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Is BJ Penn really an all time great?

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12/9/12 9:48 AM

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InspiritMick 6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/6/10
Posts: 5159

Loss	Trevor Berbick	Decision (unanimous)	10 (10)	December 11, 1981	39 years, 328 days	Nassau, Bahamas	"Drama in the Bahamas"^[90]
Loss	Larry Holmes	TKO (Corner Stoppage)	10 (15)	October 2, 1980	38 years, 259 days	Las Vegas, NV	Lost The Ring World Heavyweight title. For WBC World Heavyweight title.
Win	Leon Spinks	Decision (unanimous)	15 (15)	September 15, 1978	36 years, 241 days	New Orleans, LA	Won The Ring & WBA World Heavyweight titles; Vacated WBA title on 1979-09-06.
Loss	Leon Spinks	Decision (split)	15 (15)	February 15, 1978	36 years, 29 days	Las Vegas, NV	Lost The Ring, WBC & WBA World Heavyweight titles.
Win	Earnie Shavers	Decision (unanimous)	15 (15)	September 29, 1977	35 years, 255 days	New York City	Retained The Ring, WBC & WBA World Heavyweight titles.

12/9/12 10:02 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Olive Garden Table For One 68 Member Since: 1/12/05 Posts: 39520	He's had plenty of gimmes and screwed them up. The Lw division was created to get a belt on penn and he lost to Jens, drew with UNO and killed the division for years. He came back to beat sherk and a bunch of tuf'ers. Great fighter to watch. But not atg You have ignored this user.

12/9/12 10:08 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Kingofny23 Member Since: 12/16/09 Posts: 412	How does OP's level of retardation allow him to use a computer? You have ignored this user.

12/9/12 10:14 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
guardbr8kr Member Since: 4/28/02 Posts: 16082	all time great LW , for sure. You have ignored this user.

12/9/12 10:25 AM

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BubblesNS

Member Since: 4/12/11
Posts: 44

Kevin Arnold - I joined here in 2012, I've been following MMA since the late 90's so save that crap.

I would have to say BJ is an all time great. I should have worded the question differently and asked if BJ's career has been a disappointment overall based on how he started and how much better he could have been.

I am a huge BJ fan and am just disappointed with how his last two fights have gone and how it's really looking like he's finished.

This

12/9/12 10:34 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
sniper1026 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 2611	BJ needs to train at the Jackson camp. He needs to leave the comfort of his old camp that is filled with his relatives & a bunch of yes...men. You have ignored this user.

12/9/12 8:12 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Allen Hood 4 Member Since: 12/26/11 Posts: 1011	Look at his record.... You have ignored this user.

12/9/12 8:13 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
RKing85 52 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 16056	If BJ fought his entire career at 155, he would be the greatest fighter of all time. But since he went up in weight so often and took fights he had no business taking, he will just go down in history as a very, VERY good fighter. You have ignored this user.

12/9/12 8:22 PM

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Olive Garden Table For One 68 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/12/05
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RKing85 - If BJ fought his entire career at 155, he would be the greatest fighter of all time.

But since he went up in weight so often and took fights he had no business taking, he will just go down in history as a very, VERY good fighter.

How many greats did he fight at 155? Gomi, Sherk, Uno, Edgar. So, he's 2-3-1 in his biggest LW fights.

He was the greatest at beating up Tuf'ers at 155. Edgar has already surpassed BJ's LW greatness. Frankie beat Bendo and everybody knows it.

12/9/12 9:13 PM

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orcus

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 74782

"Yes, because at LW he's been a beast. And of those loses how many fights were at WW, and against guys like GSP x 2, Machida, Diaz, Rory."

Is it possible that had he stayed at LW for an extended stretch he would have been spotty there too? Maybe Nate could have done the same thing to him that Nick did? Benson likely would have beaten him in the same way as Edgar did...etc.

12/9/12 10:22 PM

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Samoa 116 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
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orcus -
"Yes, because at LW he's been a beast. And of those loses how many fights were at WW, and against guys like GSP x 2, Machida, Diaz, Rory."

Is it possible that had he stayed at LW for an extended stretch he would have been spotty there too? Maybe Nate could have done the same thing to him that Nick did? Benson likely would have beaten him in the same way as Edgar did...etc.

Anything is possible. Phone Post

12/9/12 10:30 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
G-Hands 22 Member Since: 4/10/03 Posts: 21565	BJ & Randy Couture are in the same boat. Not a good record, but deffo hall of fame legendary fighters. Two division champs = doesn't matter what their records are. Then you add in the people they've beat... shiiiiiit. legends. You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 12:37 AM

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Fedoral Crime 27 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 5/21/12
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Olive Garden Table For One -
RKing85 - If BJ fought his entire career at 155, he would be the greatest fighter of all time.

