OtherGround Forum >> Treasonous Republicans Want to Secede....

pfsjkd -

IDXtreme - 

pfsjkd - 

IDXtreme - I think the treasonous act was Lincoln preventing the constitutional right to secede. We have been stripped of our rights ever since.

Seeing as the SCOTUS determined that secession was unconstitutional in Texas v. White, it's hard to back up Lincoln as being treasonous, and that's probably one of the dumber things ever written on this forum.

BTW, yea, we would have been MUCH better off if the US had been split. Jesus.

Just because an activist SCOTUS said it was doesn't make it right. Need I point out their recent ruling on obamacare?

 

You're getting dumber by the second. Whenever someone says 'activist court' it translates to 'one that I don't happen agree with'. Tough shit. The rule of law set up by the Constitution is that the SCOTUS has the last word on constitutionality. Don't like? Get enough support to ammend the Constitution. Oh, wait, that's hard to do, right? Instead, I guess I'll just bitch about how 'activist' the court is.

 

Rouge Mod - 

Trichoke7 - Secession is a human right, according to the Declaration of Independence.

According to the seceders, yes. So England just let the colonies go, did they?

pharochuck - 

Trichoke7 - Secession is a human right, according to the Declaration of Independence.

but that was addressing grave injustices. i can see where there are things that a lot of people don't like, but the flips side is a more people do like them. is the fact that some people might have to pay a slightly higher tax burden really an issue worthy of us killing each other in the streets and tearing apart the union?

pharochuck - 

Trichoke7 - Secession is a human right, according to the Declaration of Independence.

but that was addressing grave injustices. i can see where there are things that a lot of people don't like, but the flips side is a more people do like them. is the fact that some people might have to pay a slightly higher tax burden really an issue worthy of us killing each other in the streets and tearing apart the union?

Trichoke7 - 

pharochuck - 

Trichoke7 - Secession is a human right, according to the Declaration of Independence.

but that was addressing grave injustices. i can see where there are things that a lot of people don't like, but the flips side is a more people do like them. is the fact that some people might have to pay a slightly higher tax burden really an issue worthy of us killing each other in the streets and tearing apart the union?

If you are on the good team, then you will recognize the human right of secession and not kill people for practicing it, even if their reasons are petty. Simple as that, really.

It doesn't really matter much if anyone secedes, so long as you have free trade and freedom of movement between borders. In fact, the world theoretically could be better because more governments = more competition = governments behave better.

You can't define "good" and "bad" regarding the secession issue by whether or not one thinks secession should be allowed. That's circular or arbitrary.

And saying that secessionists favor it and a union doesn't is pointless as well. Of course secessionists and revolutionaries favor opposition to the union. Of course unionists oppose secession.

The question here is whether the US as a nation should, or rather DOES allow secession, and they do not by their own interpretation of their own laws. Case closed.

And I don't understand what you mean by "more governments = more competition = governments behave better." Goverments competing = war. Trade war, culture war, cold war, hot war, whatever. However it manifests, it's certainly not "behaving better".

Rouge Mod -

Trichoke7 - 

pharochuck - 

Trichoke7 - Secession is a human right, according to the Declaration of Independence.

but that was addressing grave injustices. i can see where there are things that a lot of people don't like, but the flips side is a more people do like them. is the fact that some people might have to pay a slightly higher tax burden really an issue worthy of us killing each other in the streets and tearing apart the union?

If you are on the good team, then you will recognize the human right of secession and not kill people for practicing it, even if their reasons are petty. Simple as that, really.

It doesn't really matter much if anyone secedes, so long as you have free trade and freedom of movement between borders. In fact, the world theoretically could be better because more governments = more competition = governments behave better.

You can't define "good" and "bad" regarding the secession issue by whether or not one thinks secession should be allowed. That's circular or arbitrary.

And saying that secessionists favor it and a union doesn't is pointless as well. Of course secessionists and revolutionaries favor opposition to the union. Of course unionists oppose secession.

The question here is whether the US as a nation should, or rather DOES allow secession, and they do not by their own interpretation of their own laws. Case closed.

I don't think so. Government laws are created through deliberation, not arbitrarily. And the issue was whether something can be labeled "good" or "bad". Saying that what the government allows is "good" is arbitrary and/or circular, but saying the government allows a particular thing is not necessarily so.

If you believe it is a natural right and the government doesn't, that doesn't mean much except that you disagree with the government.

Prior to the Civil War, some people believed that the concept of succession was a way for states to ensure that the Federal Government didn't over extend into issues reserved for states' rights.  It was AMERICAN to be able to succede in concept because it was a form of regulation to the over reaching arm of the Federal Government.

