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Should UFC ban Lloyd Irvin from cornering?

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1/17/13 9:54 AM

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Voodoo 6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 8/7/04
Posts: 1056

Some states have a "moral code" attached to their licenses. I think Nevada does, but it is only related to convictions and LI wasn't convicted. In my state, Nebraska, we do not have that code attached to AC licenses so we had to let a convicted child molester compete, I was disgusted. I will be looking to change that in the future.

The UFC, however, can ban anyone they wish.

1/17/13 10:05 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
inf0 265 Member Since: 7/29/02 Posts: 66343	You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 10:06 AM

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NegoVeio 20 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 5/12/11
Posts: 274

JIM SPENCER

Decency: Real Issue In Rape Trial

April 25, 1990|By JIM SPENCER Columnist

I'm glad I wasn't on the jury that had to decide whether Terrence Gatling and Lloyd Irvin Jr. were guilty of gang-raping a 17-year-old Hampton University freshman.

Although the jurors found Gatling guilty of forcible sodomy, there was not enough evidence to convict either man of rape.

Still, when the three-day rape trial ended Monday, the defendants had revealed too much about themselves to be let off the hook for what happened Oct. 7 in Gatling's apartment.

On that evening a 17-year-old girl agreed to go to dinner with a group of male college students she barely knew. Then she agreed to go to an apartment with them for a party. Somewhere along the line she drank some booze.

By the end of the night, at least seven men had had sex with her. Neither Gatling, who is 21, nor Irvin, who is 20, tried to talk any of them out of it. Instead, they joined in. Or tried.

Irvin was saved by the fact that the jury believed he was impotent when it was his turn.

The rape trial was argued on the same turf as most rape trials: The girl, 5 feet 2 inches tall and 98 pounds, said she was forced to submit to the men's sexual advances. She said when she struggled with one of them, he hit her in the mouth. A medical report showed that her mouth was bruised.

The men said she was a willing participant in an orgy. Lawyers for Irvin and Gatling called witnesses who claimed they heard the girl encourage the men having sex with her.

The defendants also claimed that one of the first men to have sex with her came out of the bedroom yelling, "She's a freak. She's a freak."

Irvin and Gatling apparently took that to mean the 17-year-old was a nymphomaniac.

My question is: What difference does that make?

Does it justify being the seventh guy into the bedroom, or, for that matter, the first?

The jury didn't really address that.

"It was an emotional trial," one of the jurors, Barry Spigel, told me. "But we did a good job of getting rid of our own separate emotions and considering the evidence. The jury felt that there was reasonable doubt of whether a rape had occurred."

"I feel the girl was raped," said Bessie Singleton, another juror. "But the room where this happened was dark, and with all that was going on, it was unclear who was doing what."

"It's not over in my mind," Paul Hoyt, a third juror, confided. "These kinds of trials never are. You hope you call it correctly. I don't know what else you can do. We prayed to God for some guidance. I don't think anybody got any great revelations."

Without divine intervention, the trial turned on legal definitions. That's the only fair way, I know, but in this case it doesn't seem like enough.

Irvin walked free, not because he did the right thing and refused to have sex with a 17-year-old. He testified that he wanted to have intercourse with her but couldn't.

Gatling's rape charge stemmed from an accusation that he held the girl down while Irvin had intercourse with her. Since the jury believed Irvin didn't have intercourse, Gatling couldn't have helped him. So Gatling could be convicted only of forcing the 17-year-old to perform oral sex.

Ah, justice.

I accept the premise of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I understand that the girl used terrible judgment. But whether or not she consented to the sex acts that occurred as a result, they shouldn't have happened. What's more, there's no way for the men involved to blame somebody else.

The verdict took into consideration reasonable doubt. I just wish there was some way it could have also included moral outrage. Maybe then everyone could have learned the real lesson of this tragedy:

Decent people don't try to exploit others. Not even "freaks."

1/17/13 10:12 AM

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12 68 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 9/12/04
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Holly Smith was a physician at Riverside Regional Medical Center in the early morning of Oct. 10, 1989, when the 17-year-old was brought in by a police detective for examination. Smith testified Friday that the exam was hampered because the woman suffered from vaginal spasms.

