Strength & Conditioning >> Are S&C coaches REALLY needed for fighters?

vermonter - 

None So Blind - Quote that has stayed with me from my one (very) brief meeting with Isao Inokuma (former All Japan judo champ and Olympic gold in judo, trained Yasuhiro Yamashita who is arguably the greatest judoka of all time) after a seminar:

"There is no such thing as a weak champion."

I wasn't following the conversation (my Japanese sucks), but as it was translated to me, he meant that lifting and strength was necessary in his eyes to reach the top.

Thoughts?

I think everyone would agree that strength is important. General strength is critical for every athlete. Specific strength is as well, but the debates center around what qualifies as specific strength. Can you do it in the gym or not? My own answer isn't super popular, but there are people at both ends of the spectrum and at every point in between.

None So Blind - 

vermonter - 

None So Blind - Quote that has stayed with me from my one (very) brief meeting with Isao Inokuma (former All Japan judo champ and Olympic gold in judo, trained Yasuhiro Yamashita who is arguably the greatest judoka of all time) after a seminar:

"There is no such thing as a weak champion."

I wasn't following the conversation (my Japanese sucks), but as it was translated to me, he meant that lifting and strength was necessary in his eyes to reach the top.

Thoughts?

I think everyone would agree that strength is important. General strength is critical for every athlete. Specific strength is as well, but the debates center around what qualifies as specific strength. Can you do it in the gym or not? My own answer isn't super popular, but there are people at both ends of the spectrum and at every point in between.

What was really amazing about it was that Inokuma said that he was considered something of a rebel in Japanese judo circles in the 70's and 80's for his advocacy of weight training - that's not too far back, and yet some people swore at that time that skill was the only necessary factor...wouldn't be surprising to me to hear that that particular view still had a grip on some folks even now.

Side note - I read in a book about Yamashita what his weight training was like - ye gods, it was things like dumbbell presses and flys, upright rows, and a few other odd things, although he did squat. The thought of Yamashita doing a proper lifting regimen by today's standards - ouch ;-)

vermonter - 

Tilla - Pretty sure that's an old clip.

He said that will only be doing B/W exercises as weightlifting is bad on the joints.

It's OK saying "That 1%" but WORLD CHAMPIONS have become WORLD CHAMPIONS without using them. See what I mean?

I know this is a troll thread, but since CS is getting worked up, i'll chime in on this.

I sincerely doubt you know which world champions have had or have not had s&c coaches. I also sincerely doubt there is an existing world champion in MMA that has not done, and isn't currently a part of some kind of organized s&c. Furthermore, not even the best among us knows what some other coach's methods did to help or hinder an athlete, so any discussion of its merits to some other athlete is untenable. Sadly, for unprepaired coaches, it can be hard to tell what their methods are doing for the athletes that they themselves are training.

So i will say the following:

1. The athletes that i have personally worked with do better than if they hadn't worked with me, by my measurment, empirical evidence and their own reckoning.

2. Not every athlete needs a dedicated S&C coach to do well. However, many have a skill coach that functions in this regard, or they do it themselves. Again, Leigh (who is on this very thread) is an example of that. Leigh is essentially his own S&C coach and has been educating himself here and elsewhere for over a decade. And yet still, i think he'd say that he's learned a thing or two in working with me (I'll leave such judgements up to him), as I have certainly learned from working with him.

3. I you ever want to fight rather than troll, send me a message. I'd be happy to show you the merits of s&c.

Tilla - 

vermonter - 

Tilla - Pretty sure that's an old clip.

He said that will only be doing B/W exercises as weightlifting is bad on the joints.

It's OK saying "That 1%" but WORLD CHAMPIONS have become WORLD CHAMPIONS without using them. See what I mean?

I know this is a troll thread, but since CS is getting worked up, i'll chime in on this.

I sincerely doubt you know which world champions have had or have not had s&c coaches. I also sincerely doubt there is an existing world champion in MMA that has not done, and isn't currently a part of some kind of organized s&c. Furthermore, not even the best among us knows what some other coach's methods did to help or hinder an athlete, so any discussion of its merits to some other athlete is untenable. Sadly, for unprepaired coaches, it can be hard to tell what their methods are doing for the athletes that they themselves are training.

So i will say the following:

1. The athletes that i have personally worked with do better than if they hadn't worked with me, by my measurment, empirical evidence and their own reckoning.

2. Not every athlete needs a dedicated S&C coach to do well. However, many have a skill coach that functions in this regard, or they do it themselves. Again, Leigh (who is on this very thread) is an example of that. Leigh is essentially his own S&C coach and has been educating himself here and elsewhere for over a decade. And yet still, i think he'd say that he's learned a thing or two in working with me (I'll leave such judgements up to him), as I have certainly learned from working with him.

3. I you ever want to fight rather than troll, send me a message. I'd be happy to show you the merits of s&c.

Fedor? Other than grapple and Kickbox, he ran miles every day and did pull ups and crunches in school playgrounds.

He wasn't pulling prowlers, flipping tires, using an elevation mask... And he was undefeated for 10 years and is arguably the greatest fighter to ever live.

gusto - i see guys in the ufc that are strong as fuck, but they lack speed

gsp's timing and speed on his takedown are incredible. it is that bent knee speed (if that is even a thing). rogan talked about covering distance.

some other guys with that speed are tim kenneddy and aaron simpson (i think is the guy)

so many dudes get there take downs stuffed because it takes them so long to get in

if an S&C guy could help with that, i think he/she would be great