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12/29/12 6:50 PM

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likwid 10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32

An alternate look at handgun stopping power: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

I use a .45 at home, XD(m) with 13 1. I prefer my shotgun for home defense though. Guaranteed to hit anything in my home, with less penetration.

9mm with hollow points will stop just about anyone who is sober, but I worry about some idiot on bath salts breaking into my house, so I prefer the sledgehammer to the chest that is .45 ACP.

I also wouldn't be "aiming for a headshot." 3 shots center mass IMO, 1 in each lung and one in the heart. Then if they make any noise at all after that, I'll stand over them and put one between their eyes.

I also recommend that you practice shooting after like 50 push-ups or 100 jumping jacks. If you practice shooting immediately after that, it simulates having a bunch of adrenaline.

I've been fortunate not to ever get into a situation where I've needed to do this. Phone Post

12/29/12 8:01 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Rhymenoceros 119 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 14077	"I've been fortunate not to ever get into a situation where I've needed to do this." And yet you have loads of tactical shooting advice to give. Hmmm. Maybe you guys who aren't accomplished shooters and who have no tactical experience should pump the brakes a tad on giving advice. Just a suggestion. You have ignored this user.

12/29/12 8:26 PM

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likwid 10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 33

Rhymenoceros - "I've been fortunate not to ever get into a situation where I've needed to do this."

And yet you have loads of tactical shooting advice to give. Hmmm.

Maybe you guys who aren't accomplished shooters and who have no tactical experience should pump the brakes a tad on giving advice. Just a suggestion.

Ill respectfully disagree and say that preparation makes all the difference. I've also gathered a lot of this tactical information from my little brother who is a 4 time veteran. My uncle is a police officer. It could be that I'm getting bad advice, but I don't believe that to be true.

I have actually walked every inch of my house in the dark enough times I won't be surprised.

I'm not saying anyone on the Internet should take my advice as gospel, but it isn't like I'm making this shit up to to look cool.

I believe all of us are smarter than some of us, and I don't think your point has any merit.

But that's just like, my opinion, man. Phone Post

12/29/12 8:27 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
likwid 10 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 34	And im a very experienced shooter, I just haven't had to kill anyone. Sorry if you think that makes me unqualified to give advice. You have ignored this user.

12/29/12 8:32 PM

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UGCTT_Fillthy 181 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/8/09
Posts: 1524

I don't think that's directed at me, but FWIW, I never said I had no tactical experience. I was never SOF or SWAT, but I worked with many and had many opportunities to experience getting shot at. I had some official training, and a lot of campfire chats with experienced operators.

Please don't read this in a douchebag tone, but maybe your point would be better received if you laid out your tactical experience first. And good advice is good advice, anything else is just an appeal to authority.

12/29/12 9:13 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
upgrayedd25 14 Member Since: 2/6/11 Posts: 390	UGCTT_45forever - upgrayedd25 - This is mine. Best of both worlds, double stack 1911! I nearly blew my load. Why thank you kind sir!!!!!! This is a nice night stand gun. Comes from para with night sights, match grade barrel, dura coating, five 13 Rnd mags. You have ignored this user.

12/29/12 9:26 PM

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Rhymenoceros 119 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14078

All I'm saying is that pretty much all men think they are automatically good at shooting, driving, sex, fighting, and a lot of other stuff. I went from thinking I was great at shooting because I had done it all my life to finding out I was god awful to getting better to the point of being competitive on a national level. I have no tactical experience, but then I would never be so bold as to offer tactical advice. Phone Post

12/29/12 9:42 PM

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Saiga12 38 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 7/17/09
Posts: 1730

upgrayedd25 -
UGCTT_45forever -
upgrayedd25 - This is mine. Best of both worlds, double stack 1911!
I nearly blew my load.
Why thank you kind sir!!!!!! This is a nice night stand gun. Comes from para with night sights, match grade barrel, dura coating, five 13 Rnd mags.

I picked up a Para Black Ops 14-45 and it came in with some issues with the letter engraving. Travis Tomasie from Para's shooting team doubles as the world's most bad ass customer service rep, and had me send it back to be rebuilt from the ground up. He also added all EGW internals, hammer, a Match bushing and allowed me to change the trijicon night sights to adjustable target rear and fiber optic front sight. He also added a little something extra and did a custom laser engraving for me for my Halloween birthday since this was a gift to myself for the occasion.

Not much thicker than Sig C3 1911.

Last time I talked to Travis they were getting ready to test fire it and I should be getting it back soon.

12/29/12 10:28 PM

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upgrayedd25 14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 2/6/11
Posts: 391

Saiga12 -
upgrayedd25 -
UGCTT_45forever -
upgrayedd25 - This is mine. Best of both worlds, double stack 1911!
I nearly blew my load.
Why thank you kind sir!!!!!! This is a nice night stand gun. Comes from para with night sights, match grade barrel, dura coating, five 13 Rnd mags.

