OtherGround Forum >> Song of Ice+Fire Fan Theories plead your case here

homegrowncone - 

Zenoplata - 

I didn't like how he died.

He was built up forever and basically just died in order to make everyone else mad and get them going. It was basically like Ned dying.

Beloved partiarch of one of the major families dies in order to cause all of their relatives to begin war-mongering.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, I also think that's entirely the point.  The Martells are also a little different than the other major houses, just like the starks.

I feel like the Dorne storyline has been pretty stagnant since Oberyn died. There was a very brief moment of excitement with Areo killing Arys and Darkstar running off, but I haven't been overly interested.

None of the characters in Dorne have been overly interesting since Oberyn, not to me at least.

Evie - 
Speaking of Bronn, I wonder if, and in what capacity, he will show up again? Last I remember, he was set up quite nicely with Lollys (sp?), the simple but wealthy girl at Court in KL, who got raped following Tommen's Procession.

Bronn wanted to name the rape-baby Tywin but Cersei refused so he named it Tyrion instead, in jest of Cersei.

Cersei ordered Falyse (Lollys' mother) to find a way to dispose of Bronn, but her husband Balman Byrch took it upon himself to challenge Bronn openly to single combat which Bronn accepted. Bronn used some sort of dirty tactic, killed Balman and Lollys went running back to Cersei. Cersei then had Falyse killed by Qyburn to keep her silent about why Balman tried to fight Bronn, leaving Lollys as the next in line to inherit Stokeworth.

Bronn being Lollys' husband is now suddenly Lord Protector of Stokeworth. Stokeworth is one of the main suppliers of food to King's Landing, so Bronn has the potential to starve out KL if he really wished to.

One very interesting thing of note is that Shagga and many of the other clansmen have not returned to the mountains near the Vale yet. The books are unclear about the fate of many of them, but it is explicitly stated that Shagga and the Stone Crows are in the Kingswood. The Moonbrothers were last seen being sent into the Kingswood to torment Stannis. The Black Ears attempted to reenter Kings Landing after the battle but were chased off and could very well still be near.

So there are potentially hundreds or thousands of mountain clansmen in the Kingswood near King's Landing. We already know that they have shown loyalty to Tyrion in the past - I feel it's possible that Tyrion rallies the clansmen once more, calls on Bronn to rally Stokeworth (if they're still boys like that) and either claims his rightful inheritance at Castle Rock, or provides his own host to attack with.

How will this play into the rest of the story? Well, Danaerys has her own host and is currently riding Drogon. If she arrives in Westoros with her Khalasar, shavepates, Unsullied etc. she can lead a main army... now if it's true that Tyrion and Jon Snow are the other dragon riders they each have their own potential armies.

Jon Snow may or may not still be in command of the Night's Watch. If he is, it's pretty obvious, if he is not, he may very well be the next heir of Winterfell. Or it's always possible that Stannis is killed by Ramsay and that Melisandre makes sure Jon is put in charge of his army. Either way, we can assume Jon Snow will probably have his own host.

That would leave Tyrion - between the clansmen and Bronn he could easily gather a decent amount of troops. Furthermore, if he is still in league with Aegon, they can always join together.

Can't let this thread die!

Bronn is a secret Targ!

Tyrion and Jamie duel at the end! 

Zenoplata -

Evie - 
Speaking of Bronn, I wonder if, and in what capacity, he will show up again? Last I remember, he was set up quite nicely with Lollys (sp?), the simple but wealthy girl at Court in KL, who got raped following Tommen's Procession.

Bronn wanted to name the rape-baby Tywin but Cersei refused so he named it Tyrion instead, in jest of Cersei.

Cersei ordered Falyse (Lollys' mother) to find a way to dispose of Bronn, but her husband Balman Byrch took it upon himself to challenge Bronn openly to single combat which Bronn accepted. Bronn used some sort of dirty tactic, killed Balman and Lollys went running back to Cersei. Cersei then had Falyse killed by Qyburn to keep her silent about why Balman tried to fight Bronn, leaving Lollys as the next in line to inherit Stokeworth.

Bronn being Lollys' husband is now suddenly Lord Protector of Stokeworth. Stokeworth is one of the main suppliers of food to King's Landing, so Bronn has the potential to starve out KL if he really wished to.

Kirkifan1 - im on the second book and one thing i don't like is how martin writes the sex scenes. i don't want that much detail lol

So... fan theory, Kirikfan1 is a homosexual?

Kirkifan1 - im on the second book and one thing i don't like is how martin writes the sex scenes. i don't want that much detail lol

So... fan theory, Kirikfan1 is a homosexual?

Zenoplata - 

homegrowncone - 

Zenoplata - 

I didn't like how he died.

He was built up forever and basically just died in order to make everyone else mad and get them going. It was basically like Ned dying.

Beloved partiarch of one of the major families dies in order to cause all of their relatives to begin war-mongering.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, I also think that's entirely the point.  The Martells are also a little different than the other major houses, just like the starks.

I feel like the Dorne storyline has been pretty stagnant since Oberyn died. There was a very brief moment of excitement with Areo killing Arys and Darkstar running off, but I haven't been overly interested.

None of the characters in Dorne have been overly interesting since Oberyn, not to me at least.