The doctor said the disorder virtually always is the result of rape, rather than consensual sexual intercourse, and that the condition can last for years. Often, she said, women explain that they cannot have intercourse after they have been raped because they get scared and begin to experience the spasms.

``It is very common after rape,'' said Smith. ``It is not common otherwise.''

1/17/13 10:29 AM

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KingGo 43 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 4/6/12
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - I don't think it's the UFC's place to ban someone in this case. They aren't paying him anything and I don't think the UFC should tell their fighters who can and can't corner them without an official legal conviction. Just could set a bad precedent if the UFC started banning cornermen based on how they perceive their character.

I'd rather see the fighters realize who they are associating themselves with and cut it off. Train with someone else. Although I suppose if the story gets big enough Fox might tell the UFC they don't want fighters associating with LI.

I sure won't feel sorry for LI no matter how much he loses over this. Hopefully the UFC never has to consider doing anything to him because all the fighters will decide they're done with him.

This

1/17/13 11:24 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
blacksamurai Member Since: 4/11/05 Posts: 1645	12SixElbow - I don't think anyone involved in sexual crimes should get a license to be a cornerman. The NSAC stopped Diaz from cornering Nate because of pot. As much as i love my boy Nick LI wasn't convicted... You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 11:25 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
blacksamurai Member Since: 4/11/05 Posts: 1646	SOO72 - I bet DFW and Lorenzo don't want that guy within 500 feet of any UFC event from now on. But Mike Tyson a CONVICTED rapist and his old trainer said he molested his kid is cool sounds about right.... You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 11:32 AM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
MurdochIRL 13 Member Since: 5/25/05 Posts: 5196	I'm not sure what sponsor would want Lloyd to be wearing their gear. I wouldn't want him anywhere near a product I was promoting. Mess with the UFCs money and things will change faster than anything. You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 11:33 AM

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blacksamurai

Member Since: 4/11/05
Posts: 1647

JeffersonDArcyChoke - Honestly if Lloyd were a white guy with 88 inked on him, Dana would have made a statement.

Funny how Dana had NOTHING to do with Strikeforce yet came out saying no way Brandon Saling would be back.

Funny how Dana hasn't uttered a single word about Lloyd.

Again, if this were a white coach it would be easier for media and Dana to go after him.

White guilt has made it so everyone treads lightly lest they get branded racist or called on the carpet by Jesse Jackson on the cable news.

Jesse Jackson doesn't gaf about MMA or some slighty rich marginal BJJ coach fringe sports my man its irrelevant to guys like him and black people for the most part don't give three shits about MMA/BJJ, and Sharpton now if some shit like this went down over PBF's team then it would be hell to pay... Phone Post

1/17/13 12:20 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Zed Wayne Zed 69 Member Since: 10/20/11 Posts: 1126	Yup. You wanna treat some poor girl who trusted you as a piece of meat? You deserve great shame, and you're gonna get that shame from me, you asshole. You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 12:52 PM

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Zizzu

Member Since: 4/29/09
Posts: 141

Winston Wolf -
Humphrey - It's silly to even suggest this. It's amazing how this vigilante shit takes over.

The guy was not convicted of rape, and this issue now has nothing to do with him.

So what POSSIBLE grounds are there? 'You didn't do the right thing'? So then who becomes the morality police?

It's a slippery slope, but really not a good idea regardless of how you look at it.

she actually said he did rape her and I beleive her not limp dick wanna be

This x 1000!

I think it is pretty obvious that he did rape her and just used the limp dick lie to skate by.

I don't think he is a wanna be rapist. I think he is a rapist.

1/17/13 1:03 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Fabes 81 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 44303 Mixed Martial Arts LLC, Moderator	It's hard to ban someone without a valid legal reason I would think. You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 1:40 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
wiggum 83 Member Since: 2/17/03 Posts: 3386	Fabes - It's hard to ban someone without a valid legal reason I would think. Is it, Fabes? He banned Miguel Torres for offensive comments. No crime. Surely watching a gang rape and desiring to participate in it is worse? You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 1:50 PM

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INDK 36 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 7/16/08
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Humphrey - It's silly to even suggest this. It's amazing how this vigilante shit takes over.

