UnderGround Forum >> Rebney: 'Key misunderstanding' with Alvarez

MMALOGIC - 

Chris27 - It seems like the UFC fucked up by not guaranteeing PPV spots, seems like he can make PPV money if he headlines a PPV but its not guaranteed.

Bellator says they can do the same, if we do a PPV you can get points, they dont have to though just like the UFC doesnt have to put Eddie on PPV main events.

If the UFC said you will get guaranteed PPV slots and points Bellator couldnt match that but since it seems the UFC didnt do that Bellator might win this.

the thing is even if they gaurantee a ppv slot and points, bellator could match it.  bellator can put on a ppv and give eddie the same amount of points... the problem is that the ppv would pull like 20k buys so the points and ppv slot would be worthless.

but technically the term of the deal would be matched.

ppv slots and points is not the biggest challenge for belltor in matching... it's the signing bonus, show money, win money and any other payments for sponsorships with UFC apperal, appearances as an analyst on UFC programming, etc...

the gauranteed money is the challenge for bellator.

I think Zuffa structured the deal like this on purpose.  They were baiting bellator and they took the bait.  This was a clear sign to everyone on bellators roster or anyone thinking of signing with bellator, and any coach, manager that they'll be stuck there even after their 4 year deals.... which severely limits their upside.

this is the supply side.  you also have the bad PR with fan bakclash which is the demand side.  I think Zuffa baited them and they took the bait.

Zuffa could have easily taken the points out and said everytime you fight for a title you get 500k dollars.

Bellator could not monetize that because the only way eddie is worth the 250k signing bonus and 70+70 to bellator is if he's fighting chandler ie: for the title which would add 500k more to his purse.

 

herwil10 - 

Ramon Maroni - 

herwil10 - 

Matrixkick -  What is Lombard making?!

Lombard got a $400,000 signing bonus,$300,000 purse per fight and pay-per-view points...

Source?

I find it hard to believe he is making 300K per fight plus ppv revnue

http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/10/27/3561868/bellator-set-to-expedite-eddie-alvarezs-free-agency-decision

"Rebney said that contract, which according to him paid Lombard a $400,000 signing bonus, a $300,000 starting purse per fight and pay-per-view participation points, was cost-prohibitive from Bellator's standpoint."

^ maybe they wouldnt match a gauranteed ppv slot but why would zuffa guarantee him a ppv slot and ppv money?  might as well pay him 300k a fight like they do Lombard.

all they would have to do is guarantee him 500k for every title fight he's in.  Bellator wouldnt be able to match that and zuffa wouldnt have to pay him big money unless he can win fights to get to a title fight.

There's all sorts of ways zuffa could have made it impossible for bellator to match without paying out more money and that's why i think they did it this way to bait bellator into this situation.

what if UFC said you get 10 million dollars everytime you fight in a round cage?  how can bellator match that?

you get 10 million dollars every fight you show up for in 2013 that gets aired on spike in 2013... how can bellator match that?

there are hundreds of poison pills Zuffa could have included in the deal to make it impossible for bellator to match.

MMALOGIC - 

what if UFC said you get 10 million dollars everytime you fight in a round cage?  how can bellator match that?

you get 10 million dollars every fight you show up for in 2013 that gets aired on spike in 2013... how can bellator match that?

there are hundreds of poison pills Zuffa could have included in the deal to make it impossible for bellator to match.

its very possible that the contract only requires bellator to match guaranteed monetary compensation, nothing else...

Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 

MMALOGIC - 

what if UFC said you get 10 million dollars everytime you fight in a round cage?  how can bellator match that?

you get 10 million dollars every fight you show up for in 2013 that gets aired on spike in 2013... how can bellator match that?

there are hundreds of poison pills Zuffa could have included in the deal to make it impossible for bellator to match.

its very possible that the contract only requires bellator to match guaranteed monetary compensation, nothing else...

you might be right, but I don't think that's the case... a matching contract would include bonus provisions as well, and since Bellator doesn't even offer PPV, I'm not sure how anyone would consider the 2 contracts the same?

Cyril Jeff - 

Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 

MMALOGIC - 

what if UFC said you get 10 million dollars everytime you fight in a round cage?  how can bellator match that?

you get 10 million dollars every fight you show up for in 2013 that gets aired on spike in 2013... how can bellator match that?

there are hundreds of poison pills Zuffa could have included in the deal to make it impossible for bellator to match.

its very possible that the contract only requires bellator to match guaranteed monetary compensation, nothing else...

