UnderGround Forum >> WarMachine accusing Lloyd Irvin of rape

boooring -

Jump Kick -  Too many pages to sift through - can someone post the evidence that was used to conclude that the girl was forcibly raped vs. consensual? Did any of the convicts admit they forcibly raped her?

WTF? LOL!

Other than the 5 convictions for rape, no. No evidence was found of rape.

Jump Kick -  Too many pages to sift through - can someone post the evidence that was used to conclude that the girl was forcibly raped vs. consensual? Did any of the convicts admit they forcibly raped her?

Jump Kick -  Too many pages to sift through - can someone post the evidence that was used to conclude that the girl was forcibly raped vs. consensual? Did any of the convicts admit they forcibly raped her?

Holly Smith was a physician at Riverside Regional Medical Center in the early morning of Oct. 10, 1989, when the 17-year-old was brought in by a police detective for examination. Smith testified Friday that the exam was hampered because the woman suffered from vaginal spasms.

The doctor said the disorder virtually always is the result of rape, rather than consensual sexual intercourse, and that the condition can last for years. Often, she said, women explain that they cannot have intercourse after they have been raped because they get scared and begin to experience the spasms.

``It is very common after rape,'' said Smith. ``It is not common otherwise.''
 

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Jump Kick -  Too many pages to sift through - can someone post the evidence that was used to conclude that the girl was forcibly raped vs. consensual? Did any of the convicts admit they forcibly raped her?

Holly Smith was a physician at Riverside Regional Medical Center in the early morning of Oct. 10, 1989, when the 17-year-old was brought in by a police detective for examination. Smith testified Friday that the exam was hampered because the woman suffered from vaginal spasms.

The doctor said the disorder virtually always is the result of rape, rather than consensual sexual intercourse, and that the condition can last for years. Often, she said, women explain that they cannot have intercourse after they have been raped because they get scared and begin to experience the spasms.

``It is very common after rape,'' said Smith. ``It is not common otherwise.''
 

AFAIK, the transcipts are no longer available.  The girl had been punched in the face, and was experiencing vaginal spasms.  A doctor testified they are almost exclusively the result of forcible sex, and almost never the result of consenual sex, no matter how 'rough'.

And TLI (Too Limp Irvin) was found not guilty, because of the reasonable doubt introduced by the testimony that she was being forcibly orally sodomized by TLI's friend while "Master" Irvin 'tried' to rape her.  Because there was more than one person in the room while TLI attempted rape, the jury bought the defense argument that it could have been someone else who jumped in and began forcibly raping the victim.  TLI is far removed from 'innocent'.

My belief is that Lloyd was the only one who didn't claim consensual sex in their statement to the police, and the lawyer propositioned the TLI-defense.

UGCTT_whittaker_is_the _real_demolition _man - 

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Jump Kick -  Too many pages to sift through - can someone post the evidence that was used to conclude that the girl was forcibly raped vs. consensual? Did any of the convicts admit they forcibly raped her?

Holly Smith was a physician at Riverside Regional Medical Center in the early morning of Oct. 10, 1989, when the 17-year-old was brought in by a police detective for examination. Smith testified Friday that the exam was hampered because the woman suffered from vaginal spasms.

The doctor said the disorder virtually always is the result of rape, rather than consensual sexual intercourse, and that the condition can last for years. Often, she said, women explain that they cannot have intercourse after they have been raped because they get scared and begin to experience the spasms.

``It is very common after rape,'' said Smith. ``It is not common otherwise.''
 

Thanks.

What was the deal with Lloyd and the other guy? Why was one convicted and other not? Other than limp dick obviously.

"Irvin walked free, not because he did the right thing and refused to have sex with a 17-year-old. He testified that he wanted to have intercourse with her but couldn't.

Gatling's rape charge stemmed from an accusation that he held the girl down while Irvin had intercourse with her. Since the jury believed Irvin didn't have intercourse, Gatling couldn't have helped him. So Gatling could be convicted only of forcing the 17-year-old to perform oral sex.

Ah, justice."

Read the article.

