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UnderGround Forum >> WarMachine accusing Lloyd Irvin of rape
| 1/10/13 7:11 PM | |
WoodenPupa
56 
Member Since: 7/24/02 Posts: 7325 |
The noodle-defense maybe confused the jurors as to an application of attempted force? Maybe he said he didn't even touch her. But still. |
| 1/10/13 7:13 PM | |
DanEzra
15
Edited: 01/10/13 7:14 PM Member Since: 3/19/09 Posts: 1045 |
MTH -WoodenPupa - Anyway, this stuff is very confusing to a layman. What does "forcible sodomy" mean if not rape?
This is the current criminal code, not sure what it was in 1990. § 18.2-61. Rape. A. If any person has sexual intercourse with a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, to engage in sexual intercourse with any other person and such act is accomplished (i) against the complaining witness's will, by force, threat or intimidation of or against the complaining witness or another person; or (ii) through the use of the complaining witness's mental incapacity or physical helplessness; or (iii) with a child under age 13 as the victim, he or she shall be guilty of rape. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-61 ========================================================== § 18.2-67.1. Forcible sodomy. A. An accused shall be guilty of forcible sodomy if he or she engages in cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus, or anal intercourse with a complaining witness whether or not his or her spouse, or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, to engage in such acts with any other person, and 1. The complaining witness is less than 13 years of age; or 2. The act is accomplished against the will of the complaining witness, by force, threat or intimidation of or against the complaining witness or another person, or through the use of the complaining witness's mental incapacity or physical helplessness. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-67.1 |
| 1/10/13 7:20 PM | |
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WoodenPupa
56
Member Since: 7/24/02 Posts: 7326 |
It looks like we nearly converged on the same code Ezra. So it looks like 18.2-67.5 includes an "attempted" distinction, but I won't pretend to understand it in proper legal context. |
| 1/10/13 7:21 PM | |
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SinCityHustler
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 11461 |
Bootsy Collins -Timothyk -2JupitersTooMany -Timothyk - Do you really think this girl went over to hang out with a bunch of dudes, and not have sex with any of them? Do you know how many girls have trains run on them? Or like to be hit while fucked? Or lie about rape to soothe parent anger? Actually a fiance' is a man. So he's engaged to marry a man, (a he). |
| 1/10/13 7:33 PM | |
2JupitersTooMany
641
Member Since: 5/14/06 Posts: 31761 |
WoodenPupa - It looks like we nearly converged on the same code Ezra. So it looks like 18.2-67.5 includes an "attempted" distinction, but I won't pretend to understand it in proper legal context.Looks like I have no idea what I'm talking about. 
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| 1/10/13 7:35 PM | |
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Stache
14
Member Since: 10/16/10 Posts: 5640 |
Mark Hunter - OK, just one more attorney to chime in. How about this: None of us were in the room that night, so none of us on this thread have a clue what happened. Maybe the girl was telling the whole truth . . . maybe she wasn't. Same for the guys, including Lloyd Irvin. Bottom line: we have no clue. Since when is one required to be present at a crime to pass judgement on it? Isn't that what judges, juries and the legal system, in general, are for? I thought lawyers were trained in logic. |
| 1/10/13 7:37 PM | |
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WoodenPupa
56
Member Since: 7/24/02 Posts: 7327 |
Sometimes a football comes out of left field...whattya gonna do? *Sopranos shrug* |
| 1/10/13 7:54 PM | |
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2JupitersTooMany
641
Member Since: 5/14/06 Posts: 31763 |
superCalo - If it was done in the dark but lyold irvin the black man got accused, guy shouldnt smile in those circumstanceslol
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| 1/10/13 8:03 PM | |
Madrugadao
Member Since: 5/22/11 Posts: 432 |
I appreciate playing devils advocate is not popular here but I am a little unclear on what is going on. Was he tried for a crime and found innocent? Or, was he just innocent of rape but guilty of something else? |
| 1/10/13 8:11 PM | |
cheesesteak
133
Member Since: 11/23/02 Posts: 3527 |
Madrugadao - I appreciate playing devils advocate is not popular here but I am a little unclear on what is going on. from the articles I have read it seems that he was tied for a crime and found innocent. However, the reason he was innocent seems to be because when he was up at bat at the gang rape he couldn't perform....This is what I am gathering so far...I think it would be wise for Lloyd to make a statement and clear this up if this is incorrect.... |
| 1/10/13 8:30 PM | |
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cheesesteak
133
Member Since: 11/23/02 Posts: 3528 |
He obviously has his eyes on his twitter and FB like a hawk. I doubt he will be sleeping anytime soon trying to moderate that shit... Dude it's out there. Why don't you just come out and explain what happened instead of everyone in the mma/bjj community wondering if you have a gang raping mentality. Make a statement you turkey! You can't just sit there erasing negative comments of your twitter forever and hope we all forget tomorrow...It's serious shit and you need to explain if you want to continue to Don Lepre peoples asses at seminars and strut around in your expensive suits flossin and shit |
| 1/10/13 8:32 PM | |
TylerA
Member Since: 12/27/11 Posts: 41 |
Mark Hunter - OK, just one more attorney to chime in. How about this: None of us were in the room that night, so none of us on this thread have a clue what happened. Maybe the girl was telling the whole truth . . . maybe she wasn't. Same for the guys, including Lloyd Irvin. Bottom line: we have no clue. Have to agree. No one knows for sure what happened, unfortunately. People lie all the time so either side could be telling the truth. Plus, it never ceases to surprise me what intoxicated people are capable of. |