 

you might be right, but I don't think that's the case... a matching contract would include bonus provisions as well, and since Bellator doesn't even offer PPV, I'm not sure how anyone would consider the 2 contracts the same?

well, bjorn said they only have to match the guaranteed money...he may be lying, but alvarez didnt really refute this, he just said ufc is lobster and bellator is mcdonalds..of course a ufc ppv and a bellator ppv are not equal in value, but theres no indication that the contract requires bellator to match value - otherwise it would be a no brainer..

and i doubt the right of first refusal requires bellator to match every single term offered or else the ufc could simply put something stupid in the contract, like you will fight for an orgarnization that starts with "u" and ends with "c"..presumably, bellator's attorneys are smart enough to foresee the very real probability that the one they would have to match would be the ufc, which has a ppv model..

I'm not doubting Bellator's Attorney's intelligence, I think they're throwing a hail Mary though, not sure how this will hold up in court?

seems like Viacom told them to "duke it out a bit", possibly to prevent more fighters from bolting?

Cyril Jeff - 

 

I'm not doubting Bellator's Attorney's intelligence, I think they're throwing a hail Mary though, not sure how this will hold up in court?

seems like Viacom told them to "duke it out a bit", possibly to prevent more fighters from bolting?

how what would hold up in court? if all the contract says is that all they have to match guaranteed money, there is no rule of law against that...this notion that they have to match value because that is what "match" means is a fan generated fantasy...

Matrixkick - 

herwil10 -

Matrixkick -  What is Lombard making?!

Lombard got a $400,000 signing bonus,$300,000 purse per fight and pay-per-view points...

Got damn! Hector's making it rain!

Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 

Cyril Jeff - 

Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 

MMALOGIC - 

what if UFC said you get 10 million dollars everytime you fight in a round cage?  how can bellator match that?

you get 10 million dollars every fight you show up for in 2013 that gets aired on spike in 2013... how can bellator match that?

there are hundreds of poison pills Zuffa could have included in the deal to make it impossible for bellator to match.

its very possible that the contract only requires bellator to match guaranteed monetary compensation, nothing else...

 

you might be right, but I don't think that's the case... a matching contract would include bonus provisions as well, and since Bellator doesn't even offer PPV, I'm not sure how anyone would consider the 2 contracts the same?

 

well, bjorn said they only have to match the guaranteed money...he may be lying, but alvarez didnt really refute this, he just said ufc is lobster and bellator is mcdonalds..of course a ufc ppv and a bellator ppv are not equal in value, but theres no indication that the contract requires bellator to match value - otherwise it would be a no brainer..

 

 

and i doubt the right of first refusal requires bellator to match every single term offered or else the ufc could simply put something stupid in the contract, like you will fight for an orgarnization that starts with "u" and ends with "c"..presumably, bellator's attorneys are smart enough to foresee the very real probability that the one they would have to match would be the ufc, which has a ppv model..

tyson nam's attorney is saying he can completely obliterate Bellators matching rights position in court within 6 to 9 months...  he's the guy who got tyson nam out of his bellashit nightmare.

wsof made an offer and bellator initially matched it... Tyson Nam's lawyer sent them back to their hole.

MMALOGIC - 

Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 

Cyril Jeff - 

Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 

MMALOGIC - 

what if UFC said you get 10 million dollars everytime you fight in a round cage?  how can bellator match that?

you get 10 million dollars every fight you show up for in 2013 that gets aired on spike in 2013... how can bellator match that?

there are hundreds of poison pills Zuffa could have included in the deal to make it impossible for bellator to match.

its very possible that the contract only requires bellator to match guaranteed monetary compensation, nothing else...

 

you might be right, but I don't think that's the case... a matching contract would include bonus provisions as well, and since Bellator doesn't even offer PPV, I'm not sure how anyone would consider the 2 contracts the same?

 

well, bjorn said they only have to match the guaranteed money...he may be lying, but alvarez didnt really refute this, he just said ufc is lobster and bellator is mcdonalds..of course a ufc ppv and a bellator ppv are not equal in value, but theres no indication that the contract requires bellator to match value - otherwise it would be a no brainer..