But since he went up in weight so often and took fights he had no business taking, he will just go down in history as a very, VERY good fighter.

How many greats did he fight at 155? Gomi, Sherk, Uno, Edgar. So, he's 2-3-1 in his biggest LW fights.

He was the greatest at beating up Tuf'ers at 155. Edgar has already surpassed BJ's LW greatness. Frankie beat Bendo and everybody knows it.

I thought he knocked Uno the fuck out? Phone Post

12/10/12 12:39 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Megatherium 41 Member Since: 11/18/11 Posts: 4350	Pulver was his only loss in his lightweight prime. Most thought he won the Uno draw. And Uno was good! You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 12:59 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Fedoral Crime 27 Member Since: 5/21/12 Posts: 590	Megatherium - Pulver was his only loss in his lightweight prime. Most thought he won the Uno draw. And Uno was good! If he didn't beat Uno, who is the young Asian gentleman that got annihilated against the cage in one of BJ's most famous KOs? You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 2:50 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Megatherium 41 Member Since: 11/18/11 Posts: 4358	Fedoral Crime - Megatherium - Pulver was his only loss in his lightweight prime. Most thought he won the Uno draw. And Uno was good! If he didn't beat Uno, who is the young Asian gentleman that got annihilated against the cage in one of BJ's most famous KOs? Uno You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 3:04 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Dmoney35 Member Since: 7/14/11 Posts: 2894	best lw ever IMO You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 4:44 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Farewell Brock Member Since: 8/24/11 Posts: 2451	Well hes the greatest 155er ever so I'm going to say he'd an all time great. You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 5:21 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
ssj Member Since: 12/24/11 Posts: 1230	LWGOAT UFC LW CHAMPION UFC WW CHAMPION DUAL DIVISION UFC CHAMPION JUST SCRAP I THINK SO. You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 5:22 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
ssj Member Since: 12/24/11 Posts: 1231	Also Hall of Famer (like his fellow dual Champion RANDY COUTURE) and all round MMA Legend You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 5:29 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
ssj Member Since: 12/24/11 Posts: 1232	ssj - LWGOAT UFC LW CHAMPION UFC WW CHAMPION DUAL DIVISION UFC CHAMPION JUST SCRAP I THINK SO. Big fan of BJ and motivated bj You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 8:11 AM

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Olive Garden Table For One 68 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/12/05
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Fedoral Crime -
Olive Garden Table For One -
RKing85 - If BJ fought his entire career at 155, he would be the greatest fighter of all time.

But since he went up in weight so often and took fights he had no business taking, he will just go down in history as a very, VERY good fighter.

How many greats did he fight at 155? Gomi, Sherk, Uno, Edgar. So, he's 2-3-1 in his biggest LW fights.

He was the greatest at beating up Tuf'ers at 155. Edgar has already surpassed BJ's LW greatness. Frankie beat Bendo and everybody knows it.
I thought he knocked Uno the fuck out?

Then drew with Uno when the UFC was desperately trying to put the title on him. He fucked that, and the division for years.

If people want to give BJ the Uno decision, they should take back the gift he got against Serra.

12/10/12 8:46 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
LiftStrong 6 Member Since: 10/15/08 Posts: 3474	Kind of torn on this. Cant challenge the fact he is fearless and always brings it. Just looking at his record though, he beat everyone he should beat and lost to everyone he should lose to (Hughes being the exception). .500 in title fights over his career. UFC HOFer, yeah definitely. Not sure how he will be remembered 10 years from now though. You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 8:56 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
BearsDownAzzUp 68 Member Since: 6/10/08 Posts: 14464	BJ fought EVERYONE put in front of him in like 5 different weight classes. He has fought the who's who of MMA the last decade. He IS an all time great and should be treated as such. To question it is simply retarded. You have ignored this user.

12/10/12 9:07 AM

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Whambo 10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12007

He definately has taken fights he shouldn't have taken, and his record reflects that. The Rory fight was my most solid pick for the last card, it was so obvious to me Rory was going to beat him.

FFS he is a natural LW and decided to fight a LHW with a perfect record and has now been a top LHW for several years.

Hard to critisize him for going back to WW when the first fight with GSP was so close, but he really should have dropped right back down after what Hughes did to him in their 2nd fight. Taking that 2nd GSP fight was crazy and again should have told him to get out of WW. And he did... for a little bit.. I get why he took the Hughes vs Penn III fight, but to go against 3 of the top WW's for his next fights was crazy. He shoulda been fighting Nate, not Nick.

The sports changed, while Penn is still one of the most skilled athletes to have competed in MMA, he doesn't have the physical gifts that the top guys have. There is a big difference between Penn and Henderson in terms of explosiveness, strength, cardio, and speed.

He's still a top guy, could probably be at the very cusp at the top 10 WW's, and probably #3 for LW's, but he will never win another UFC title.

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