UnderGround Forum >> Vitor on TRT? ESPN article

Lazer MMA - 

Chimp Strength - 

chawkins - 

DonFreedomFrye - 

chawkins - There's nothing wrong with TRT. It's not the same as "juicing".

What exactly is "juicing"?

I thought it was athletes using anabolic-androgenic steroids to enhance their performance. That's exactly what fighters who undergo TRT do.

Take a careful look at the language and how it is used.

When people talk about "juicing" they're referring to raising one's T levels to supraphysiological levels - that is, levels greater than what a human body is supposed to have or produce - via the use of anabolid-androgenic steroids. If they weren't going above normal human levels, there'd be no reason to cry foul, right?

And in so doing, yes, "juicing" does enhance performance (if I had to nitpick, I'd point out that what they mainly enhance is recovery, which in turn enhances performance, but we can split those hairs another day).


When people talk about TRT, you have to remember what the "R" stands for - Replacement. TRT is a therapeutic technique meant to *replace* testosterone levels that have declined; not to elevate the body to supraphysiological levels, but to simply put them back to a healthy level. And in doing so, TRT can't really be said to be enhancing performance, but merely restoring it to what it used to be.

That's the difference.

Now, if you want to discuss whether athletes who are on TRT are *actually* on TRT anjd are *actually* restoring their hormone levels to their previous normal highs vs. merely claiming TRT as a cover for going supraphysiological, that's a real discussion that can be had.

Not sure whether you're serious or ignoring the facts.  Marquardt was on TRT yet was cut cause his levels were too high to compete.  Chael claimed TRT when his ratio was 16:1.  Standard levels for a normal human being, ie you or me, is 1:1.  Athletic commissions allow above this level, so users of TRT are only obliged to keep their levels within the acceptable ratios of the regulation athletic commission, 6:1 in some instances.  So I have no idea how you can think it's merely 'replacement'.  It's legal juicing, simple.

It's you who are ignoring the facts (again - on a bad roll) Chimp. Of course TRT can be abused duh. There are fighters on it that always monitor their levels and and with 'normal' limits and use it for health reasons. If they use it lke that it's not juicing.

Some people have higher than normal ratios so it should be cut to 3.5:1 IMO (that is VERY high and rare).

What's even more stupid (WORLD CLASS STUPID) is that you have one fighter after the next saying that 80 percent of the UFC roster is on the 'real juice', the last one being Stun Gun and not a peep do you hear from the UG!

How am I ignoring the facts?  Is it not a fact that the acceptable ratio varies from athletic commission to athletic commission?  Yes it's true that there are fighters such as Hendo that are regulalrly tested to check their levels but, I have never seen a definition of 'normal' provided by these fighters, please point me in the right direction if you have a source for their definition as otherwise I can assume that you cannot say for certain what they mean by it.  I have made the assumption that to them 'normal' is within the regulated level which can be as high as 6:1.  So if you have an athlete training with a level as high as 6:1 then they are gaining an advantage over your average person with a 1:1 ratio.  The number of athletes that are 'juicing' is a separate issue.  So, to reiterate the point, what facts am I ignoring exactly?  Bearing in mind what I have just written to explain my position.

I wouldn't like to make a sweeping statement that people shouldn't be allowed to take TRT, but I'm certainly against a guy who should be in the twilight of his career taking it to prolong his competitiveness or someone who has wrecked their body through juicing.  I'm also against people taking illegal testostrone suppliments.  I think half of the problem is that the UFC probably fear what would happen to their sport if people were caught out.  I'm not sure what to think when people like Stun Gun come out with figures like 80% as they never provide any proof and I have no idea on a personal level.