UnderGround Forum >> Is TRT unjust, or worse, to Michael Bisping?

gamer -

Lazer MMA - Sure Shogun came right in with a lead uppercut VS Hendo and was dropped in the first minute because of TRT and an injury. No wait...

Jack Slack explained you can't use the that technique (lead upper cut) against a fighter as good as Hendo, and again and again how technique lead to him getting beat to the punch.

Some of us knew and said this from the start.

TRT infused power shots are a hell of a thing

Shogun's injury riddled camp hurt his ability to prepare for Hendo

That makes a huge difference

While Hendo was able to train like a 21 year old for Shogun due to TRT

And yes that is and was a big unfair advantage to have

But yes,

Shogun did get tagged leading with the uppercut.

Again I think it also in part has to do with Shogun having a shitty camp, being injured, and as a result just rushing Hendo etc

But still, Hendo got him and made him pay for that mistake

I just dont see Shogun making that same mistake again

All though when fighting Hendo, you always have to be careful!

I really do feel Shogun took him lightly

Shogun has had 5 rounds of action to get familiar with Hendo's style, so I dont see Shogun making the same mistakes again etc


Also keep in mind how Shogun dropped Hendo in the first round too

Shogun also knocked Hendo out on his feet in the fourth round with that big uppercut. Chael Sonnen said so and belives so. Sonnen said Shogun had Hendo out on his feet with that uppercut


Shogun was beaten up, but he definenly had some of his own big moments and beat Hendo up too.

They both beat each other up!

I know you love Hendo, and I like Hendo a lot too! Hendo and Shogun are legends. They put on a war for the ages!

But I have no doubts about it

despite the unfair advantages, despite the fact Shogun was injuried, Shogun still managed to take a juiced up Hendo to a draw (according to a vast majority of fans)

There is no doubt in my mind that any version of Shogun would murder a clean Hendo off of TRT

Hell, a healthy Shogun or just even a well game planned Shogun still beats TRT Hendo 3.0

I mean Shogun already managed to take that TRT Hendo 3.0 to a draw despite being injuried and despite the ufair advantages, so you can only imagine how drastically different of a fight it would have been or would be if Shogun was/is healthy and or had/has a good gameplan for Hendo etc. Shogun simply destroys Hendo in that case

How about people stop whining for Bisping. And yes thats what it is, whining. Focus on what you do and what your opponent does wont matter, illegal or not. Steroids don't make someone a more skilled fighter. 

See Anderson Silva (I realize not all these were when he fought them but the history of drug use is there):

Chris Leben, Failed tests multiple times: W, KO

Nate Marquardt, failed PED test, TRT user: W, TKO

Dan Henderson, TRT user: W, Sub

Vitor Belfort, Failed multiple tests, TRT user: W, KO

Chael Sonnen, Failed PED test for one fight, TRT user: W, Sub W, TKO

James Irvin, Failed PED for that fight test: W, KO

Forrest Griffin, Failed drug test for that fight: W, KO

Stephan Bonnar, Failed PED test for that fight and another: W, TKO

edited to add other Sonnen fight

Just because Bisping isn't on TRT doesn't mean Bisping has been clean his whole career... give it a rest already. And just because he hasn't tested positive doesn't mean he isn't using.

JkdSam - 

Gooner H Smith - 

How about people stop whining for Bisping. And yes thats what it is, whining. Focus on what you do and what your opponent does wont matter, illegal or not. Steroids don't make someone a more skilled fighter. 

See Anderson Silva (I realize not all these were when he fought them but the history of drug use is there):

Chris Leben, Failed tests multiple times: W, KO

Nate Marquardt, failed PED test, TRT user: W, TKO

Dan Henderson, TRT user: W, Sub

Vitor Belfort, Failed multiple tests, TRT user: W, KO

Chael Sonnen, Failed PED test for one fight, TRT user: W, Sub W, TKO

James Irvin, Failed PED for that fight test: W, KO

Forrest Griffin, Failed drug test for that fight: W, KO

Stephan Bonnar, Failed PED test for that fight and another: W, TKO

 

edited to add other Sonnen fight

You debunked your whole post in your third sentence. Go back and reread it. Future drug abuse does not affect present day performance. But, even so, to use the greatest fighter of all time as your example of "clean" guys beating juiced fighters is kind of ridiculous because it's saying if the greatest of all time can do it, everyone can, and that's just not true of anything Anderson does. He is an enigma at every part of his skill set.