 

It's true that it's stagnant at this point, but Sarella and Darkstar are going to become major players, imo.  I don't think we'll see a ton of Areo, simply because he's just the captain of the guard of a guy that's basically bedridden. 

^At this point in the story I don't want them making any more characters important. There's enough POV characters and competing factions as it is. He has two books to wrap it up. 

CyborgRoyce - 

^At this point in the story I don't want them making any more characters important. There's enough POV characters and competing factions as it is. He has two books to wrap it up. 

Yeah, when they introduced Aegon I was like, Oh great... more fucking people.

Ok, here's a theory we can discuss and it's implications.

Is Dawn - the sword that belongs to house Dayne also the sword formerly known as Lightbringer, which was said to have ended the Long Night.

Zenoplata - 

Ok, here's a theory we can discuss and it's implications.

Is Dawn - the sword that belongs to house Dayne also the sword formerly known as Lightbringer, which was said to have ended the Long Night.

I don't buy that Dawn is Lightbringer.  There is literally nothing that suggests it, other than the theoretical link between Jon and House Dayne, and the fact that the Dawn and Lightbringer are unique swords.  Other than that, there isn't anything to suggest it 

irishman84 - 

Zenoplata - 

Ok, here's a theory we can discuss and it's implications.

Is Dawn - the sword that belongs to house Dayne also the sword formerly known as Lightbringer, which was said to have ended the Long Night.

Is that Samwell's house's sword? Tarly's?

Well, Dawn is the house sword of Dayne and was used by Arthur Dayne also called the Morning Sword.

The Tarly house sword, wielded by Randyll Tarly is called Heartsbane.

Heartsbane is a two-handed greatsword.

Oh, I almost forgot - Dawn is not made of Valyrian steel. Heartsbane is.

From the ASOIAF wiki -

"

Dawn is the ancestral greatsword of House Dayne. It is said to be made from metal forged from the heart of a fallen star.^[1] Its blade is as pale as milkglass.^[2] The sword is not necessarily passed to the lord of the house, but to the knight considered most worthy to wield it, who is then called the Sword of the Morning.^[3] The name of the Daynes' castle, Starfall, and their arms, featuring a white sword and falling star, both reference Dawn. The blade is said to be just as sharp as Valyrian steel.

Last known user of the sword is Arthur Dayne, who died in Tower of Joy. After the fight, Eddard Stark rode to Starfall to deliver Arthur's sword Dawn to Arthur's sister Ashara Dayne."

Mencken - 

I don't buy that Dawn is Lightbringer.  There is literally nothing that suggests it, other than the theoretical link between Jon and House Dayne, and the fact that the Dawn and Lightbringer are unique swords.  Other than that, there isn't anything to suggest it 

Well the fact that Lightbringer and Dawn are similar in meaning.

Lightbringer brought an end to the Long Night. Dawn of course literally is the end of night.

I like the implications of this however, we know that Ashara was the last one with the sword and that she killed herself so its whereabouts are currently unknown but we can assume the sword is still with house Dayne.

Perhaps the name Darkstar is alluding to some sort of connection to the Others/The Great Other? It's unlikely I think since GRRM isn't always so obvious.

Zenoplata - 

Mencken - 

I don't buy that Dawn is Lightbringer.  There is literally nothing that suggests it, other than the theoretical link between Jon and House Dayne, and the fact that the Dawn and Lightbringer are unique swords.  Other than that, there isn't anything to suggest it 

Well the fact that Lightbringer and Dawn are similar in meaning.

Lightbringer brought an end to the Long Night. Dawn of course literally is the end of night.

I like the implications of this however, we know that Ashara was the last one with the sword and that she killed herself so its whereabouts are currently unknown but we can assume the sword is still with house Dayne.

Perhaps the name Darkstar is alluding to some sort of connection to the Others/The Great Other? It's unlikely I think since GRRM isn't always so obvious.

Mencken - 

I don't buy that Dawn is Lightbringer.  There is literally nothing that suggests it, other than the theoretical link between Jon and House Dayne, and the fact that the Dawn and Lightbringer are unique swords.  Other than that, there isn't anything to suggest it 

Zenoplata -

Mencken - 

I don't buy that Dawn is Lightbringer.  There is literally nothing that suggests it, other than the theoretical link between Jon and House Dayne, and the fact that the Dawn and Lightbringer are unique swords.  Other than that, there isn't anything to suggest it 

Well the fact that Lightbringer and Dawn are similar in meaning.

Lightbringer brought an end to the Long Night. Dawn of course literally is the end of night.

I like the implications of this however, we know that Ashara was the last one with the sword and that she killed herself so its whereabouts are currently unknown but we can assume the sword is still with house Dayne.

Perhaps the name Darkstar is alluding to some sort of connection to the Others/The Great Other? It's unlikely I think since GRRM isn't always so obvious.

But there are rich legends about the two swords being made, and they are not remotely the same, nor is there any overlap between the two.  Just because each legend doesn't preclude the other, it doesn't mean they refer to teh same sword.

Further, look at the purpose for the sword.  It is to fight against the Others.  The Wall is to defend against them.  The northmen hold the north and keep watch.  The Night's Watch is expressly in existence to fight the Others.  So with all of that, the sword that exists in order to kill them becomes the ancestral sword of the southernmost House?