I picked up a Para Black Ops 14-45 and it came in with some issues with the letter engraving. Travis Tomasie from Para's shooting team doubles as the world's most bad ass customer service rep, and had me send it back to be rebuilt from the ground up. He also added all EGW internals, hammer, a Match bushing and allowed me to change the trijicon night sights to adjustable target rear and fiber optic front sight. He also added a little something extra and did a custom laser engraving for me for my Halloween birthday since this was a gift to myself for the occasion.

Not much thicker than Sig C3 1911.

Last time I talked to Travis they were getting ready to test fire it and I should be getting it back soon.

I hadn't had a chance to deal with their customer service, but heard its amazing. Plus they are in north Carolina and im in south Carolina so turn around is quick.

Your black ops is sweet!!!! The jack looks nasty as well! Congrats and happy birthday! Phone Post

12/29/12 10:29 PM

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Gforce 46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12550

I think that Pat Rogers got it right here. His words are something to the effect of "there is no gun that I shoot better than the 1911. But when you consider maintenance, capacity, etc, most of us are better served with more modern polymer framed pistols."

With regard to elite units, it is widely rumored that the Army's premier special missions unit has moved at least part way from the 1911 to the Glock.

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2011/09/12/delta-force-and-the-glock/

Larry Vickers is an ex-Delta guy and famous 1911 pistolsmith who also does a lot more with the Glock these days.

Personally, I own both Glocks and a 1911. My duty (and off-duty) guns have always been Glocks. To be honest, there isn't a tremendous amount of difference between calibers with modern performance ammo.

12/29/12 11:04 PM

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Arodjohns 38 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 4/5/08
Posts: 1830

TexDeuce -
Arodjohns -
TexDeuce - The 1911 is my favorite handgun but it is antiquated and has been phased out of almost all military and law enforcement. It isn't as reliable on average than the more popular polymers (it's a fact sorry folks) and the capacity is just not acceptable for duty or home defense use.

Do you think a center of mass shot is a guaranteed fight stopper? Nope, sorry. Even multiple hits might not stop someone even if they are eventual fatal shots.
And who is to say you even hit the person with all of your shots? What if multiple people break into your house? A higher capacity does help, just in case. I also don't like the manual flip safety, just my preference. I prefer a grip safety or DA/SA.

That being said, the 1911 is an accurate shooter so if you are dead set on using it should get the job done. I just think there are better options out there.

In response to the first paragraph:

Many military and law enforcement organizations in the United States and other countries continue to use (often modified) M1911A1 pistols including Marine Corps Special Operations Command, Los Angeles Police Department S.W.A.T. and L.A.P.D. S.I.S., the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, F.B.I. regional S.W.A.T. teams, and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment—Delta (Delta Force). The Tacoma, Washington Police Department selected the Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry II HD as optional, department supplied weapons available to its officers.^[18]

Disengaging the manual thumb and grip safeties can be trained into muscle memory just like anything else.

To add a personal anecdote, I carry a Kimber Warrior II every day. I have nearly 5,000 rounds through it and, I've shot everything through it from Winchester white box to Corbon Power Balls without a problem after changing the factory magazines for Wilson Combat magazines.
You named a few agencies, and even within those named not everyone carries the 1911. The vast majority of law enforcement and military do not use the 1911.

I wasn't aware that you had been given the opportunity to poll every person in each of those agencies to see what their duty gun was.

12/29/12 11:07 PM

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Sagiv Lapkin 1443 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 3/23/07
Posts: 34113
NerdQuestionOfTheDay.com, Owner

Arodjohns -
TexDeuce -
Arodjohns -
TexDeuce - The 1911 is my favorite handgun but it is antiquated and has been phased out of almost all military and law enforcement. It isn't as reliable on average than the more popular polymers (it's a fact sorry folks) and the capacity is just not acceptable for duty or home defense use.

Do you think a center of mass shot is a guaranteed fight stopper? Nope, sorry. Even multiple hits might not stop someone even if they are eventual fatal shots.
And who is to say you even hit the person with all of your shots? What if multiple people break into your house? A higher capacity does help, just in case. I also don't like the manual flip safety, just my preference. I prefer a grip safety or DA/SA.

That being said, the 1911 is an accurate shooter so if you are dead set on using it should get the job done. I just think there are better options out there.