For those of you trying to get this information out to the general public on Lloyd Irvin's history with attempted rape, I would suggest working on getting proof that the Lloyd Irvin in the case in 1990 at Hampton University is the same one as the BJJ instructor and getting his Wikipedia page updated. Right now, his Wikipedia page is locked from being updated due to Wikipedia policies on Biographies of Living Persons (BLPs). If you look at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lloyd_Irvin page, it describes the concerns holding up adding the information on the rape case to Lloyd Irvin's Wikipedia page. Unless those concerns are addressed, the information on Llyod's participation in the gang rape of a 17 year old little girl will never be added to his Wikipedia page.

For some perspective, if "lloyd irvin" or "lloyd irvin bjj" is googled, the link to his Wikipedia page comes up in the top 3 matches and will continue to do so after most of the current outrage dies down (no matter what everyone thinks today, this will blow over at some point for most people over time). Once the current news stories move off of the front page, the only matches on the first page of a google search will be information that is put out by Llyod and his Wikipedia page. 1-2 years from now, I think it will still be important that people that are searching for a place to train BJJ and search on Llyod Irvin still have full access to information on his willing participation of a brutal rape.

There are currently three items that will need to be specifically addressed before the information on the rape can be added to the Llyod Irvin Wikipedia page. From the Talk page:

"I'll outline and summarize the main issues as I see them:

* Only one source to substantiate allegations

There only seems to be one original source (http://articles.dailypress.com/) that mentions the case. I get the reason for the limited coverage at the time but, as established, it should not be allowed to stand as the sole source for such defaming allegations. The source itself seems fairly authoritative, though I think it’s odd that they reference Irvin in the actual URL links when he wasn’t even the man convicted. Regardless, even if the original court/police records are destroyed certainly someone from the time should be able to give an interview or something; there must be other sources somewhere.

* Questions regarding which 'Lloyd E. Irvin' is referenced

I’ll admit that it does look indeed probable that this Lloyd Irvin is the same ‘Lloyd E. Irvin’ in the article (a simple White Pages/person locator search reveals only three publicly listed Lloyd E. Irvins) but a number of the articles detailing the case are careful to make clear they aren’t sure the Dailypress article is actually referencing the martial arts instructor, which I find troubling.

* As a somewhat polarizing figure he does have a camp of passionate detractors

This last factor is what makes me a bit more suspicious about this case than a good many other bios. As a west-coaster, I have no real idea why this is other than to assume that if Irvin’s market share were a lot smaller it would help out competitors in the mid-atlantic states and/or a lot of people dislike his annoying/aggressive marketing. Whatever the reason, it leads to pages like this which I assume are fueled by something other than the moral outrage which might stem from a crime alleged 23 years ago that a jury found he didn’t even commit...Buddy23Lee (talk) 20:51, 15 January 2013 (UTC)"

Mata_Leon - 

For those of you trying to get this information out to the general public on Lloyd Irvin's history with attempted rape, I would suggest working on getting proof that the Lloyd Irvin in the case in 1990 at Hampton University is the same one as the BJJ instructor and getting his Wikipedia page updated. Right now, his Wikipedia page is locked from being updated due to Wikipedia policies on Biographies of Living Persons (BLPs). If you look at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lloyd_Irvin page, it describes the concerns holding up adding the information on the rape case to Lloyd Irvin's Wikipedia page. Unless those concerns are addressed, the information on Llyod's participation in the gang rape of a 17 year old little girl will never be added to his Wikipedia page.

For some perspective, if "lloyd irvin" or "lloyd irvin bjj" is googled, the link to his Wikipedia page comes up in the top 3 matches and will continue to do so after most of the current outrage dies down (no matter what everyone thinks today, this will blow over at some point for most people over time). Once the current news stories move off of the front page, the only matches on the first page of a google search will be information that is put out by Llyod and his Wikipedia page. 1-2 years from now, I think it will still be important that people that are searching for a place to train BJJ and search on Llyod Irvin still have full access to information on his willing participation of a brutal rape.

There are currently three items that will need to be specifically addressed before the information on the rape can be added to the Llyod Irvin Wikipedia page. From the Talk page:

"I'll outline and summarize the main issues as I see them:

* Only one source to substantiate allegations

There only seems to be one original source (http://articles.dailypress.com/) that mentions the case. I get the reason for the limited coverage at the time but, as established, it should not be allowed to stand as the sole source for such defaming allegations. The source itself seems fairly authoritative, though I think it’s odd that they reference Irvin in the actual URL links when he wasn’t even the man convicted. Regardless, even if the original court/police records are destroyed certainly someone from the time should be able to give an interview or something; there must be other sources somewhere.

