HolyGround >> Year of JUBILEE

11/9/08 9:19 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
clean livin' 1 Member Since: 11/10/07 Posts: 1301	Looking in the Old Testament, and applying these principles to my life and world, is about forgiving debts. Could this be applied, in today's economic crisis, to effectively relieve pressure?

11/10/08 3:34 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
CJJScout 11 Member Since: 4/20/04 Posts: 3455	LOL! This is funny to me because I didn't know anything about this til college and one of my roommates was telling me about it. It was so funny the way he explained it and the context. Everytime I hear about it I see him jumping around and yelling "Jubilee" in a stupid voice. Good times. You have ignored this user.

11/19/08 5:21 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
ironmongoose 2 Member Since: 4/17/02 Posts: 5658	The concept of applying debt forgiveness in order to prevent families and generations from sliding into intractable poverty is a good one. Legislating it as being every seven or 49 years might not work for pluralistic societies who do not comprise a "nation of priests" the way God intended Israel to be. You have ignored this user.

11/20/08 5:13 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
clean livin' 1 Member Since: 11/10/07 Posts: 1379	Awesome answer, Mongoose. My Grandad practiced the cycling of fields every 7 yrs for conservation purposes. It worked for huge crop yields. Looking at this economic crisis, it very well may take some "forgiveness" to actually turn a page. You have ignored this user.

11/23/08 11:57 PM

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ironmongoose 2 Member Since: 4/17/02 Posts: 5663

Thx. If we as Christians honour God, we should consider the rationale behind that law, and be looking for ways to put the concept into practice in a way that works for our society. It'd wreak hell on our mutual funds, but would help establish a more compassionate, sustainable, and God-honouring world, which ultimately holds more hope for our future than how much we've got in the bank. You have ignored this user.

1/12/11 3:16 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
ironmongoose 2 Member Since: 4/17/02 Posts: 7929	By the way, there is no historical evidence that the Year of Jubilee was EVER put into practice by the nation of Israel, at any time. You have ignored this user.

1/13/11 10:20 AM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
CJJScout 11 Member Since: 4/20/04 Posts: 6688	ironmongoose - By the way, there is no historical evidence that the Year of Jubilee was EVER put into practice by the nation of Israel, at any time. Yeah, they didn't put a lot of things in practice. You have ignored this user.

1/13/11 3:11 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
reverend john 60 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 27412	I have a lot to say about this bit can't right now Rev You have ignored this user.

1/13/11 5:02 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
CJJScout 11 Member Since: 4/20/04 Posts: 6690	What? Don't keep us waiting! You have ignored this user.

1/13/11 6:01 PM

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LoveToChoke Member Since: 11/1/06 Posts: 792

This is a complex topic, but I think people need to take a measure of self-responsibility. You can't have the big house, new cars and plasma tv just because you want it. That doesn't excuse unscrupulous practices by loan managers however, and there needs to be more regulation (or at least an enforcement of existing regulations) to ensure this doesn't happen again. All that said, debt is not a bad thing. Debt allows people to own houses, build businesses etc. Our modern society would not be possible without debt. You have ignored this user.

1/14/11 12:05 AM

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reverend john 60 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 27414

sorry, I believe strongly in sabbath economics, including the fulfillment of God's economy in the words and teaching of Jesus. I will try and do some in depth talk about this as soon as possible, but I am really busy for the next few days, just finished two pipe commissions, finished a painting, and have to prepare and hang my daughters first solo art show. Then I have to finish my friends office remodel. rev You have ignored this user.

1/15/11 4:44 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
CJJScout 11 Member Since: 4/20/04 Posts: 6691	Just for the record rev, I don't approve of actual work and family taking precedent over HolyGround musings. You have ignored this user.

1/31/11 9:32 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
reverend john 60 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 27420	I am sorry I have fallen short will try and write some stuff up this week, had to fly to New York and drive home with Generick last weekend, still just catching up rev You have ignored this user.

4/18/11 5:54 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
CJJScout 11 Member Since: 4/20/04 Posts: 6879	Cleaning out old threads, wanted to get the rev's take on this. You have ignored this user.

4/18/11 8:05 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
reverend john 60 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 27506	Ok I will try and carve out some time tomorrow our church gathering is tonight Rev You have ignored this user.

4/20/11 9:25 AM

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reverend john 60 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 27510

The jubilee was part of an economy that God commanded Israel to live under. If you look at this economic plan, it is quite different from capitalism. It is also quite different from modern socialist or communist ideologies as well. My friend and mentor Ched Myers calls it, Sabbath economics. The jubilee, is part of this system. In fact, it could be seen as the pinnacle of this system. Sabbath economics, far from being "old testament law" become the vibrant heart of a new kind of life, within the kingdom of God. Jesus announces his ministry with the declaration that now is the "acceptable year of the Lord" or the "year of the Lord's favor" Now, if you just take that as, a generic old testament quote saying "woo hoo the messiah is here" you miss the deeper more "jewish" meanings implied in this text. Jesus is in fact calling upon the tradition of the jubilee. The jubilee was, the year of the Lords favor. And we then see the illustration of what that year means, the captives are set free, the poor are exalted etc. Jesus is saying either one of two things, "a new jubilee is starting here and now" or even more profoundly, "I am the personification of the jubilee, and it is come in me here and now" more later rev You have ignored this user.

4/20/11 9:44 AM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
CJJScout 11 Member Since: 4/20/04 Posts: 6883	Good stuff, keep it coming. You have ignored this user.

4/20/11 9:16 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Ridgeback Member Since: 7/3/07 Posts: 22981	Obama kind of practiced jubilee economics with banks and corporations.  You have ignored this user.

4/20/11 11:53 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
reverend john 60 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 27515	Actually he practiced the reverse rev You have ignored this user.

4/21/11 12:39 AM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
Ridgeback Member Since: 7/3/07 Posts: 22986	I know. I was being snarky since it is obvious he is a whore for the wealthy.  People don't get elected to positions of power without being bought and paid for.   You have ignored this user.

4/21/11 3:11 AM

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LoveToChoke Member Since: 11/1/06 Posts: 970

Ridgeback, Whether he is or not (I don't think he is since he tried to raise taxes on the rich) it makes no difference since he has to work in a system where the wealthy and corporations have far too much influence, and citizens cannot really compete. Apart from religious groups the only other organisations that supported the rights of average workers are unions - and look how much they are demonized. You have ignored this user.

4/21/11 9:25 AM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
reverend john 60 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 27518	I think Obama is just like anyone else who is in high goverment, corrupted. However, I do not believe his reasons for bailing out the banks were because he is a whore to the rich, the wall street bastards are not the ones that supported him rev You have ignored this user.

4/21/11 12:40 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
inlikeflynn 1 Member Since: 9/11/06 Posts: 538	TARP was started under the Bush admin. That being said, my general feeling regarding Obama (whom I voted for) is "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". You have ignored this user.

4/21/11 2:19 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
CJJScout 11 Member Since: 4/20/04 Posts: 6890	How did this take a political turn? You have ignored this user.

4/21/11 4:22 PM	Ignore | Quote | Edit | Warn Admin | Vote Down | Vote Up | Delete Post
reverend john 60 Member Since: 1/1/01 Posts: 27519	Economics are political But I will be back with more probably on Sunday Rev You have ignored this user.

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