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Can Diaz actually use his BJJ on GSP?

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1/9/13 4:57 PM

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joe canada 19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 3619

Aside from Hughes' successful armbar, the closest anyone's been to subbing GSP was Karo back at UFC 46.

Since then, the only guy (aside from Hughes) who's even looked like he was close to setting up a sub was Condit, who displayed some phenomenal guard work.

Everyone else -- every one else -- has been completely shut down off their backs by GSP's top game as far as sub attempts go.

What does Diaz bring to the guard game that Penn, Condit, Shields, etc didn't.

Diaz needs to stay off his back as thought it were covered with tacks. Otherwise, GSP's going to take him down and open his brows up with elbows and grinding ground and pound. Round after bloody round.

1/9/13 5:02 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
FinestScotch Member Since: 7/16/12 Posts: 1794	Jimmy Rustler - GSP has better BJJ honestly I won't let you rustle. You have ignored this user.

1/9/13 5:36 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
patches Member Since: 12/22/09 Posts: 180	Jimmy Rustler - GSP has better BJJ honestly then who? diaz? you're nutz.. and btw......does anyone wonder why gsp shaves his whole body and wears tight small shorts?....the slip factor You have ignored this user.

1/9/13 5:41 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
fishyfish 5 Member Since: 6/28/03 Posts: 6430	I see : 1. Diaz's footwork not being fast enough, so GSP takes him down 2. a scary gogoplata attempt You have ignored this user.

1/11/13 2:13 PM

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Mark Hunter 3 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 3421

Jimmy Rustler -
Diaz has ZERO advantages on GSP.

GSP is bigger

GSP is strong

GSP is more athletic

GSP has better cardio

GSP hits harder

GSP has better striking

GSP has better grappling (yes, Black Belt in BJJ + world class wrestling is better than Nicks BJJ)

GSP has better fight IQ by far

GSP is faster

I dont see how Diaz wins this fight..

And im neutral with them, im not a GSP fan nor a diaz fan

It's ironic, because your post is pretty much spot on (with one possible exception below), but I think the fight is much closer then your post makes it appear.

GSP hits harder, but Diaz will likely hit GSP ten times more often than GSP hits Diaz. Diaz' pitter-patter has a way of throwing conventional strikers off their game.

The one exception is that I'm not sure that GSP has better grappling than Diaz. If they did a straight grappling match, I'd put a nice wager on Diaz. When you mix in striking, I still like Diaz' open guard. GSP will have the benefit of preparing with John Danaher and Renzo's gang for the fight, and I'm sure they'll work extensively on posture to avoid getting swept or submitted. But when GSP steps over Diaz' guard into half guard to begin punishing Diaz, I'm really looking forward to seeing how Diaz manipulates GSP's weight for a sweep/scramble.

This is the "X factor" of this fight, IMO. As far as the striking, wrestling, cardio, etc., I think we all know how those elements will turn out.

1/11/13 2:37 PM

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Andy Rigg 3 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 10/25/12
Posts: 36

gsp is too good at analysing his opponents' games. it seems to me that the way to beat gsp is to have a solid game and add something unusual to it just for him. the kick that carlos dropped him with was a little strange and that's why it landed.

unless nick has been adding power head kicks or jump knees to his arsenal this is gonna be a 50-45 all the way.

incidentally, anderson silva adds something new for pretty much every opponent.

1/11/13 3:45 PM

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Wasa-B 46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42705

nick diaz nut hugger -
These are the transitions I mentioned earlier that Nick will need to avoid:

^This one I don't see happening as Nick generally doesn't kick as much as Carlos and won't throw a half-power leg kick like that.

Ones like this will be harder to avoid, which is where punching from different angles comes in. I don't see GSP outboxing Nick into the cage, but it just goes to show how smooth GSP transitions from the stand-up to the mat.

Its already a given that Diaz will get taken down. The question is what can either guy do on the ground.

1/11/13 3:47 PM

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Wasa-B 46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42706

kingkoopa -
orcus -
nick diaz nut hugger -
orcus -
"Probably not to get a submission tbh, but he can use it to constantly threaten submissions from weird angles to get the fight stood up."

