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UnderGround Forum >> Rampage: Jon Jones' oblique kick should be banned
| 1/22/13 5:03 PM | |
torquemada
215 
Member Since: 1/15/06 Posts: 9149 |
Sort of a douche move but shouldn't be illegal. Heel hooks next? Elbows? Slippery slope, bros. 
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| 1/22/13 5:04 PM | |
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fryingarmbar
22
Member Since: 12/24/10 Posts: 779 |
Willin - Comparing the Arona slam to the below-the-knee oblique kick is daft. The slam has counters and many ways to even prevent being put in that situation. Not to mention most humans can't execute it effectively due to the brute power required. So the rules should be tailored to make sure that grapplers don't get injured? If someone doesn't want to eat that move then they can put less weight on the front leg and figure out other ways to get it to the ground (clinch). And if they can't figure that shit out, it's no different than the boxer who can't stop the takedown. You wouldn't all of a sudden call for a ban because the boxer might get injured by a slam. And I'm still waiting for a single example of a career-ending injury from this kick in MMA. |
| 1/22/13 5:20 PM | |
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Willin
94
Member Since: 4/20/11 Posts: 4042 |
fryingarmbar -Can you provide an example of any "career ending" knee injury in MMA? In reality guys get knee surgery when they are hurt utilizing modern medicine. Almost no knee injuries are immediately career ending but they certainly are career debilitating.Willin - Comparing the Arona slam to the below-the-knee oblique kick is daft. The slam has counters and many ways to even prevent being put in that situation. Not to mention most humans can't execute it effectively due to the brute power required.
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| 1/22/13 5:32 PM | |
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sacredhate
60
Member Since: 10/16/07 Posts: 14137 |
Nikem -GunnarWreckedMyAssHAOLE - just re-read the rules...this one seemed crazy to me: Fouls: "xxi. Using abusive language in fenced ring/fighting area" how do the diaz brothers not lose on pts lost to fouls alone? |
| 1/22/13 5:42 PM | |
Vote me down
Member Since: 11/30/11 Posts: 1112 |
That kick is the equivalent of the Paul Daley cheap shot on Koscheck. Intently a dirty move. |
| 1/22/13 5:50 PM | |
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nix1331
4
Member Since: 8/26/12 Posts: 21 |
fryingarmbar -Willin - Comparing the Arona slam to the below-the-knee oblique kick is daft. The slam has counters and many ways to even prevent being put in that situation. Not to mention most humans can't execute it effectively due to the brute power required. maybe not pro mma but a douche at my gym has finished several fights using it and a few guys definatly were injured....ppl keep saying its not a technique used to blow out the knee......well that really is up to the person throwing it.....i kno the guy at the gym is 100% trying to do as much damage to someones knee as possible....its not a very common move so many of the amateurs hes fighting have never even really seen it and it ruins them. and while i dont know how i feel about out right ban it definatly is an asshole move |
| 1/22/13 5:53 PM | |
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FingerorMoon
31
Member Since: 10/27/03 Posts: 9338 |
In a combat sport where the point is to turn off someones brain via continual blunt impact, its just bizarre to worry about a kick to the knee. Unless we're talking boxing.... :) Its only a dick/douche move because people aren't used to seeing it. I view that argument the same way I view non-fans who see UFC and freak about the 'cage violence' in general. Its established that one single knockout can and does cause long term damage. Its beyond arguing that long term head shots cause signficant degenration in later life. Yet of course we're not arguing head shots should be illegal. Fighters in the UFC tend to simply head hunt and their entire below the neck strategy is to traing checking angled leg kicks. The main reason Jones has success with it is that no one is used to training against it. Doing that kick can get you in a lot of trouble against someone who knows how to deal with it, especially if they are expecting it. ...although I probably just like it since that kick is one of two moves Bruce Lee based his martial arts theory around and therefore it is awesome to see some Enter the Dragon shit put to use in the cage.... :) |
| 1/22/13 5:54 PM | |
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BigTedBear
2
Member Since: 1/14/12 Posts: 64 |
As somebody who has had knee injuries it always seemed a cheap move knee injuries really suck and most guys I know have had knee injuries. You have to remember its everything bag work cardio strength training you cant do much with bad knees.
