Canada Forum >> fellow bjj heads please clear this up

11/2/12 1:17 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Claude Patrick 13 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2279	not fighting ability... no doubt he was a beast in his time.. but i think for the masses jiujitsu is about defense.. and wallid never showed little if any defensive ability in mma anyway.. didn't watch enough of his bjj matches to speak so maybe should shut my mouth.. easy to be the hammer tough to be the nail You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 1:30 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
deepu 3 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 15021	I didn't watch any of Royce's bjj matches so not sure lol. Wallid always had a hell of a top game. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 1:56 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Claude Patrick 13 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2280	i was just thinking more defensively.. wallid didnt show much but yes as a grappler he was for sure a much higher level You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 2:01 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Mark Stables 7 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 865	Royce was never a force in BJJ. Wallid on the other hand was a monster. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 2:04 PM

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Claude Patrick 13 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2281

yup.. speaking of monsters look who came out the one and only mark stables.. what's brother hows fun in the sun.?? shed some light on this for the new jacks here that maybe caught up in the hype.. i think it pretty safe to say without stepping on toes carlson guys were the no nonsense whatever works approach crew helio's a bit more interested in the esoteric aspects of the art mark what say yeee??? You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 2:17 PM

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Mark Stables 7 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 866

All good here My friend, I am loving Mexico. Absolutely correct in my opinion. Carlson should be credited with inventing no Gi jiu jitsu. He was much more open to new ideas and training methods. His philosophy was to always try to be on top and his guys were always known for there heavy passing game. But that style bred some crazy guard styles inside the Carlson Gracie academy. Most notably the De la Riva position. Ricardo was much smaller than most of his team mates and had to develop a way to stop getting smashed. Thus the De la Riva guard was born. This new thing called the Berimbolo is stuff De la Riva has been doing for years. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 2:55 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
deepu 3 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 15024	Mark, we're going to be hosting Carlson Jr and Julio Fernandez for a seminar on the 24th of Nov. Should be a fun time with two great instructors with tons of stories :) We'll be advertising soon, hope some of your guys can make it. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 2:59 PM

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Claude Patrick 13 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2282

everything starts somewhere de la riva is a awesome and been a big fan of his for years.. but the beribolo game is very much more detailed than what the core of the foot position is.. i mean ever playing the helicopter sweep that some of the nova uniao/alliance guys made popular in the late 90's isnt like only half way there.. check out this fight from 1997 leo viera vs charuto at 7 mins in a sick helicopter/berimbolo while theres very little new under the sun.. the games always evolving You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 2:59 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Claude Patrick 13 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2283	great match all around but check the sweep out at 7 mins or so in look famiiar You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 3:13 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
deepu 3 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 15025	Fun fucking match!! Leo's cartwheel pass is a thing of beauty! Hell everything he does is insane. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 3:15 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
deepu 3 Edited: 11/02/12 3:21 PM Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 15026	Also would like to point out, that's not quite a berimbolo. This one is the old school flavour with the grip on the guys sleeve. Grip the belt to pulli him down, and when you come up, come up under the legs so that you end up in a leg drag position. I know it's more or less the same thing, but just saying. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 3:18 PM

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Mark Stables 7 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 870

Oh don't get me wrong I understand the different nuances to the position but when I trained with De la Riva 10 years ago he was doing similar stuff that involved the same kind of spinning. Another good example of this kind of thing is Cyborgs Tornado guard. If you check some of Rolleta's old matches from the 90's , you will see some very similar stuff. Everybody adds their own flavor but it's like you said, very little New under the Sun. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 3:40 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Claude Patrick 13 Edited: 11/02/12 3:39 PM Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2284	indeed indeed...deepu stop being such stickler... you get my point You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 3:43 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Mark Stables 7 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 872	Deepu let me know where and when and I will of course highly recommend it to my Toronto Students. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 3:49 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
deepu 3 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 15029	Mark, I will. Claude, I know I know, but the devil is in the details :) You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 4:09 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Shotta 14 Member Since: 9/12/02 Posts: 294	Bottom line gentlemen, this was a sub only event. If no one wins, both lose. My point here is, one knows that he lost the other is still in denial. If it was a "you can't hurt me" event, following true self defense, nobody would have showed up. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 4:37 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Claude Patrick 13 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2285	gracie boyz clearly won cause regardless of the outcome of the match whats at work here was a marketing master piece... 10 years from now it will be legendary You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 6:10 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Heel Hooker Member Since: 10/16/12 Posts: 48	Claude Patrick - gracie boyz clearly won cause regardless of the outcome of the match whats at work here was a marketing master piece... 10 years from now it will be legendary correct, just like the 1st UFC. Gotta give them credit. You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 8:29 PM

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Claude Patrick 13 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2286

the first ufc defined a lot about vs match ups and people approaches to combat this has nothing to do with that but someone they have tied it together and validated everything.. whether right or wrong thats a pretty gangster move on thier part especially when we had all seen it coming.. i really dont know why people assumend ryron wuold get smoked.. he has been many high level guys and when you go from trying to win down to simply surviving the jobs a lot easier.. :) Andre survived too just its framed as a failure.. gotta love martial arts You have ignored this user.

11/2/12 10:30 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Shotta 14 Member Since: 9/12/02 Posts: 295	Again, it's all perspective. We can all sit here & point out a thousand useless things that are bought everyday, just because they were marketed correctly. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to disrespect the Gracie family by any means. They are reason why we are here. You have ignored this user.

11/3/12 4:24 PM

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Mark Stables 7 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 876

At the end of the day I thought the event was a huge success. It really showed how specific the training has become for IBJJF tournaments. These guys condition themselves to be explosive and aggressive in a ten minute match. Anybody who trains knows, regardless of your physical conditioning, going full tilt for ten minutes is exhausting. Thats why I think Ryrons strategy was so brilliant. He let Andre burn himself out in the first ten minutes and then picked up the pace. Kron did the same kind of thing letting Otavio burn his grips out and then capitalizing at the end of the match. If you are a fan of Jiu Jitsu, I don't understand why you wouldn't find this match interesting to watch. I sure did and I think more contests like this are essential for the growth of the sport. You have ignored this user.

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