UnderGround Forum >> Keith Kizer: I welcome honest criticism

Kirik - 

Keith is an awesome regulator. And he likes honest criticism. What is better than that?

I know he gets a lot of guff on the UG. This will be a good test for you guys.

If you post "I hate hiM hE sUCkZ," that is not honest criticism. If you have something honest to say, respectfully, that is worth saying, he is probably interested.

The guy is the head of an AC whose judges are routinely ridiculed and loathed by MMA and boxing promoters, along with the journalists and fans. From shady decisions to blatantly ignorant decisions. And their boss does absolutely nothing to improve the situation, and these judges continue to be the judges at one high profile event after another.

What has Kizer done in response to the CONSTANT and vehement criticism of the state of judging?

Absolutely nothing. 

In fact, iirc, when it was suggested that the AC institute some kind of training program so these idiots can actually understand the sport they are judging, his response was something like "lol that's not my job, they can train if they want".

orcus - 

The guy is the head of an AC whose judges are routinely ridiculed and loathed by MMA and boxing promoters, along with the journalists and fans. From shady decisions to blatantly ignorant decisions. And their boss does absolutely nothing to improve the situation, and these judges continue to be the judges at one high profile event after another.

What has Kizer done in response to the CONSTANT and vehement criticism of the state of judging?

Absolutely nothing. 

In fact, iirc, when it was suggested that the AC institute some kind of training program so these idiots can actually understand the sport they are judging, his response was something like "lol that's not my job, they can train if they want".

Nail on the head

double

he's heard it all, hasn't done shit, doesn't have to answer for shit.  so he'll "welcome" it, just won't do anything about it.  it's not impressive that you'd welcome bullets when you're bulletproof

orcus - 

The guy is the head of an AC whose judges are routinely ridiculed and loathed by MMA and boxing promoters, along with the journalists and fans. From shady decisions to blatantly ignorant decisions. And their boss does absolutely nothing to improve the situation, and these judges continue to be the judges at one high profile event after another.

What has Kizer done in response to the CONSTANT and vehement criticism of the state of judging?

Absolutely nothing. 

In fact, iirc, when it was suggested that the AC institute some kind of training program so these idiots can actually understand the sport they are judging, his response was something like "lol that's not my job, they can train if they want".

Lahzerous - 

Arecsa - The man is incompetent, he hasn't done one good thing for MMA. We still get the same boxing fossils judging fights and fucking it up because they are either corrupt or simply have no clue. Please Keith, explain to me the 30-27 for Melvin at UFC 155. Explain how that can possible happen still. The whole system needs a complete overhaul.

The board does that not him...... As far as him doing nothing I'm pretty sure it's the random test he implemented lately that busted Reem.

The one thing Keith really needs to do IMHO is to review the judging decisions by Adeladye Byrd and Cecil Peoples.  These two have cost far too many fighters money and jobs.

Authority Figure - 

THOUGHTS FOR KIZER

Sometimes commissioners seem to lack some of the training, professionalism and analytical skills required for a position of this stature. 

• Are commissioners appointed, as in the case of most other commissions?
• What are their qualifications? Are any of these related to regulatory experience in other fields? Are any of these related to sports, as participant? Coach? Referee?

There seems to be a great disparity in how athletes are treated when they are caught using banned substances. In fact, the bigger the draw, the bigger the name, the more money involved, the less likely the athlete will get a severe reprimand. 

• There is a growing concern about the integrity of the commission. Are you worried?
• Do you see a part of your as maintaining or restoring public faith and trust in the commission?

Nick Diaz, let him bang bro.

• In seems that both sides have dug their heels in. I can't see any benefit to a sports commission prolonging the punishment of a fighter on marjiuana. Especially one that holds a marijuana medical use card. It seems like a gross misuse of time, funds and that fighters shelf life. What's the precedent? That is, name another sport or commission that would go to these lengths to make a statement about how marijuana use? Or just let 'em bang, bro.

You held a special seminar for the Pac vs Marquez 4 judges. Yes I get that someone threatened you who has a a lot of money and sway but please stop being a complicit crook and hold one for MMA judges.

Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 

Voodoo -  I honestly do not know how he does his job, I could not take the criticism that he handles on a regular basis. I don't always agree with all his decisions, but I respect him a lot.

i deal with various state agencies all the time so i will tell u how he keeps his job.  virtually every one working in state agencies is either lazy, incompetent or corrupt or a combination of two or all of those things. beoad generalization but its mostly true.   basically they all have jobs tney know they should not have.  that ultimately leads to the status quo. noone wants to rock the boat and screw up what they have. for example what if he hired a new judge and that judge was actually intelligent and proactive and ambitious and started pointing out whats wrong and started advocating change.  noone else in the agency wants that.  they just want people around who have the same level of sloth and ineptitude that will turn a blind eye to each other.  and if they fire any judge its possible that the judge in retribution will go public with criticisms about the agency.  cant have that.

Aren't you a case worker? 

I have a lot of respect for social work, but let's be honest, you dunno what the hell Kizer is going through, what he does, what he faces on a daily basis. I work state department heads directly. I take meetings in D.C. with administrators. I've worked directly with 3 state commissions (none related to sports) and even I wouldn't assume I know what's going on.

That said, I would gain a lot of respect for Kizer if he dropped in and answered even two questions posed by any of us. 

Samjackson - 

Authority Figure - 

THOUGHTS FOR KIZER

Sometimes commissioners seem to lack some of the training, professionalism and analytical skills required for a position of this stature. 

• Are commissioners appointed, as in the case of most other commissions?
• What are their qualifications? Are any of these related to regulatory experience in other fields? Are any of these related to sports, as participant? Coach? Referee?

There seems to be a great disparity in how athletes are treated when they are caught using banned substances. In fact, the bigger the draw, the bigger the name, the more money involved, the less likely the athlete will get a severe reprimand. 

• There is a growing concern about the integrity of the commission. Are you worried?
• Do you see a part of your as maintaining or restoring public faith and trust in the commission?

Nick Diaz, let him bang bro.

• In seems that both sides have dug their heels in. I can't see any benefit to a sports commission prolonging the punishment of a fighter on marjiuana. Especially one that holds a marijuana medical use card. It seems like a gross misuse of time, funds and that fighters shelf life. What's the precedent? That is, name another sport or commission that would go to these lengths to make a statement about how marijuana use? Or just let 'em bang, bro.

Quoting this for 2 reasons.
1) It brings up some very valid points, and needs to be seen.
2) The NFL was much harsher on Ricky Williams. 4 game suspension, and a 650k fine on his second offense (second for Diaz I also believe). You said name one... Williams "retired" to avoid penalty on his third, and on his fourth he was suspended for a whole season losing millions. So I guess Nick should have been fined 650k, and forced to sit out for the length of 4 potential fights (use the Jon Jones schedule for fastest return). Just being devil's advocate here since you asked.

You provided an excellent example. I appreciate it. I would like to hear Kizer share his context. I don't see how this thing with Nick really changes anything. He's got a medical use card. He carries himself in a way that would "suggest" that using marijuana would probably be a good thing. I'm no doctor, but hey, I'd believe him. I'd also be tempted to believe that he had good reason to not put it on his form, since he'd been suspended before. 

The commission seems to lack any empathy for his obvious "condition" - whether we label it social anxiety or AHDD. Or both. They even seemed to lack a willingness to truly understand and learn when a medical expert and an attorney attempted to explain his situation.

So he smokes in social settings. Hmm. Can person prescribed cough medicine, take it at the Thanksgiving table w/o negating the real purpose? Oh, well he got a little buzzed, he giggled. It made dinner pass time more quickly. So yeah, maybe it does negate his perscription. That's nonsensical. 

Now, true social use - no card, no condition - just using to be using, which he had done before and accidently discovered like many - that it helped - is a little different. But the commission sounded like the guys that probably instituted prohibition. Rigid. Zealous. Hardened. 

Now again, your example is good. But it's not quite apples to apples. Or did the NFL suspend and fine a player that was smoking marijuana at the advice of a doctor? 

greenseed - does anyone know if the Nsac tests every fighter for EPO? I would think with the endurance required for mma it might be widely used

I'd like to see a full list of what they test for. I've never even checked to see if they have a website.