Who is to say they were clean at the point in time that they fought Anderson if they had failed before or after? It calls their entire career into question doesn't it? Especially when they fought earlier on and the drug testing wasn't as stringent. Yes, Anderson is the GOAT, but when Bisping himself states he can beat Anderson, I think its fair to hold him to the same standard. You don't see anyone talking about how many dudes Anderson has fought that have tested positive because he fucked them all up anyway. If you enter the sport with the mindset that everyone is playing fair, you're an idiot. It would be more prudent to assume everyone you're fighting is roided and focus on making yourself better so it doesn't matter. There is a huge problem with PED's in every sport today, and nothing is being done about it, so as an athlete you have to approach it in your own way.

JkdSam - 

Lazer MMA - 

Lazer MMA - 

80 percent of the UFC per multiple fighters (the last on being Stun Gun) are blasting inbetween fights with the real juice. Let's do the 100th thread on TRT though.

Sorry for repost, but so fuckin this!

Need to add though where TF is proof of TRT prowess? Page just lost. Hendo was 1-2 in his first three on TRT. Belfort won a fight with a kick he had already showed Bisping and Bisping still lacked the skill to stop (or moving into Hendo's strong hand) .

Time and again it's technique that wins fights, not TRT PERIOD.

Now my post above that I quoted is something to think about.

Technique huh? Techniques that require speed? Such as punches and kicks? Those kind of techniques? If you're talking grappling, then that's a whole other story, but if you're trying to say that increased muscle strength, endurance, and durability aren't a major factor in punches and kicks landing, then just please stop posting. Please?

Jmunzies - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp3DrT4nmz8

Here is the interview

he talks about bisping at 27 minutes

Lazer MMA -

JkdSam - 

Lazer MMA - 

Lazer MMA - 

80 percent of the UFC per multiple fighters (the last on being Stun Gun) are blasting inbetween fights with the real juice. Let's do the 100th thread on TRT though.

Sorry for repost, but so fuckin this!

Need to add though where TF is proof of TRT prowess? Page just lost. Hendo was 1-2 in his first three on TRT. Belfort won a fight with a kick he had already showed Bisping and Bisping still lacked the skill to stop (or moving into Hendo's strong hand) .

Time and again it's technique that wins fights, not TRT PERIOD.

Now my post above that I quoted is something to think about.

Technique huh? Techniques that require speed? Such as punches and kicks? Those kind of techniques? If you're talking grappling, then that's a whole other story, but if you're trying to say that increased muscle strength, endurance, and durability aren't a major factor in punches and kicks landing, then just please stop posting. Please?

Read this it should help you. A further clarification on how LACK of good technique loses fights not that TRT wins them.

It was not TRT that enabled Belfort to land the EXACT kick that hurt Bisping the round before, it was that fact Bisping was not skilled enough to look for it again and stop it (block).

Hendo could not run all over the cage hunting Bisping without TRT? It was TRT which made Bisping keep sliding to Hendo power hand side too?

Bisping is 100 percent fail in every very big fight he ever fought in because he was not good enough to win.

Prove the virtue of TRT in win/loss records of those using it and show technique was not the issue.

DOMINANTDAN#1FAN -

Lazer MMA -

JkdSam - 

Lazer MMA - 

Lazer MMA - 

80 percent of the UFC per multiple fighters (the last on being Stun Gun) are blasting inbetween fights with the real juice. Let's do the 100th thread on TRT though.

Sorry for repost, but so fuckin this!

Need to add though where TF is proof of TRT prowess? Page just lost. Hendo was 1-2 in his first three on TRT. Belfort won a fight with a kick he had already showed Bisping and Bisping still lacked the skill to stop (or moving into Hendo's strong hand) .

Time and again it's technique that wins fights, not TRT PERIOD.

Now my post above that I quoted is something to think about.

Technique huh? Techniques that require speed? Such as punches and kicks? Those kind of techniques? If you're talking grappling, then that's a whole other story, but if you're trying to say that increased muscle strength, endurance, and durability aren't a major factor in punches and kicks landing, then just please stop posting. Please?

Read this it should help you. A further clarification on how LACK of good technique loses fights not that TRT wins them.

It was not TRT that enabled Belfort to land the EXACT kick that hurt Bisping the round before, it was that fact Bisping was not skilled enough to look for it again and stop it (block).

Hendo could not run all over the cage hunting Bisping without TRT? It was TRT which made Bisping keep sliding to Hendo power hand side too?

Bisping is 100 percent fail in every very big fight he ever fought in because he was not good enough to win.

Prove the virtue of TRT in win/loss records of those using it and show technique was not the issue.

Prove the other argument that TRT isn't the factor. You can't prove either way. What you can say is that people like Hendo probably wouldn't be able to compete at the top level without it, that's a widely hekd perception.

DeuceDroppin -

DOMINANTDAN#1FAN -

Lazer MMA -

JkdSam - 

Lazer MMA - 

Lazer MMA - 

80 percent of the UFC per multiple fighters (the last on being Stun Gun) are blasting inbetween fights with the real juice. Let's do the 100th thread on TRT though.

