -
Immaculata -
Smith1234 -
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

9/23/12 8:44 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Smith1234 12 Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5084	^^ you seem smart. Stop being so dogmatic. Think beyond the gi. Looks beyond it to the core of what you HAVE seen without the gi. Base your answer on that. If it is helpful, base it on ADCC Jones vs any of the Pride LHWs who had BJJ black belts. Put the gi aside, please, for just a moment. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:45 PM

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Winston Wolf

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32695

Immaculata -
Winston Wolf -
Immaculata -
Smith1234 -
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

dude i trained at a high level BJJ club for years.I stand bye Jones would beat most blackbelts in BJJ with GI.

9/23/12 8:47 PM

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uniquetechnique 9 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 3/28/02
Posts: 4091

Immaculata -
Winston Wolf -
Immaculata -
Smith1234 -
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

People don't understand that with a Gi, you have to be more techinical. The great thing in a Gi is, You excercise your mind a lot more since there is more you have to do with a gi. What No-Gi practitioners hate the most about the gi..is the "handles" and most of the time when they try gi for the first time..they immediately hate it and decide not to enter the Gi world.

9/23/12 8:49 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Smith1234 12 Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5085	More BJJ guys should learn to wrestle and grapple no gi if they want to do MMA. Gi is overrated. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:50 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Smith1234 12 Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5086	I also don't think that high level BJJ w/ the gi is more technical than, for example, high level wrestling in a singlet. You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:50 PM

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Random Hero 22 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 11/24/10
Posts: 656

MMA is not BJJ. he would not have a chance in a BJJ tournament against a BB. just because he beats a BB in MMA doesnt mean he beats a BB in jiu jitsu. thats like saying Randy is better at boxing than Toney because he beat him in MMA. they are two different sports. MMA grappling isnt even close to no gi grappling nvm actual brazilian jiu jitsu. its a whole different game when you add strikes. untill they start ranking MMA fighters with belt colours, he is not a black belt. in my opinion his striking is a bigger asset to his ground game than his grappling is.

in short..... MMA is not BJJ!

9/23/12 8:50 PM

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Winston Wolf

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32698

uniquetechnique -
Immaculata -
Winston Wolf -
Immaculata -
Smith1234 -
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

People don't understand that with a Gi, you have to be more techinical. The great thing in a Gi is, You excercise your mind a lot more since there is more you have to do with a gi. What No-Gi practitioners hate the most about the gi..is the "handles" and most of the time when they try gi for the first time..they immediately hate it and decide not to enter the Gi world.

put a GI on Jones and take him to your local BJJ club and watch him run a clinic

9/23/12 8:51 PM

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uniquetechnique 9 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 3/28/02
Posts: 4092

Winston Wolf -
Immaculata -
Winston Wolf -
Immaculata -
Smith1234 -
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

dude i trained at a high level BJJ club for years.I stand bye Jones would beat most blackbelts in BJJ with GI.

Winston, question for you though. Has Jones ever tried the gi on? even once?
Diego Sanchez was training with us a while back during his UF days and stopped by Laimons many times...He put the Gi on..what do you think happened? He go man handled. Big Time.
If you put Jones in a Pure sport Jiu Jitsu match with a BJJ Black Belt, He would get put to sleep with even just a front choke..he would definitely hate the "handles" because they would be sweeping him left and right. Same went for Joe Daddy Stevenson when he put on the Gi as well.

9/23/12 8:53 PM

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Winston Wolf

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32699

Random Hero - MMA is not BJJ. he would not have a chance in a BJJ tournament against a BB. just because he beats a BB in MMA doesnt mean he beats a BB in jiu jitsu. thats like saying Randy is better at boxing than Toney because he beat him in MMA. they are two different sports. MMA grappling isnt even close to no gi grappling nvm actual brazilian jiu jitsu. its a whole different game when you add strikes. untill they start ranking MMA fighters with belt colours, he is not a black belt. in my opinion his striking is a bigger asset to his ground game than his grappling is.

in short..... MMA is not BJJ!

phhhhhh Jones would put a clinic if he enterend a BJJ tourney.You think hed be an easy match cause a guy wears a belt that is black.Jacare couldnt beat Coutore and Jones grappling blows Coutores away and Jacare is among the best at BJJ

9/23/12 8:53 PM

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Smith1234 12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/2/06
Posts: 5087

Random Hero - MMA is not BJJ. he would not have a chance in a BJJ tournament against a BB. just because he beats a BB in MMA doesnt mean he beats a BB in jiu jitsu. thats like saying Randy is better at boxing than Toney because he beat him in MMA. they are two different sports. MMA grappling isnt even close to no gi grappling nvm actual brazilian jiu jitsu. its a whole different game when you add strikes. untill they start ranking MMA fighters with belt colours, he is not a black belt. in my opinion his striking is a bigger asset to his ground game than his grappling is.

in short..... MMA is not BJJ!

But no gi grappling is close to wrestling, which is why non-elite/world level wrestlers like Matt Hughes and Mark Kerr can do well or very well at ADCC against BJJ guys.

9/23/12 8:54 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Kostakio 529 Member Since: 1/16/05 Posts: 49041	I wouldn't say he's a black belt but high purple or even a brown belt for sure. But of course, with his athleticism and confidence, he sure seems like it. I still can't wait for him to lose though... :) You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:55 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Gomrad Member Since: 7/21/09 Posts: 267	Gold Belt > Black Belt You have ignored this user.

9/23/12 8:56 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Smith1234 12 Member Since: 1/2/06 Posts: 5088	^^^ what purple belt do you know that would be Jon at anything grappling related? You have ignored this user.

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