Since the Civil War, the concept that a state or a group of people would move for succession is deemed to be traitorous.  Prior to that, it was a very American concept that people believed would help regulate the size and dominion of the Government.  James Madison was strong in this belief.  Some argue that the 10th Amendment's wording allows for succession.  The point is that it was a debatable topic prior to the Civil War. 

I don't think it's a viable option at this point, just pointing out how different this concept has been viewed.

Liberals these days are an especially vile bunch. Delusional to the highest order. 

Republicans aren't much better, but my god, these so-called liberals... It literally makes me sick to my stomach to see some of your smug, psuedo-patriotic posts here. If either of the major party idiots would quit frothing at that mouth at eachother for 30 seconds, they'd see that there really is some FUCKED UP shit happening in this country.

Not everything is racist, I'm so sick of that shit. How about there's Americans that want to secede (or voice their opinion by doing so through this White House program) because we can now be arrested without charge or trial, by military, in America, and 'indefinitely?' Maybe some Americans want to secede because their every text, phone call, and e-mail is being stored by the NSA now (100% illegal, still happens)? Maybe there's some Americans that want to secede because they see the terrifying merger of corporate and government power in this country?

This fuckin "my team is better than your's" shit really isn't cute anymore.

ortman166 -  If a state does secede and they have any kind of decent jobs I'm going. This countries a sinking ship IMO.

According to my brother-in-law, our country is fine financially. There's no cause for alarm and no risk of crashing.

I would love to hear what both parties say to this statement.

UGCTT_TrevGore - 

Liberals these days are an especially vile bunch. Delusional to the highest order. 

 

Republicans aren't much better, but my god, these so-called liberals... It literally makes me sick to my stomach to see some of your smug, psuedo-patriotic posts here. If either of the major party idiots would quit frothing at that mouth at eachother for 30 seconds, they'd see that there really is some FUCKED UP shit happening in this country.

 

Not everything is racist, I'm so sick of that shit. How about there's Americans that want to secede (or voice their opinion by doing so through this White House program) because we can now be arrested without charge or trial, by military, in America, and 'indefinitely?' Maybe some Americans want to secede because their every text, phone call, and e-mail is being stored by the NSA now (100% illegal, still happens)? Maybe there's some Americans that want to secede because they see the terrifying merger of corporate and government power in this country?

 

This fuckin "my team is better than your's" shit really isn't cute anymore.

Rouge Mod -

I don't think so. Government laws are created through deliberation, not arbitrarily. And the issue was whether something can be labeled "good" or "bad". Saying that what the government allows is "good" is arbitrary and/or circular, but saying the government allows a particular thing is not necessarily so.

If you believe it is a natural right and the government doesn't, that doesn't mean much except that you disagree with the government.

Rouge Mod - 

Trichoke7 - 

pharochuck - 

Trichoke7 - Secession is a human right, according to the Declaration of Independence.

but that was addressing grave injustices. i can see where there are things that a lot of people don't like, but the flips side is a more people do like them. is the fact that some people might have to pay a slightly higher tax burden really an issue worthy of us killing each other in the streets and tearing apart the union?

If you are on the good team, then you will recognize the human right of secession and not kill people for practicing it, even if their reasons are petty. Simple as that, really.

It doesn't really matter much if anyone secedes, so long as you have free trade and freedom of movement between borders. In fact, the world theoretically could be better because more governments = more competition = governments behave better.

You can't define "good" and "bad" regarding the secession issue by whether or not one thinks secession should be allowed. That's circular or arbitrary.

And saying that secessionists favor it and a union doesn't is pointless as well. Of course secessionists and revolutionaries favor opposition to the union. Of course unionists oppose secession.

The question here is whether the US as a nation should, or rather DOES allow secession, and they do not by their own interpretation of their own laws. Case closed.

Rouge Mod - 

I don't think so. Government laws are created through deliberation, not arbitrarily. And the issue was whether something can be labeled "good" or "bad". Saying that what the government allows is "good" is arbitrary and/or circular, but saying the government allows a particular thing is not necessarily so.

If you believe it is a natural right and the government doesn't, that doesn't mean much except that you disagree with the government.

Trichoke7 - 

Rouge Mod - 

I don't think so. Government laws are created through deliberation, not arbitrarily. And the issue was whether something can be labeled "good" or "bad". Saying that what the government allows is "good" is arbitrary and/or circular, but saying the government allows a particular thing is not necessarily so.

If you believe it is a natural right and the government doesn't, that doesn't mean much except that you disagree with the government.

Who said that whatever the government allows is "good?" I don't think it would be good if the government allowed murder, theft, rape, ect.

Jacobmccrmck - Bunch of racist

Non issue. A fringe far right group is looking for publicity by flooding some interbet polls with this nonsense. Just like the Libs that said they would leave the country if Bush got a second term.

It was stupid then. It is stupid now. Maistream media giving them publicity is a way to try to paint them as THE GOP in an effort to get people to dismiss anything conservative.