OtherGround Forum >> 10 Pro-Gun Myths: Shot Down

paw - 

Tidbits - http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check


FACTS, not opinion.

how long before the source is attacked?

The source won't have to be attacked, as some of their "facts" are very shady.  To take just one example,

Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?

Japan isn't a good example as gun ownership is extremely restricted in Japan.  "In Japan, civilians are not allowed to possess handguns, hunting guns without specific approval⁵, military rifles, machine guns, any gunpowder charged firearm, certain air guns²⁶ and imitation firearms^38"

Looks like a strawman to me.

 

Basically, LaPierre is asserting that violent video games can increase violence.  Is that true?  I wouldn't doubt it.   A quick search showes that violent video game use increases aggression (http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2000/04/video-games.aspx), so actual violence seems possible to this layperson.  The degree to which violent video games casue violence (and what constitutes a "violent" video game and such) I leave to those familiar with that field of study.

If Japan isn't a good example, then what about UK, Canada, Europe, Australia, Korea and all the other countries that play violent video games?  

New Leaf 1.0 -

Domingo - 

New Leaf 1.0 - The source should be attacked, just like you would attack it if the source was known to provide dishonest and biased information the other direction.

Anyone who intentionally reads Fox/Huffington/Mother Jones has no place in a real conversation about issues. Those who intentionally seek misinformation should be ignored.

BTW - there are plenty of "facts" that dispute the "facts" in that article.

Let me know when you can overcome the "fact" that Switzerland has the third highest rate of gun ownership in the world and one of the lowest incidents of violence around. I can produce "fact" after "fact" after "fact" to dispute your "facts." The difference being I use legitimate sources and actually fact check my facts, instead of just assuming they are true because they support what I want to be true.

I still remember you producing a list of "facts" about how much profit a bunch of big companies made and your "facts" were easily disputed by public records and you still thought they counted as "facts." I believe that list came from mother jones too.

The caveat to Switzerland’s gun ownership is that those same people have also had military service and training with said guns.

Here in the states every yonto gun owner seems to think they’re 007 just because they happen to have a gun. Buying a computer doesn't make you a hacker and buying a gun doesn't make you Chow Yun Fat.

I grew up with guns, still own them, and am a decent shooter. However I wouldn’t trust the average gun owner to shoot an armed attacker any more than a Call of Duty player. Hell, I wouldn’t trust myself either.

Gun training makes people less likely to want to kill others? that's not a caveat that has any logical relevance to intentional gun violence. At least not that I can think of?

Not sure what your personal trust in others could plausibly have to do with their right to freedom.

Sagiv Lapkin - 

LOL @ these "facts".

This. Most of it them read like propoganda and more like someones opinion.

TheAssMurderer - 

Sagiv Lapkin - 

LOL @ these "facts".

This. Most of it them read like propoganda and more like someones opinion.

The ones that have been posted here read like flat out blatant lies. 

Chief Meteorologist Brick Tamland - Switzerland is one of the wealthiest countries and has a very homogenous culture.

Hercules Rockerfeller - 

paw - 

Tidbits - http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check


FACTS, not opinion.

how long before the source is attacked?

The source won't have to be attacked, as some of their "facts" are very shady.  To take just one example,

Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?

Japan isn't a good example as gun ownership is extremely restricted in Japan.  "In Japan, civilians are not allowed to possess handguns, hunting guns without specific approval⁵, military rifles, machine guns, any gunpowder charged firearm, certain air guns²⁶ and imitation firearms^38"

Looks like a strawman to me.

 

Basically, LaPierre is asserting that violent video games can increase violence.  Is that true?  I wouldn't doubt it.   A quick search showes that violent video game use increases aggression (http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2000/04/video-games.aspx), so actual violence seems possible to this layperson.  The degree to which violent video games casue violence (and what constitutes a "violent" video game and such) I leave to those familiar with that field of study.

If Japan isn't a good example, then what about UK, Canada, Europe, Australia, Korea and all the other countries that play violent video games?  

They might not be better examples.  Unless I'm mistaken, the UK has very restrictive gun ownership.  The others I'm not sure of.  In any case, the assertion is : violent video games cause violence

To refute it, one would have to provide evidence that violent video games do not cause violence.  (Honestly, I believe there are a number of studies that do show that violent video games do cause violence and the issue would be "to what degree" and "how significant is the effect".  And that's about as far as I can take it, being a layperson.  FWIW, I vaguely recall similar studies showing a link between violent tv programs and movies and violent behavior as well).

Shit article is shit.

Chief Meteorologist Brick Tamland - 

Chief Meteorologist Brick Tamland - Switzerland is one of the wealthiest countries and has a very homogenous culture.

I didn't finish my thoughts here lol.

If you look at wealthy areas in the US, regardless of gun laws and ownership, the murder rate is low.

If you look at poor areas in the US, regardless of gun laws and ownership, the murder rate is high.

JolietJake - Myth #4-Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0 FALSE

Pearl Mississippi, 1997, Joel Myrick, assistant Prinicipal at Pearl High School, stopped a 16 year student who had killed his ex-girlfriend and her friend and wounded 7 others before being confronted by Myrick, who ran to his truck, grabbed his gun and commenced to hunt him down. The shooter was on his way to the Pearl Middle School to murder some more kids when Myrick stopped him.

December 2008, Colorado Springs, Jeanne Assam, church member who was providing security at her church during service, shot a killed a man who had entered the church and began shooting people. Hmm, that was only 5 years ago and there are more.

Pretty much makes shit of all the other 'facts' presented in that rag you call a fact checker. I wonder where they got their 'facts', the Brady Center???

dangerboy12 - Fact:

White guys love guns more than anyone else. You can't change our minds with your "facts." It's in our blood.

dabigchet - from the wiki articles:

The school's assistant principal, Joel Myrick, retrieved a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol from his truck and, spotting him near the parking lot, shouted for Woodham to stop. Woodham instead got into his mother's car and tried to escape. Myrick, a U.S. Army Reserve commander, detained Woodham until authorities arrived.[8][9]

On Sunday, December 9, 2007, at about 1 p.m. Murray, armed with a semi-automatic rifle and two pistols, entered the foyer of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs and fatally shot two and wounded three others before himself being shot and wounded by Jeanne Assam, a former sworn Minneapolis police officer and a church member acting as security. Murray then took his own life.[5][6]

the mother jones article is correct about the first one, possibly technically incorrect about the second one.

The mother jones article is lying about both of them.  The article claims no mass shootings have been stopped by armed citizens.  You yourself just posted two.  Good job discrediting the article you're trying to claim is accurate.  lmao

3 Sided Square - 

JolietJake - Myth #4-Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0 FALSE

Pearl Mississippi, 1997, Joel Myrick, assistant Prinicipal at Pearl High School, stopped a 16 year student who had killed his ex-girlfriend and her friend and wounded 7 others before being confronted by Myrick, who ran to his truck, grabbed his gun and commenced to hunt him down. The shooter was on his way to the Pearl Middle School to murder some more kids when Myrick stopped him.

December 2008, Colorado Springs, Jeanne Assam, church member who was providing security at her church during service, shot a killed a man who had entered the church and began shooting people. Hmm, that was only 5 years ago and there are more.

Pretty much makes shit of all the other 'facts' presented in that rag you call a fact checker. I wonder where they got their 'facts', the Brady Center???

Bro the shooter got off rounds therefore the mass shooting wasn't prevented. And if he would have shot the guy before he fired it wasn't going to be a mass shooting it was just going to be a regular shooting. John Wayne's never stop mass shootings bro.