In response to the first paragraph:

Many military and law enforcement organizations in the United States and other countries continue to use (often modified) M1911A1 pistols including Marine Corps Special Operations Command, Los Angeles Police Department S.W.A.T. and L.A.P.D. S.I.S., the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, F.B.I. regional S.W.A.T. teams, and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment—Delta (Delta Force). The Tacoma, Washington Police Department selected the Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry II HD as optional, department supplied weapons available to its officers.^[18]

Disengaging the manual thumb and grip safeties can be trained into muscle memory just like anything else.

To add a personal anecdote, I carry a Kimber Warrior II every day. I have nearly 5,000 rounds through it and, I've shot everything through it from Winchester white box to Corbon Power Balls without a problem after changing the factory magazines for Wilson Combat magazines.
You named a few agencies, and even within those named not everyone carries the 1911. The vast majority of law enforcement and military do not use the 1911.

I wasn't aware that you had been given the opportunity to poll every person in each of those agencies to see what their duty gun was.

Tex is correct. You're cherry-picking the very few institutions that still use it. It was mostly phased out for good reason by the vast majority of LE and military units. That's just a fact.

12/29/12 11:08 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Saiga12 38 Member Since: 7/17/09 Posts: 1735	For upgrayedd25: https://vzgrips.com/gun-grips/para-ordinance/p-14-operators-ii https://vzgrips.com/gun-grips/para-ordinance/p-14-tactical-diamonds You have ignored this user.

12/29/12 11:13 PM

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IP 10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 6/22/09
Posts: 3788

I used Glock 22's for years at work.

Pros:
-KISS.
-Super easy to break down, work on and clean.
-Minimal parts/breakage to deal with.
-Good overall capacity, function and accuracy.
-Efficient machine and to-the-point in application. Excellent combat gun (pick it up and shoot).

Cons:
-We had a lot of problems (feeding/cycling) with light attachments, even with all the "fixes." No light = no problems.
-Somewhat unique shooting characteristics related to the gun itself.
-Not my choice for home defense weapon (prefer a positive external safety).
-Not everyone likes the ergonomics.

12/30/12 8:08 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
upgrayedd25 14 Member Since: 2/6/11 Posts: 394	jakeklipp - anyone fire an xds? currently carry a 5 shot .38 revolver, so the capacity isnt gonna bug me and its certainly small enough. worried about recoil on a .45 that small... I have. Very nice gun. If your normal size guy you will probably like it. I've got pretty big hands so I like the glock 36 better. Plus you can get a mag ext for a few more rounds. You have ignored this user.

12/30/12 12:37 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
White347LX 11 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 56129	Here is a detailed diagram showing why caliber is more important than capacity: You have ignored this user.

12/30/12 12:46 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Sagiv Lapkin 1443 Member Since: 3/23/07 Posts: 34117 NerdQuestionOfTheDay.com, Owner	White347LX - Here is a detailed diagram showing why caliber is more important than capacity: You have ignored this user.

12/30/12 12:52 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
White347LX 11 Edited: 12/30/12 12:52 PM Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 56134	They don't form ballistic gel large enough to show 10mm results. Obviously. You have ignored this user.

12/30/12 12:54 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
upgrayedd25 14 Member Since: 2/6/11 Posts: 395	Saiga12 - For upgrayedd25: https://vzgrips.com/gun-grips/para-ordinance/p-14-operators-ii https://vzgrips.com/gun-grips/para-ordinance/p-14-tactical-diamonds Nice!! I had a set of those on a kimber. I liked them. Im planning on getting some as soon as my gun money account is back up. Just spent some "tax"ing out my old shotgun. You have ignored this user.

12/30/12 12:55 PM

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upgrayedd25 14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 2/6/11
Posts: 396

upgrayedd25 -
Saiga12 -
For upgrayedd25:

https://vzgrips.com/gun-grips/para-ordinance/p-14-operators-ii

https://vzgrips.com/gun-grips/para-ordinance/p-14-tactical-diamonds
Nice!! I had a set of those on a kimber. I liked them. Im planning on getting some as soon as my gun money account is back up. Just spent some "tax"ing out my old shotgun.

"Tac "ing.......stupid DROID! Phone Post

12/30/12 2:18 PM

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UGCTT_45forever 235 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 12/5/11
Posts: 3608

upgrayedd25 -
Saiga12 -
upgrayedd25 -
UGCTT_45forever -
upgrayedd25 - This is mine. Best of both worlds, double stack 1911!
I nearly blew my load.
Why thank you kind sir!!!!!! This is a nice night stand gun. Comes from para with night sights, match grade barrel, dura coating, five 13 Rnd mags.

I picked up a Para Black Ops 14-45 and it came in with some issues with the letter engraving. Travis Tomasie from Para's shooting team doubles as the world's most bad ass customer service rep, and had me send it back to be rebuilt from the ground up. He also added all EGW internals, hammer, a Match bushing and allowed me to change the trijicon night sights to adjustable target rear and fiber optic front sight. He also added a little something extra and did a custom laser engraving for me for my Halloween birthday since this was a gift to myself for the occasion.