That's not the way it works. Threatening submissions is not going to get the fight stood up; in fact it will ensure that it stays on the ground. If either guy is doing stuff, it's staying on the ground. If Nick wants to get stood up, he has to just hold on -- keep GSP from doing anything, and not do anything himself.

That's not what I was thinking in terms of getting the fight stood up. I was thinking in terms of GSP not wanting to engage too closely on the ground because it is too dngerous and too risky to get too close, causing GSP to voluntarily stand up and move back, getting the ref to stand the fight back up because GSP is sick of trying to engage on the ground.

Ah, gotcha. Honestly, I don't see anyone truly threatening GSP with a sub from the bottom. He's way too good a grappler and has way too big a speed/power advantage over his opponents.
Yup gsp top control is too good.

Diaz out boxed penn but imo Penn's bjj and guard game is better than nicks

Bj had nothing for gsp on the ground

Diaz has the better guard imo and is way bigger/longer.

1/11/13 3:49 PM

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Wasa-B 46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42707

Andy Rigg - gsp is too good at analysing his opponents' games. it seems to me that the way to beat gsp is to have a solid game and add something unusual to it just for him. the kick that carlos dropped him with was a little strange and that's why it landed.

unless nick has been adding power head kicks or jump knees to his arsenal this is gonna be a 50-45 all the way.

incidentally, anderson silva adds something new for pretty much every opponent.

you cant really add power anything if you're not really a power striker and diaz is not.

i agree on something unorthodox perhaps being the best chance at catching GSP and Condit is more unorthodox than most but GSP mentioned that his vision was a bit blurry on the side he got kicked. Fair game, it likely happened from a strike but it wasnt as if GSP got caught straight then imo and Nick doesnt that have big 1 strike power anyhow.

1/11/13 3:51 PM

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Wasa-B 46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42708

Jimmy Rustler -
Wasa-B -
kingkoopa -
orcus -
nick diaz nut hugger -
orcus -
"Probably not to get a submission tbh, but he can use it to constantly threaten submissions from weird angles to get the fight stood up."

That's not the way it works. Threatening submissions is not going to get the fight stood up; in fact it will ensure that it stays on the ground. If either guy is doing stuff, it's staying on the ground. If Nick wants to get stood up, he has to just hold on -- keep GSP from doing anything, and not do anything himself.

That's not what I was thinking in terms of getting the fight stood up. I was thinking in terms of GSP not wanting to engage too closely on the ground because it is too dngerous and too risky to get too close, causing GSP to voluntarily stand up and move back, getting the ref to stand the fight back up because GSP is sick of trying to engage on the ground.

Ah, gotcha. Honestly, I don't see anyone truly threatening GSP with a sub from the bottom. He's way too good a grappler and has way too big a speed/power advantage over his opponents.
Yup gsp top control is too good.

Diaz out boxed penn but imo Penn's bjj and guard game is better than nicks

Bj had nothing for gsp on the ground

Diaz has the better guard imo and is way bigger/longer.

when Diaz and BJ went to the ground in their fight, BJ took Nick's back pretty easily

not really.

it was off a td transition and Diaz "easily" reversed out of it. BJ never established clear back control and we know how sick that part of his game is.

im not saying Diaz's MMA BJJ is better than BJ's, im saying that at WW, it is because BJ is too small there.

1/11/13 3:52 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Wasa-B 46 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 42709	Andy Rigg, agreed on Anderson though, he's unpredictable, adaptable, creative....but there's only 1 Anderson. You have ignored this user.

1/11/13 4:10 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
fapout 506 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 17287	TuLegit - Will we finally see someone good enough to have a normal grappling match with him? GSP is always so positionally strong we never see him in a closed guard or rubber guard or any bad spot. Can nick do it? I think it'll be like the shields fight. no way Nick will get ragdolled and then cut up on the ground. You have ignored this user.

1/11/13 4:23 PM

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eljamaiquino

Member Since: 4/2/08
Posts: 3969

Farewell Brock -
Turkey bag boy -
ChaosOverkill -
Turkey bag boy - Vaseline...so no.