Authority Figure - 

Samjackson - 

Authority Figure - 

THOUGHTS FOR KIZER

Sometimes commissioners seem to lack some of the training, professionalism and analytical skills required for a position of this stature. 

• Are commissioners appointed, as in the case of most other commissions?
• What are their qualifications? Are any of these related to regulatory experience in other fields? Are any of these related to sports, as participant? Coach? Referee?

There seems to be a great disparity in how athletes are treated when they are caught using banned substances. In fact, the bigger the draw, the bigger the name, the more money involved, the less likely the athlete will get a severe reprimand. 

• There is a growing concern about the integrity of the commission. Are you worried?
• Do you see a part of your as maintaining or restoring public faith and trust in the commission?

Nick Diaz, let him bang bro.

• In seems that both sides have dug their heels in. I can't see any benefit to a sports commission prolonging the punishment of a fighter on marjiuana. Especially one that holds a marijuana medical use card. It seems like a gross misuse of time, funds and that fighters shelf life. What's the precedent? That is, name another sport or commission that would go to these lengths to make a statement about how marijuana use? Or just let 'em bang, bro.

Quoting this for 2 reasons.
1) It brings up some very valid points, and needs to be seen.
2) The NFL was much harsher on Ricky Williams. 4 game suspension, and a 650k fine on his second offense (second for Diaz I also believe). You said name one... Williams "retired" to avoid penalty on his third, and on his fourth he was suspended for a whole season losing millions. So I guess Nick should have been fined 650k, and forced to sit out for the length of 4 potential fights (use the Jon Jones schedule for fastest return). Just being devil's advocate here since you asked.

You provided an excellent example. I appreciate it. I would like to hear Kizer share his context. I don't see how this thing with Nick really changes anything. He's got a medical use card. He carries himself in a way that would "suggest" that using marijuana would probably be a good thing. I'm no doctor, but hey, I'd believe him. I'd also be tempted to believe that he had good reason to not put it on his form, since he'd been suspended before. 

The commission seems to lack any empathy for his obvious "condition" - whether we label it social anxiety or AHDD. Or both. They even seemed to lack a willingness to truly understand and learn when a medical expert and an attorney attempted to explain his situation.

So he smokes in social settings. Hmm. Can person prescribed cough medicine, take it at the Thanksgiving table w/o negating the real purpose? Oh, well he got a little buzzed, he giggled. It made dinner pass time more quickly. So yeah, maybe it does negate his perscription. That's nonsensical. 

Now, true social use - no card, no condition - just using to be using, which he had done before and accidently discovered like many - that it helped - is a little different. But the commission sounded like the guys that probably instituted prohibition. Rigid. Zealous. Hardened. 

 

Now again, your example is good. But it's not quite apples to apples. Or did the NFL suspend and fine a player that was smoking marijuana at the advice of a doctor? 

MrNiceguy66 - PEDs are legal with prescription. Why not marijuana?

Macedawgg - 

Gave you the sympathy vote up Cindy--that's ABSURD

LOL!!! If Kirik can troll so can I=)

Cindy

Samjackson - 

Authority Figure - 

Samjackson - 

Authority Figure - 

THOUGHTS FOR KIZER

Sometimes commissioners seem to lack some of the training, professionalism and analytical skills required for a position of this stature. 

• Are commissioners appointed, as in the case of most other commissions?
• What are their qualifications? Are any of these related to regulatory experience in other fields? Are any of these related to sports, as participant? Coach? Referee?

There seems to be a great disparity in how athletes are treated when they are caught using banned substances. In fact, the bigger the draw, the bigger the name, the more money involved, the less likely the athlete will get a severe reprimand. 

• There is a growing concern about the integrity of the commission. Are you worried?
• Do you see a part of your as maintaining or restoring public faith and trust in the commission?

Nick Diaz, let him bang bro.

• In seems that both sides have dug their heels in. I can't see any benefit to a sports commission prolonging the punishment of a fighter on marjiuana. Especially one that holds a marijuana medical use card. It seems like a gross misuse of time, funds and that fighters shelf life. What's the precedent? That is, name another sport or commission that would go to these lengths to make a statement about how marijuana use? Or just let 'em bang, bro.

