OtherGround Forum >> 10 Pro-Gun Myths: Shot Down

Sagiv Lapkin - 

dabigchet - " Why do you think there is such intensity among people who want to ban assault weapons? (this isn't a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely asking your opinion"

because of their involvement in mass shootings. they appear to be good for that sort of thing.

But when looking at gun violence in general, they make up a tiny fraction of the weapons that are used. The overwhelming majority are handguns. Why focus on the smaller and more insignificant part of "the problem"?

dabigchet - " Why do you think there is such intensity among people who want to ban assault weapons? (this isn't a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely asking your opinion"

because of their involvement in mass shootings. they appear to be good for that sort of thing.

They are no better for it that their semi-automatic counterparts that are explicitly exempted, and they are not the main choice of mass shooters.  As I wrote before in another thread:

Seems to me most of the guns the list covers guns used in only a small fraction of crimes, including mass shootings, and the guns most often used are not listed.  

I just looked at the list of mass shootings in the US here (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1337221/a-timeline-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us-since-columbine/?mobile=nc) and looked up the events on wikipedia, and almost all of them involved handguns only. And not handguns that shoot rifle ammo, like all of the ones on that list.  

The exceptions are:
Adam Lanza (AR-15),
Jacob Tyler Roberts (AR-15),
Eduardo Sencion (Norinco Mak 90 - which is not on the list),
Robert Stewart (pistols and 12 ga. pump shotgun - not on the list),
Steven Kazmierczak (pistols and semi-auto shotgun - not on the list),
Robert Hawkins (AK-47),
Sulejman Talovi? (pump shotgun and pistols),
Kyle Aaron Huff (pistols and pump shotgun),
Jeffrey Weise (pistols and pump shotgun),
Doug Williams (pump shotgun and Ruger mini-14),
Michael "Mucko" McDermott (AK-47, shotgun, pistol),
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Hi point carbine, pump shotgun)

So I have to wonder what would be accomplished by banning those guns?  It seems pretty clear inexpensive handguns and shotguns are used far more in mass shootings than semi-auto rifles.  

dabigchet - about twice as many people died in mass shootings in 2012 than what typically die from lightning strikes in a year.

i don't believe this thread is specifically about mass shootings though. it is about gun myths. i am most interested in the defense vs danger ratio. i believe the data is clear that overall owning a gun = less safety. that doesn't make any judgment about AR-15s or tobacco deaths or the second amendment or anything else, although i have opinions about all of those.

it just means that owning a gun is more dangerous to your household than not owning one. pretty interesting if you ask me.

dabigchet - 

BigRyana - 

12SixElbow - 

dabigchet - "FACT: in 2012, in Portland a shooter was stopped because a mall shopper drew on him (Clackamas town center shooting)."

lol. that shooter was stopped BY HIS OWN BULLET. was stopped. you have got to be kidding me...what a series of facts in this here thread.

Sort of...

A shopper drew on him and he shot himself.

Would he have stopped shooting and randomly killed himself right when he started shooting up the mall if that hadn't happened? Doubtful.

 

Correct. I live within a few minutes of the mall this happened at and talked to several people that were there when this happened. Essentially, the CCW drew on the shooter, CCW saw people behind shooter, held off shooting. Shooter saw CCW, quickly broke line of sight and shot himself in head. This is the account of events as I heard them from witnesses anyway. If CCW holder was not there, I have no doubt the shooter would have continued shooting.

And this article is a joke. It shows how some people fail to live in reality with the rest of us. a FACT is something that is provable beyond any ability to dispute. The creator of the article doesn't seem to understand that.

i would be interested to see an article where anyone but the CCW confirms that the shooter saw him and reacted. please post if you have one.

BigRyana's account is misleading IMO. There's a 30 minute interview with the CCW (Nick Meli) somewhere but I couldn't find it. In summary:

Meli says he took aim at the shooter (who was having problems with his AR) but did not fire for fear of hitting bystanders. Seeing that he was outgunned (AR vs pistol) Meli then went into a nearby store. Meli provided direction to people in the store and when the police arrived he told them where the shooter went. The shooter took his own life. 

419 - You can claim Meli didn't stop the shooter, but the Oregon incident didn't become a mass shooting, as defined by the FBI. Contrary to anti-gun rhetoric, Meli avoided harming any bystanders and the police didn't think he was the perp.

Likewise, Myrick gets credit for saving lives without firing a shot.

dabigchet - yabadaba nails it. absolutely i would want to be armed if i ever have the misfortune to be in such a situation. i am glad that the principal and the oregon guy had their guns and had the presence of mind to draw them responsibly. however it is painfully obvious that pro-gun people take leeway with the facts of those cases to help draw the conclusion that those guns saved lives. in reality, the facts are not so clear.

The facts are crystal clear to anyone who doesn't have a blatant anti-gun agenda.