| 1/10/13 8:41 PM | |
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JasonSB
Member Since: 12/26/09 Posts: 121 |
I'm confused as well. So they say he didn't participate (limpness), but was at least there during the gang rape? Correct.? If that's the case isn't this the same as saying he was aware there was a gang rape (a crime) taking place @ the residence where he was @. If so does the legal system not have something to charge him with since he was aware of a crime taking place even if he himself claimed to not have taken part in any of the criminal acts. I'm super confused. |
| 1/10/13 9:06 PM | |
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Stache
14
Member Since: 10/16/10 Posts: 5641 |
JasonSB - I'm confused as well. So they say he didn't participate (limpness), but was at least there during the gang rape? Correct.? If that's the case isn't this the same as saying he was aware there was a gang rape (a crime) taking place @ the residence where he was @. If so does the legal system not have something to charge him with since he was aware of a crime taking place even if he himself claimed to not have taken part in any of the criminal acts. I'm super confused. I'm no lawyer but I imagine that it would depend on the laws of the jurisdiction where the crime took place. Different regions would have different standards for legal duty of care. |
| 1/10/13 9:23 PM | |
HELWIG
Member Since: 5/28/03 Posts: 67877 |
Call me a jerkoff but there shouldnt be ANY tolerance or rationalization of this kind of shit. Rape, child molesting, all forms of deviant sexuality. Its not "oh a mistake". Its ruining someone for life. |
| 1/10/13 9:42 PM | |
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burner22
7
Member Since: 8/17/12 Posts: 631 |
HELWIG -Agree 100%
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| 1/10/13 9:53 PM | |
Drugs_Delaney
26
Member Since: 8/19/09 Posts: 8309 |
burner22 -HELWIG -Agree 100% but these women are just asking for it, looking for a good time an such. -the UG/OG scumbags |
| 1/10/13 10:04 PM | |
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Hargreaves
13
Edited: 01/10/13 10:17 PM Member Since: 10/15/06 Posts: 821 |
. |
| 1/10/13 10:15 PM | |
LittleC
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 3014 |
Wow. A ten page thread about a guy who DIDNT fuck somebody 20 years ago. And somehow that translates into him promoting rape within the academy. |
| 1/10/13 10:17 PM | |
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aboveandbeyond
1
Member Since: 5/1/10 Posts: 1413 |
This place is worse than an Indian bus after sun down. It's like some of you have this visceral reaction of "that fucking worthless whore deserved it" whenever you hear the word rape. In regards to the article, this is all I needed to read right here: "Irvin walked free, not because he did the right thing and refused to have sex with a 17-year-old. He testified that he wanted to have intercourse with her but couldn't". Of course there is a degree of speculation to this, and I know the hackneyed, knee-jerk arguments defense attorneys spit out (especially when the case is bad). I was an assistant public defender. If there is one thing public defenders get experience in, it's taking loser cases to trial and crossing your fingers. I'm not Clarence Darrow, but I have a decent feel for when a case is desperate. If you're the defendant, and you're testifying that you WANTED to have sex with the victim in a rape trial, you're in a bad fucking spot. Why would he state that? Again speculation, but my guess is pretty damning evidence against him. He was stuck in a fully extended armbar, and got out with the hitch hike escape. |
| 1/10/13 10:29 PM | |
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Hargreaves
13
Edited: 01/11/13 1:16 PM Member Since: 10/15/06 Posts: 822 |
. |
| 1/10/13 10:39 PM | |
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shinbang
Member Since: 3/17/11 Posts: 441 |
Timothyk - Do you really think this girl went over to hang out with a bunch of dudes, and not have sex with any of them? Do you know how many girls have trains run on them? Or like to be hit while fucked? Or lie about rape to soothe parent anger? absolutely speechless |
| 1/10/13 10:54 PM | |
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alkysmurf
26
Member Since: 2/7/09 Posts: 1618 |
So this guy is put in a bad situation at a party when he is 20 and most likely drinking. he deflects his way out of participating, and then seems to have cooperated with authorities, I assume he also completed any sentencing requirements for any other charges. Meaning he has served any time for any crime that he was guilty of, in my eyes he is a free man. According to the judge society is repaid. Now, possibly as a result of what he personally seen happen to women, he teaches them how to protect themselves. And you guys jump all over his shit, before hearing his side of a 20yr old story. 
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| 1/10/13 10:56 PM | |
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WoodenPupa
56
Member Since: 7/24/02 Posts: 7330 |
HELWIG - Sometimes the victims themselves forgive the perpetrator, even in cases where the perp refuses to admit guilt. I've often questioned how satisfying or empowering THAT can really be; but in cases where the perp admits to wrong-doing, and shows repentance, showing forgiveness can help achieve mental health again. But there are victims who don't forgive anything, yet can simply move on by their own will---"That which does not kill me makes me stronger." But of course just saying this, as opposed to actually carrying it out, are entirely different things. No doubt many people are "ruined" by sexual abuse, and only a low percentage of people in reality manage to overcome it. But some are able to, and they show something important about the human condition. |
| 1/10/13 11:02 PM | |
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shinbang
Member Since: 3/17/11 Posts: 442 |
There's more Attorneys in here than in a courtroom |
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