Sorry for repost, but so fuckin this!

Need to add though where TF is proof of TRT prowess? Page just lost. Hendo was 1-2 in his first three on TRT. Belfort won a fight with a kick he had already showed Bisping and Bisping still lacked the skill to stop (or moving into Hendo's strong hand) .

Time and again it's technique that wins fights, not TRT PERIOD.

Now my post above that I quoted is something to think about.

Technique huh? Techniques that require speed? Such as punches and kicks? Those kind of techniques? If you're talking grappling, then that's a whole other story, but if you're trying to say that increased muscle strength, endurance, and durability aren't a major factor in punches and kicks landing, then just please stop posting. Please?

Read this it should help you. A further clarification on how LACK of good technique loses fights not that TRT wins them.

It was not TRT that enabled Belfort to land the EXACT kick that hurt Bisping the round before, it was that fact Bisping was not skilled enough to look for it again and stop it (block).

Hendo could not run all over the cage hunting Bisping without TRT? It was TRT which made Bisping keep sliding to Hendo power hand side too?

Bisping is 100 percent fail in every very big fight he ever fought in because he was not good enough to win.

Prove the virtue of TRT in win/loss records of those using it and show technique was not the issue.

Prove the other argument that TRT isn't the factor. You can't prove either way. What you can say is that people like Hendo probably wouldn't be able to compete at the top level without it, that's a widely hekd perception.

You are all right but Lazer makes a much better point. At his age, NO Hendo likely could not compete at his current level without it. BUT...His current level (from an athletic standpoint) is still likely quite a bit less than what it was in his younger years. It's not putting him ahead of the curve, it's helping him to keep up with the curve.

DOMINANTDAN#1FAN - 

DeuceDroppin -

DOMINANTDAN#1FAN -

Lazer MMA -

JkdSam - 

Lazer MMA - 

Lazer MMA - 

80 percent of the UFC per multiple fighters (the last on being Stun Gun) are blasting inbetween fights with the real juice. Let's do the 100th thread on TRT though.

Sorry for repost, but so fuckin this!

Need to add though where TF is proof of TRT prowess? Page just lost. Hendo was 1-2 in his first three on TRT. Belfort won a fight with a kick he had already showed Bisping and Bisping still lacked the skill to stop (or moving into Hendo's strong hand) .

Time and again it's technique that wins fights, not TRT PERIOD.

Now my post above that I quoted is something to think about.

Technique huh? Techniques that require speed? Such as punches and kicks? Those kind of techniques? If you're talking grappling, then that's a whole other story, but if you're trying to say that increased muscle strength, endurance, and durability aren't a major factor in punches and kicks landing, then just please stop posting. Please?

Read this it should help you. A further clarification on how LACK of good technique loses fights not that TRT wins them.

It was not TRT that enabled Belfort to land the EXACT kick that hurt Bisping the round before, it was that fact Bisping was not skilled enough to look for it again and stop it (block).

Hendo could not run all over the cage hunting Bisping without TRT? It was TRT which made Bisping keep sliding to Hendo power hand side too?

Bisping is 100 percent fail in every very big fight he ever fought in because he was not good enough to win.

Prove the virtue of TRT in win/loss records of those using it and show technique was not the issue.

Prove the other argument that TRT isn't the factor. You can't prove either way. What you can say is that people like Hendo probably wouldn't be able to compete at the top level without it, that's a widely hekd perception.

You are all right but Lazer makes a much better point. At his age, NO Hendo likely could not compete at his current level without it. BUT...His current level (from an athletic standpoint) is still likely quite a bit less than what it was in his younger years. It's not putting him ahead of the curve, it's helping him to keep up with the curve.

Yes it's keeping him with the curve, but it's most likely providing him with a higher level of testosterone than the average man of his age. Hendo, as far as I'm aware, has been using TRT for a long time, so what you can probable assume is that the level of T in his body have remained at a constant for that period rather than diminishing naturally. The question is whether that is fair or not. If a TRT user is maintaining the levels of a younger man, that is obviously going to aid his recovery and his ability to train. This is an advantage not necessarily available to a healthy guy in his mid 30s for example.
Everyone is going to form their own opinion on the matter, it's just my belief that if you have such a medical issue then you shouldn't be competing in sports. I understand why people may disagree, but ailments and conditions rule people out of. jobs everyday and that's the way this one should be treated imo.

X_Rated - Damned if you do damned if you don't imo

Lazer MMA -

Lazer MMA - 

80 percent of the UFC per multiple fighters (the last on being Stun Gun) are blasting inbetween fights with the real juice. Let's do the 100th thread on TRT though.

Sorry for repost, but so fuckin this!