Quoting this for 2 reasons.
1) It brings up some very valid points, and needs to be seen.
2) The NFL was much harsher on Ricky Williams. 4 game suspension, and a 650k fine on his second offense (second for Diaz I also believe). You said name one... Williams "retired" to avoid penalty on his third, and on his fourth he was suspended for a whole season losing millions. So I guess Nick should have been fined 650k, and forced to sit out for the length of 4 potential fights (use the Jon Jones schedule for fastest return). Just being devil's advocate here since you asked.

You provided an excellent example. I appreciate it. I would like to hear Kizer share his context. I don't see how this thing with Nick really changes anything. He's got a medical use card. He carries himself in a way that would "suggest" that using marijuana would probably be a good thing. I'm no doctor, but hey, I'd believe him. I'd also be tempted to believe that he had good reason to not put it on his form, since he'd been suspended before. 

The commission seems to lack any empathy for his obvious "condition" - whether we label it social anxiety or AHDD. Or both. They even seemed to lack a willingness to truly understand and learn when a medical expert and an attorney attempted to explain his situation.

So he smokes in social settings. Hmm. Can person prescribed cough medicine, take it at the Thanksgiving table w/o negating the real purpose? Oh, well he got a little buzzed, he giggled. It made dinner pass time more quickly. So yeah, maybe it does negate his perscription. That's nonsensical. 

Now, true social use - no card, no condition - just using to be using, which he had done before and accidently discovered like many - that it helped - is a little different. But the commission sounded like the guys that probably instituted prohibition. Rigid. Zealous. Hardened. 

 

Now again, your example is good. But it's not quite apples to apples. Or did the NFL suspend and fine a player that was smoking marijuana at the advice of a doctor? 

There are a few problems that exist beyond where we are looking at this. It's not legal in NV to smoke, and is still federally illegal. As a state agency they tend to tow the line of what is legal in that state. Otherwise KK would lose his job, and the next one would just change it right back.

Now as to the state of the NFL regulations, and doctor exemptions they still hold that should you get busted for pot under any cause you get hit as well. Being they are a multi-state agency their drug policy is in line with the federal government as the base line. A medical exemption card gets you the same treatment as toking up without one in the eyes of the NFL. The statement of the NFL is with, or without a medical use card you will be treated equally.

You said that you work with commissions before, and so I wonder how much this is a manifestation of your overall frustrations with how they work. You know they won't do anything to risk a job especially if it goes against state law. You can be stricter than state laws in what you ask for certain things, but you cannot be less when operation within that agency.

I have problems with the way we're treating this situation with Nick. The problem is I don't think he should be a poster boy for this movement of marijuana for mental health problems. Namely because I don't get the impression he wants to be used publicly like that given his dislike of public settings already.

Beyond that I am pro-marijuana legalization, but I do understand the concern in professional sports. I think the main problem is the inability to test if they are currently under the influence reliably prior to a fight. We don't let people fight under the influence of anything because they are such a risk to themselves. When testing becomes such that we can tell general inebriation levels like that of alcohol I think we'll see the rulings change. Until that time however we have to be careful on the subject. If one kid gets badly injured right now while stoned you know the lobbyists will be all over that. So for now it needs to stay out just like popping for alcohol, vikes, or oxy.

Less about it's validity as a medical tool, and more about it's inability to be tested in levels of inebriation prior to an event.

The funny part of this whole thing is that I was reminded that testing is not mandatory in boxing. It ocurred to me that I have no idea how we arrived at this point. lol That glaring and obvious difference makes me wonder if Kizer risks anything in "cutting Nick some slack", but what do I know?

It's funny, I'm more accustomed to commissioners that are much more professional, acutely sensitive to public perception and way more inclined to bring in experts - and listen to them. In my situation, I don't work with commissions that dole out any "punishment" or provide oversight over conduct. They dole out monies or work with gov't to improve public policy, encourage legislation. And they are way more effective, even at the snail's pace that most of them work, than sports commission appear to be. But, sports is its own world. And not only do their commissioners seem less intelligent, they seem to coping with a whole 'nother world of politics. 

Sidebar: I wonder if any Mafia or ex-criminal types have ever been appointed to sports commissions?