* Questions regarding which 'Lloyd E. Irvin' is referenced

I’ll admit that it does look indeed probable that this Lloyd Irvin is the same ‘Lloyd E. Irvin’ in the article (a simple White Pages/person locator search reveals only three publicly listed Lloyd E. Irvins) but a number of the articles detailing the case are careful to make clear they aren’t sure the Dailypress article is actually referencing the martial arts instructor, which I find troubling.

* As a somewhat polarizing figure he does have a camp of passionate detractors

This last factor is what makes me a bit more suspicious about this case than a good many other bios. As a west-coaster, I have no real idea why this is other than to assume that if Irvin’s market share were a lot smaller it would help out competitors in the mid-atlantic states and/or a lot of people dislike his annoying/aggressive marketing. Whatever the reason, it leads to pages like this which I assume are fueled by something other than the moral outrage which might stem from a crime alleged 23 years ago that a jury found he didn’t even commit...Buddy23Lee (talk) 20:51, 15 January 2013 (UTC)"

KevinMcAllister - A little more evidence that it's the same Lloyd.


Traffic case involving Lloyd Emory Irvin Je.

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=000000GQ06208

Ok if this doesn't work I'm going to go into a mild depression. 

Traffic case involving Lloyd Emory Irvin Jr. 

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=000000GQ06208&loc=20&detailLoc=DSTRAF

cheesesteak - 

Mata_Leon - 

For those of you trying to get this information out to the general public on Lloyd Irvin's history with attempted rape, I would suggest working on getting proof that the Lloyd Irvin in the case in 1990 at Hampton University is the same one as the BJJ instructor and getting his Wikipedia page updated. Right now, his Wikipedia page is locked from being updated due to Wikipedia policies on Biographies of Living Persons (BLPs). If you look at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lloyd_Irvin page, it describes the concerns holding up adding the information on the rape case to Lloyd Irvin's Wikipedia page. Unless those concerns are addressed, the information on Llyod's participation in the gang rape of a 17 year old little girl will never be added to his Wikipedia page.

For some perspective, if "lloyd irvin" or "lloyd irvin bjj" is googled, the link to his Wikipedia page comes up in the top 3 matches and will continue to do so after most of the current outrage dies down (no matter what everyone thinks today, this will blow over at some point for most people over time). Once the current news stories move off of the front page, the only matches on the first page of a google search will be information that is put out by Llyod and his Wikipedia page. 1-2 years from now, I think it will still be important that people that are searching for a place to train BJJ and search on Llyod Irvin still have full access to information on his willing participation of a brutal rape.

There are currently three items that will need to be specifically addressed before the information on the rape can be added to the Llyod Irvin Wikipedia page. From the Talk page:

"I'll outline and summarize the main issues as I see them:

* Only one source to substantiate allegations

There only seems to be one original source (http://articles.dailypress.com/) that mentions the case. I get the reason for the limited coverage at the time but, as established, it should not be allowed to stand as the sole source for such defaming allegations. The source itself seems fairly authoritative, though I think it’s odd that they reference Irvin in the actual URL links when he wasn’t even the man convicted. Regardless, even if the original court/police records are destroyed certainly someone from the time should be able to give an interview or something; there must be other sources somewhere.

* Questions regarding which 'Lloyd E. Irvin' is referenced

I’ll admit that it does look indeed probable that this Lloyd Irvin is the same ‘Lloyd E. Irvin’ in the article (a simple White Pages/person locator search reveals only three publicly listed Lloyd E. Irvins) but a number of the articles detailing the case are careful to make clear they aren’t sure the Dailypress article is actually referencing the martial arts instructor, which I find troubling.