Need to add though where TF is proof of TRT prowess? Page just lost. Hendo was 1-2 in his first three on TRT. Belfort won a fight with a kick he had already showed Bisping and Bisping still lacked the skill to stop (or moving into Hendo's strong hand) .

Time and again it's technique that wins fights, not TRT PERIOD.

Now my post above that I quoted is something to think about.

DOMINANTDAN#1FAN -  Lazer, questioning whether other people are cheating does not validity TRT. Technique is is not 100% the reason why these fighter are winning if, as I said earlier, they wouldn't be in the octagon without the aid of TRT. The biggest question is whether someone with depleted T levels should be allowed to maintain those of a younger man and whether that's fair to people who are not replacing their T which will also be depleted but to a lesser extent.
Seriously, stop trying to pass your opinion off as fact, there's a reason why you're always in flame wars.

DOMINANTDAN#1FAN -

DeuceDroppin -

DOMINANTDAN#1FAN -

Lazer MMA -

JkdSam - 

Lazer MMA - 

Lazer MMA - 

80 percent of the UFC per multiple fighters (the last on being Stun Gun) are blasting inbetween fights with the real juice. Let's do the 100th thread on TRT though.

Sorry for repost, but so fuckin this!

Need to add though where TF is proof of TRT prowess? Page just lost. Hendo was 1-2 in his first three on TRT. Belfort won a fight with a kick he had already showed Bisping and Bisping still lacked the skill to stop (or moving into Hendo's strong hand) .

Time and again it's technique that wins fights, not TRT PERIOD.

Now my post above that I quoted is something to think about.

Technique huh? Techniques that require speed? Such as punches and kicks? Those kind of techniques? If you're talking grappling, then that's a whole other story, but if you're trying to say that increased muscle strength, endurance, and durability aren't a major factor in punches and kicks landing, then just please stop posting. Please?

Read this it should help you. A further clarification on how LACK of good technique loses fights not that TRT wins them.

It was not TRT that enabled Belfort to land the EXACT kick that hurt Bisping the round before, it was that fact Bisping was not skilled enough to look for it again and stop it (block).

Hendo could not run all over the cage hunting Bisping without TRT? It was TRT which made Bisping keep sliding to Hendo power hand side too?

Bisping is 100 percent fail in every very big fight he ever fought in because he was not good enough to win.

Prove the virtue of TRT in win/loss records of those using it and show technique was not the issue.

Prove the other argument that TRT isn't the factor. You can't prove either way. What you can say is that people like Hendo probably wouldn't be able to compete at the top level without it, that's a widely hekd perception.

You are all right but Lazer makes a much better point. At his age, NO Hendo likely could not compete at his current level without it. BUT...His current level (from an athletic standpoint) is still likely quite a bit less than what it was in his younger years. It's not putting him ahead of the curve, it's helping him to keep up with the curve.

Yes it's keeping him with the curve, but it's most likely providing him with a higher level of testosterone than the average man of his age. Hendo, as far as I'm aware, has been using TRT for a long time, so what you can probable assume is that the level of T in his body have remained at a constant for that period rather than diminishing naturally. The question is whether that is fair or not. If a TRT user is maintaining the levels of a younger man, that is obviously going to aid his recovery and his ability to train. This is an advantage not necessarily available to a healthy guy in his mid 30s for example.
Everyone is going to form their own opinion on the matter, it's just my belief that if you have such a medical issue then you shouldn't be competing in sports. I understand why people may disagree, but ailments and conditions rule people out of. jobs everyday and that's the way this one should be treated imo.

DogtownKai - Damn, I'd hate TRT with a passion if I were Bisping.

JkdSam -

DeuceDroppin -  Dear idiots,

You are all confusing "TRT" with "steroid abuse". TRT simply brings you back to normal T range when your bodies own T takes a shit. There are MANY reasons that this can happen, not only previous steroid abuse. TRT, is not going to give you superhuman abilities as most of you tards seem to think. If you are lucky, TRT will bring you back to being a smaller percentage of what you once were physically, with lots of shitty side effects to go along with it. Now steroid abuse is a different story. You get many of the same shitty side effects, but yes you are capable of taking your body to another level. As far as the drug testing goes, it is not any easier to get away with steroid abuse when you are on TRT. If anything it's tougher because you red flag yourself. If any of you think that recent Vitor is because of TRT you are fucking stupid. It is because of steroid abuse, and the same steroid abuse that every fighter is capable of, and that many take advantage of, between fights. Educate yourselves before you open your cock-holes.

Thanks for the understanding.

As an idiot, I feel it my obligation to inform you that you are wrong. A TRT exemption allows you to test up to 5-6 times the "normal" levels. These guys are not testing in the normal ranges.