Not much thicker than Sig C3 1911.

Last time I talked to Travis they were getting ready to test fire it and I should be getting it back soon.
I hadn't had a chance to deal with their customer service, but heard its amazing. Plus they are in north Carolina and im in south Carolina so turn around is quick.

Your black ops is sweet!!!! The jack looks nasty as well! Congrats and happy birthday!

So much nasty nasty beautiful gun porn. Phone Post

12/30/12 10:24 PM

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spider guard 8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2562

Sagiv Lapkin -
Arodjohns -
TexDeuce -
Arodjohns -
TexDeuce - The 1911 is my favorite handgun but it is antiquated and has been phased out of almost all military and law enforcement. It isn't as reliable on average than the more popular polymers (it's a fact sorry folks) and the capacity is just not acceptable for duty or home defense use.

Do you think a center of mass shot is a guaranteed fight stopper? Nope, sorry. Even multiple hits might not stop someone even if they are eventual fatal shots.
And who is to say you even hit the person with all of your shots? What if multiple people break into your house? A higher capacity does help, just in case. I also don't like the manual flip safety, just my preference. I prefer a grip safety or DA/SA.

That being said, the 1911 is an accurate shooter so if you are dead set on using it should get the job done. I just think there are better options out there.

In response to the first paragraph:

Many military and law enforcement organizations in the United States and other countries continue to use (often modified) M1911A1 pistols including Marine Corps Special Operations Command, Los Angeles Police Department S.W.A.T. and L.A.P.D. S.I.S., the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, F.B.I. regional S.W.A.T. teams, and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment—Delta (Delta Force). The Tacoma, Washington Police Department selected the Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry II HD as optional, department supplied weapons available to its officers.^[18]

Disengaging the manual thumb and grip safeties can be trained into muscle memory just like anything else.

To add a personal anecdote, I carry a Kimber Warrior II every day. I have nearly 5,000 rounds through it and, I've shot everything through it from Winchester white box to Corbon Power Balls without a problem after changing the factory magazines for Wilson Combat magazines.
You named a few agencies, and even within those named not everyone carries the 1911. The vast majority of law enforcement and military do not use the 1911.

I wasn't aware that you had been given the opportunity to poll every person in each of those agencies to see what their duty gun was.

Tex is correct. You're cherry-picking the very few institutions that still use it. It was mostly phased out for good reason by the vast majority of LE and military units. That's just a fact.

To be fair though, a lot of departments(military) don't use 1911's cause its a training issue. A lot of people entering the military and LE have no formal training and its much easier to just teach a polymer and / or a DA semi(notice that all the pistols that are available da/sa are usually just da for LEO). On top of that cost. Much cheaper to purchase polymers and easier to maintain. Lastly, for some reason, newer shooters are intimidated by cocked and locked. They see hammer up and they freak out thinking its unsafe. I'm not arguing 1 is better than the other, just that there are other considerations as to why we have seen the move away from 1911 for majority of LE and military.

12/31/12 2:18 PM

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phydeau 95 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 11891

"To be fair though, a lot of departments(military) don't use 1911's cause its a training issue."

This is true.

I don't ever feel underarmed with my 1911, neither do I feel unsafe CCW'ing with it cocked & locked. But I'm also willing to do the extra work, practicing with it, cleaning it regularly, only using quality ammo & magazines (Wilson Combat FTW). I don't usually recommend 1911s for most first time gun owners. If you're gonna CCW with a 1911 you really need to be a "1911 guy."

Now my father-in-law carries a 1911 CCW, but he carries it Condition 3 (hammer down on an empty chamber) because "That's how I carried it in 'Nam." Good enough for when everyone in the entire country you are in wants to kill you, good enough for stomping around Main Street, USA.

12/31/12 2:42 PM

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TheAssMurderer 226 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Edited: 12/31/12 2:44 PM
Member Since: 11/17/05
Posts: 10381

Hey guys,

I'm thinking about putting a Rock Island compact 1911 in layaway on Wednesday. They're closed today or I would have already done it. I really wanted a stripped down Springfield 1911 (around 550), but the guy I buy from is out. It's less than 500 bucks but can't remember the exact price.

Anyone have any experience with a Rock Island Compact 1911? Thoughts?

Thanks in advance! Huge Glock guy as well, but I'm thinking I want a 1911 while I can still get one. They only full sized 1911's in stock are 700+

Here's a pic -

12/31/12 2:59 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Smoldy 23 Member Since: 8/1/10 Posts: 1271	Glock or 1911 1911 dude!!!! You have ignored this user.

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