The guy was not convicted of rape, and this issue now has nothing to do with him.

So what POSSIBLE grounds are there? 'You didn't do the right thing'? So then who becomes the morality police?

It's a slippery slope, but really not a good idea regardless of how you look at it.

So with your logical your saying you would not be at any fault for not physically trying to stop the rape of a women? You are a piece of shit. Phone Post

1/17/13 1:50 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
BJ bashed into McDs mincemeat 2 Member Since: 9/26/08 Posts: 4615	They can ban who ever the fuck they want ( example . Exclusion of selected sponsors and cornermen at their discretion) If Dana or Lorenzo ( who I heard really hates rapers) decide he is out , they bye bye flaccid master You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 1:58 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
wiggum 83 Member Since: 2/17/03 Posts: 3387	BJ bashed into McDs mincemeat - They can ban who ever the fuck they want ( example . Exclusion of selected sponsors and cornermen at their discretion) If Dana or Lorenzo ( who I heard really hates rapers) decide he is out , they bye bye flaccid master Not sure how anyone can disagree with this. You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 2:16 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
smiter Member Since: 7/8/10 Posts: 592	Frank Shamrock cornered Ebersole in UFC last year and people still think this is danas call? You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 3:10 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
chawkins 17 Edited: 01/17/13 3:17 PM Member Since: 12/14/05 Posts: 2598	I'm not sure it's up to UFC. Isn't it up to whichever athletic commission gave Lloyd a cornerman license? Wouldn't that AC have to pull his license? Are promoters like the UFC required to honor valid licenses? You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 3:14 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Heel Hooker Member Since: 10/16/12 Posts: 498	Nick was not convicted of Pot, he was denied a license to corner because he was under suspsension. You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 3:15 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
OnlyTheStrongSurvive 255 Member Since: 1/29/11 Posts: 10305	wiggum - Fabes - It's hard to ban someone without a valid legal reason I would think. Is it, Fabes? He banned Miguel Torres for offensive comments. No crime. Surely watching a gang rape and desiring to participate in it is worse? Miguel Torres was his employee. Dana fired him. It's different when you are telling your fighters they can't hire someone You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 3:51 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
Badmonkey Member Since: 6/15/07 Posts: 7863	TTT You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 5:50 PM

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BJ bashed into McDs mincemeat 2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 9/26/08
Posts: 4619

OnlyTheStrongSurvive -
wiggum -
Fabes - It's hard to ban someone without a valid legal reason I would think.

Is it, Fabes?

He banned Miguel Torres for offensive comments. No crime.

Surely watching a gang rape and desiring to participate in it is worse?
Miguel Torres was his employee. Dana fired him. It's different when you are telling your fighters they can't hire someone

Like when you tell them what sponsors they can and can't wear at your live televised shows?

UFC makes the rules Phone Post

1/17/13 6:29 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
OldManMinerva Member Since: 8/24/09 Posts: 11921	UG KKK brigade out in numbers I see You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 6:50 PM	Ignore \| Quote \| Edit \| Warn Admin \| Vote Down \| Vote Up \| Delete Post
BUFFGEO Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 12235	Didn't They Fire Eddie Bravo because he wanted to corner Soteropolis like once!? I wouldnt put anything past Dana. If He thinks this situation would cost him 1 cent he'll step in you can count on it You have ignored this user.

1/17/13 7:02 PM

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wiggum 83 The total sum of your votes up and votes down

Member Since: 2/17/03
Posts: 3388

OnlyTheStrongSurvive -
wiggum -
Fabes - It's hard to ban someone without a valid legal reason I would think.

Is it, Fabes?

He banned Miguel Torres for offensive comments. No crime.

Surely watching a gang rape and desiring to participate in it is worse?
Miguel Torres was his employee. Dana fired him. It's different when you are telling your fighters they can't hire someone

It's their event. They can choose not to let a scumbag at their event.

Honestly - this is fucking ridiculous. The dude watched a girl get gang raped.

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