 

 

and i doubt the right of first refusal requires bellator to match every single term offered or else the ufc could simply put something stupid in the contract, like you will fight for an orgarnization that starts with "u" and ends with "c"..presumably, bellator's attorneys are smart enough to foresee the very real probability that the one they would have to match would be the ufc, which has a ppv model..

tyson nam's attorney is saying he can completely obliterate Bellators matching rights position in court within 6 to 9 months...  he's the guy who got tyson nam out of his bellashit nightmare.

wsof made an offer and bellator initially matched it... Tyson Nam's lawyer sent them back to their hole.

im not that familiar with tyson's situation. what happened exactly?> .i thought wsof made an offer, bellator matched, and then wsof made a higher offer and bellator didnt match?

If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 

MMALOGIC - 

what if UFC said you get 10 million dollars everytime you fight in a round cage?  how can bellator match that?

you get 10 million dollars every fight you show up for in 2013 that gets aired on spike in 2013... how can bellator match that?

there are hundreds of poison pills Zuffa could have included in the deal to make it impossible for bellator to match.

I've been saying that since the start, why not put them in the contract?
Even if they don't allow them just write that IF you become champion you will get $X per view (if it's on TV or PPV) and then if by chance any BFC fighter becomes champion, don't put them on a Fox card. It will essentially steal away any BFC big name fighter. Also state with 2 wins he gets a title fight which eliminates the possibility of him going to fight in a BFC tournament.

Just another idea

bingo... you came up with the perfect formula.

I believe zuffa understands what both you and I are saying...  I think they are doing this on purpose. 

The war between zuffa and spike is gonna last up to 3 years.

Alvarez and Lombard arent really names... the guys who are gonna be featured on spike with 600k to 800k eyeballs or more watching is what zuffa is gonna go hard after.

The lombard signing was a message to viacom that we can take whoever we want when their contract is over... the alvarez situation is a message to fighters, managers, coaches not to get stuck in bellator.

Zuffa may still end up with alvarez to send another message to viacom saying we just got 2 of the biggest names in the org you just purchased.... like that.  there goes your tape library that features alvarez and lombard.

OuTkAsTTTTT69 -  The thing I take from reading these articles is that Eddie would gain more from just being in the UFC.. not necessarily just the money but being in the promotion. They matched sure, but are they gonna match the exposure and marketing of the UFC? No

This seems about right.

The problem lies in that Bjorn feels that they matched everything they were obligated to match, and Eddie and his team do not.

Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 

OuTkAsTTTTT69 -  The thing I take from reading these articles is that Eddie would gain more from just being in the UFC.. not necessarily just the money but being in the promotion. They matched sure, but are they gonna match the exposure and marketing of the UFC? No

he shoulda thought of that when he chose bellator over the ufc

MMALOGIC -

Chris27 - It seems like the UFC fucked up by not guaranteeing PPV spots, seems like he can make PPV money if he headlines a PPV but its not guaranteed.

Bellator says they can do the same, if we do a PPV you can get points, they dont have to though just like the UFC doesnt have to put Eddie on PPV main events.

If the UFC said you will get guaranteed PPV slots and points Bellator couldnt match that but since it seems the UFC didnt do that Bellator might win this.

the thing is even if they gaurantee a ppv slot and points, bellator could match it.  bellator can put on a ppv and give eddie the same amount of points... the problem is that the ppv would pull like 20k buys so the points and ppv slot would be worthless.

but technically the term of the deal would be matched.

ppv slots and points is not the biggest challenge for belltor in matching... it's the signing bonus, show money, win money and any other payments for sponsorships with UFC apperal, appearances as an analyst on UFC programming, etc...

the gauranteed money is the challenge for bellator.

I think Zuffa structured the deal like this on purpose.  They were baiting bellator and they took the bait.  This was a clear sign to everyone on bellators roster or anyone thinking of signing with bellator, and any coach, manager that they'll be stuck there even after their 4 year deals.... which severely limits their upside.

this is the supply side.  you also have the bad PR with fan bakclash which is the demand side.  I think Zuffa baited them and they took the bait.

Zuffa could have easily taken the points out and said everytime you fight for a title you get 500k dollars.

Bellator could not monetize that because the only way eddie is worth the 250k signing bonus and 70+70 to bellator is if he's fighting chandler ie: for the title which would add 500k more to his purse.

 

I'm listening to Bloddy Elbow radio to hear what Bjorn has to say.  We shall see...

ttt

mmavixen -

I'm listening to Bloddy Elbow radio to hear what Bjorn has to say.  We shall see...