Yeah I'm a BJ Penn fan.

Wambulance is on the way

Hasn't it been proven that GSP's corner man rubbed vaseline on his body in between rounds? I'm sure he is still trying to find some sort of advantage.

I'm just saying Nick probably won't be able to do much when GSP is slipping out of every sub attempt.
Ya it was proven, that's why it was ruled a NC

It was proven, but there was no specific rule against it, so they couldnt overturn the win. Just like Barnett has his win over Randy even though he failed the drug test. The AC then changed the rule so a drug user couldnt keep the win. Phone Post

1/11/13 7:06 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Il Duce 35 Member Since: 2/1/12 Posts: 435	Letibleu - My honest unbiased cough cough prediction, TKO doctor stoppage due to cuts and blood in the eyes. I have seen this same vision. You have ignored this user.

1/11/13 8:51 PM

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Wasa-B 46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42710

Jimmy Rustler -
Wasa-B -
Jimmy Rustler -
Wasa-B -
kingkoopa -
orcus -
nick diaz nut hugger -
orcus -
"Probably not to get a submission tbh, but he can use it to constantly threaten submissions from weird angles to get the fight stood up."

That's not the way it works. Threatening submissions is not going to get the fight stood up; in fact it will ensure that it stays on the ground. If either guy is doing stuff, it's staying on the ground. If Nick wants to get stood up, he has to just hold on -- keep GSP from doing anything, and not do anything himself.

That's not what I was thinking in terms of getting the fight stood up. I was thinking in terms of GSP not wanting to engage too closely on the ground because it is too dngerous and too risky to get too close, causing GSP to voluntarily stand up and move back, getting the ref to stand the fight back up because GSP is sick of trying to engage on the ground.

Ah, gotcha. Honestly, I don't see anyone truly threatening GSP with a sub from the bottom. He's way too good a grappler and has way too big a speed/power advantage over his opponents.
Yup gsp top control is too good.

Diaz out boxed penn but imo Penn's bjj and guard game is better than nicks

Bj had nothing for gsp on the ground

Diaz has the better guard imo and is way bigger/longer.

when Diaz and BJ went to the ground in their fight, BJ took Nick's back pretty easily

not really.

it was off a td transition and Diaz "easily" reversed out of it. BJ never established clear back control and we know how sick that part of his game is.

im not saying Diaz's MMA BJJ is better than BJ's, im saying that at WW, it is because BJ is too small there.

well, even BJ's non MMA BJJ is more accomplished than Diaz... BJ is a world champion

Nick Diaz:

BJ Penn:

Thanks for the info, 12er. Never heard about the world champ thing. ;p

1/11/13 9:06 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
omlet de fromage Member Since: 10/30/11 Posts: 798	I think GSP will take Diaz down around 5 times and cut him up. But also not play into Diaz's standup and do some damage standing up. You have ignored this user.

1/11/13 9:13 PM

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HenryO

Member Since: 8/1/12
Posts: 1733

orcus -
"Probably not to get a submission tbh, but he can use it to constantly threaten submissions from weird angles to get the fight stood up."

That's not the way it works. Threatening submissions is not going to get the fight stood up; in fact it will ensure that it stays on the ground. If either guy is doing stuff, it's staying on the ground. If Nick wants to get stood up, he has to just hold on -- keep GSP from doing anything, and not do anything himself.

This is the truth it really makes for a broken system.

Being tentative is what is rewarded from both the bottom and top in the unified rules.

Emphasis should be on trying to win the fight

1/11/13 9:33 PM

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Lil P

Member Since: 9/16/08
Posts: 474

Wow I honestly cant believe so many people are sleeping on Diaz's guard. Especially since we have never seen GSP face anyone with a guard as tricky as Nicks. BJ is the closest thing and he is much more known for his passes and top control then for his guard. I see a lot of bad habits in GSP's top game which he does because he is so confident in his strength and sub defense, but that confidence might be his downfall. If he is in their trying to can opener Diaz the whole time like he did with Condit, you better believe Nick will be swinging armbars left and right on him.

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