* As a somewhat polarizing figure he does have a camp of passionate detractors

This last factor is what makes me a bit more suspicious about this case than a good many other bios. As a west-coaster, I have no real idea why this is other than to assume that if Irvin’s market share were a lot smaller it would help out competitors in the mid-atlantic states and/or a lot of people dislike his annoying/aggressive marketing. Whatever the reason, it leads to pages like this which I assume are fueled by something other than the moral outrage which might stem from a crime alleged 23 years ago that a jury found he didn’t even commit...Buddy23Lee (talk) 20:51, 15 January 2013 (UTC)"

I don't know about you but if the internet was filled with gossip about me raping somebody in 1989 and people where making comments on my FB and forums and the such.


I would at the very least answer one person and tell them thet is the wrong guy. SEO attemps and post deletions would be on my list of things to do but even higher on my list would be getting the word out there that it WAS NOT ME?

Make sense? This is what all of us here speculating are not understanding.

I agree 100%. What I am saying though is the speculation by everyone and lack of response by Lloyd is not enough for Wikipedia to change their stance on having the information on the rape Llyod allegedly
participated in added to his biography page. Things like contacting the reporters that wrote the stories to get further information, gathering other corroborating sources, finding a way to definitively link the Lloyd in the rape case to the BJJ Lloyd will be the only way to get that information posted.

What I am saying is there is a lot of energy being spent ranting on MMA Internet forums (a very good start) but if people want to make a lasting impression, some of that energy needs to be focused in other non-MMA/BJJ directions. Unless a source like Wikipedia is updated, in a year or so, this story will only be known by people that are already in the MMA/BJJ community. When a family tries to research signing their kid up to start training, the first matches will all be information from Lloyd himself due to SEO and all of the other sources talking about the rape will be on pages 5+ of google search results. The single unbiased source that will always come in at the top of a search is Wikipedia.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Lloyd in the rape case and the BJJ instructor Lloyd are the same people and he participated in a gang rape 20 years ago. I also believe he got away with it due to a legal loophole. I believe he never paid for a brutal crime he committed against a minor and he is now looking to profit from the fears people have about people like him. With that said, unless sources outside of the MMA/BJJ community have this information and present it, he will continue to get away with it forever. He may take a short term hit with some affiliates leaving and he may lose some current students but long term he will be fine unless this becomes bigger than the current MMA/BJJ community.j

KevinMcAllister - 

Ok if this doesn't work I'm going to go into a mild depression. 

 

Traffic case involving Lloyd Emory Irvin Jr. 

 

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=000000GQ06208&loc=20&detailLoc=DSTRAF

 

Case involving Lloyd Emory Irvin. Note the two addresses listed. 

 

5922 Ladd Road and t/aUltimate Self Defense concepts. 

 

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=050200090512000&loc=20&detailLoc=DSCIVIL

 

Case involving divorce proceedings involving Lloyd E. Irvin Sr. And Rosalee Irvin. 

 

Note the address for Mr. Irvin is 5922 Ladd Road. That eliminates any possibility that Lloyd E. and Lloyd Emory are different people. 

 

Also, Rosalee is Lloyd's mom's name. 

 

http://www.lloydirvin.com/giveyourchildconfidence/mom.html

 

It's the same Lloyd from the case. 

 

Wow, this is like watching the /b/ detectives get to work.  Well done, but probably not fully conclusive yet.

Regardless, the way this whole thing has been handled by TLI since New Year's day has convinced me that something is seriously wrong with that camp.  I have little doubt it's the same Lloyd because he would have said otherwise, but maybe it's for some SEO reason I haven't thought of.

Either way, he produces fucking scumbags for minions.  Of that I have no doubt. 

Mata_Leon - ...he is now looking to profit from the fears people have about people like him...

UGCTT_Fillthy - 

AFAIK, the transcipts are no longer available.  The girl had been punched in the face, and was experiencing vaginal spasms.  A doctor testified they are almost exclusively the result of forcible sex, and almost never the result of consenual sex, no matter how 'rough'.

And TLI (Too Limp Irvin) was found not guilty, because of the reasonable doubt introduced by the testimony that she was being forcibly orally sodomized by TLI's friend while "Master" Irvin 'tried' to rape her.  Because there was more than one person in the room while TLI attempted rape, the jury bought the defense argument that it could have been someone else who jumped in and began forcibly raping the victim.  TLI is far removed from 'innocent'.

My belief is that Lloyd was the only one who didn't claim consensual sex in their statement to the police, and the lawyer propositioned the TLI-defense.