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| 1/22/13 5:59 PM | |
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circa305
6
Member Since: 4/25/12 Posts: 2045 |
I hate that fucking kick. I dont ever wanna see anyone use it in MMA. |
| 1/22/13 6:00 PM | |
Porkchop
45
Member Since: 6/26/07 Posts: 8400 |
There was a guy in my club who did that. He started doing it after he saw Anderson Silva do it for the first time. I told him that it is a dick move and not something to do to your team mates. He was always more focused on learning flashy moves than proper form and defense. Next time he did it (of course his hands weren't up) I dropped him with an overhand right and he got the message. In fighting, I understand it. But why someone would do that to their training partners is beyond me. |
| 1/22/13 6:03 PM | |
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Immaculata
39
Member Since: 12/14/03 Posts: 21789 |
I agree that the kick should be illegal. |
| 1/22/13 6:08 PM | |
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octowussy
Member Since: 8/12/10 Posts: 2417 |
Willin -octowussy -Should we allow strikes to the rear base of the skull until we see injuries as well? It's blatantly obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that a knee being hyperextended in the wrong direction is terrible for fighters and isn't worth the career risk.Willin - Comparing the Arona slam to the below-the-knee oblique kick is daft. The slam has counters and many ways to even prevent being put in that situation. Not to mention most humans can't execute it effectively due to the brute power required. The counters that I were taught don't put you at any greater risk of a takedown. They do put you in a far better position not only to not get kicked, but to counterattack as well. The shin check puts you at greater risk. We just saw a guy at least CLAIM that he was struck in the rear base of the skull on Saturday and post a picture of himself in a neck brace. So the precedent is there. Plus you don't mess around with head and spinal injuries. Even in a worst-case scenario -- like the Vera/Jardine GIF posted here -- you see Jardine continue on. And in that GIF, it actually looks like Vera hits the SIDE of the knee rather than the front. It's tough to tell from that image and I have zero desire to actually watch that fight again, so who knows. |
| 1/22/13 6:08 PM | |
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T Bag
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 5954 |
I presume that everyone who wants to ban this kick wants to do the same to thai kicks to the knee area. After all, the lateral force applied in a thai kick is more dangerous than the hyperextension resulting from this kick. Or maybe you just think this kick looks icky and have watched too many kung fu movies. |
| 1/22/13 6:09 PM | |
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knuckleballs
Member Since: 3/2/07 Posts: 2434 |
It should be outlawed.... as well as the spiking of the head that rampage did against Ninja Rua. |
| 1/22/13 6:10 PM | |
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T Bag
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 5955 |
BTW someone should post a gif of the kick that Rampage complained of to the ref (it's in the JBJ highlight video posted by CRE). You'll see that the kick lands a full 3 inches above the knee regardless. |
| 1/22/13 6:38 PM | |
HandyDarsh
211
Member Since: 11/30/11 Posts: 7184 |
superCalo - Slamming guys on their head should be banned too cause that can really really hurt. hahah BUT HES GOOD AT THOSE |
| 1/22/13 6:39 PM | |
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Chaelismyhero
Member Since: 12/30/12 Posts: 215 |
I think its a bullshit move tbh |
| 1/22/13 6:41 PM | |
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andyman011
Member Since: 12/7/11 Posts: 828 |
knuckleballs - It should be outlawed.... as well as the spiking of the head that rampage did against Ninja Rua.Spiking is outlawed unless they are being held in a sub. If you are held by an armbar and go to spike someone you can do it because they have to be intelligent enough to let go, they got themselves into it
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| 1/22/13 6:42 PM | |
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NeoSpartan
183
Member Since: 3/9/09 Posts: 10263 |
If the oblique kick is wrong, I don't wanna be right - Me & Mr. Jones |
| 1/22/13 6:51 PM | |
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biva
Member Since: 6/14/11 Posts: 543 |
kawz1 - Ban oblique kicks to the knees. Ban foot stomps.So, you're concerned for someone's knee getting bruised for a bit, but not about them getting lifelong permanent brain damage? 
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| 1/22/13 7:00 PM | |
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Severnsmustache
3188
Member Since: 3/10/05 Posts: 8307 |
It's a fight.. I've met Rampage on several occasions and he has been nothing but a dismissive asshole to me.
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| 1/22/13 7:17 PM | |
MdGeist
Member Since: 6/10/12 Posts: 1373 |
tbi0904 -Billytk - Have to agree with Rampage here that is a dirty kick (which MOST honorable fighters don't use) and is Way more dangerous then a lot of the strikes that are banned There isn't an epidemic of blown out knees because under most Savate rules, you can't deliver a chase kick to the knee joint. Under some rule sets, you are forbidden from directing any kind of kick from the knee down. Your right about the kick not being intended to damage the opponent. The chase kick is primarily intended to block a kick or to prevent your opponent from lifting his leg to deliver a kick because you are forbidden from blocking a kick with your shin or knee in Savate. I'm not sure if kicks to the knee joint in MMA should be banned in more states but I would understand if they didn't want to allow them. I think the California and Quebec athletic comm. are the only ones to ban that kicks, but the rule isn't enforced because most refs. don't know or don't remember during the fight. |
| 1/22/13 7:52 PM | |
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Kings21
5
Member Since: 7/31/09 Posts: 2109 |
Didnt read the whole thread but goddamn, how is Rampage one to talk about shots hitting the back of the head when he made millions of people think they watched someone die when he slammed Arona on his head. Rampage complaining about shit is starting to turn into a weird version of a sitcom. Every time I see him complain about something new I expect some stupid song to start playing followed by "Thats Rampage! What will he complain about next?!" doo dee doo dee doo. |
| 1/22/13 8:07 PM | |
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dahosse
23
Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 9077 |
Fuck off. This is martial arts 101. If you don't want to get caught like that, quit plodding forward flat-footed with a bunch of weight on your front leg. Countering the oblique kick is literally no more difficult than checking a roundhouse to the leg. Quit looking your opponent in the eyes, figure out where you need to look to encompass his whole frame, and react to the strikes being thrown against you. This is my number 1 problem with athletes taking over the sport- many of them are incredible specimens with incredible physical skill and only a very rudimentary understanding of actual fighting. Try to catch a skilled fighter like Martin kampmann with an oblique kick and watch him change his angle and drill you in the face. Quit trying to be faster and stronger than your opponent, and try being an actual better fighter for 2 seconds.
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| 1/22/13 8:08 PM | |
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andyman011
Member Since: 12/7/11 Posts: 836 |
Kings21 - Didnt read the whole thread but goddamn, how is Rampage one to talk about shots hitting the back of the head when he made millions of people think they watched someone die when he slammed Arona on his head.Everyone acts like its entirely rampage fault. He knew rampage loves to slam people, why would you hold onto a triangle and not let go when you're hoisted above pages head. Look at struve he let go before being slammed
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