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Will bjj ever be in the olympics?


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From: pigpen 14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/24/08 10:49 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 11731
 
personally I don't know why it isn't

wrestling and judo are, and it's the pinnacle of each sport to go gold

why is bjj not in the olympics?

From: 12 189 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/24/08 10:52 PM
Member Since: 9/12/04
Posts: 3634
 
bjj no,submission wrestling will get a shot .

From: DaddyO4 72 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/24/08 10:54 PM
Member Since: 6/4/06
Posts: 1161
 
No.There has been a push for years to get rid of wrestling.As you know wrestling is one of the sports in the first Olympic Games.I was told last year by one of the Olympic Greco coaches that he is sure that greco's days are numbered as an Olympic sport.The # of weight classes have been cut over the years already.Sad.

From: buffaloblue Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/24/08 10:55 PM
Member Since: 1/11/07
Posts: 2
 
Subgrappling imo will eventually get a shot.

I think if Brazil gets the games in 2016 that there may be a large push for it.

From: eljamaiquino Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/24/08 11:00 PM
Member Since: 4/2/08
Posts: 300
 
No way, they already have Judo which is way more viewer friendly, and has almost the exact same techniques (minus leg locks).

From: Kneeblock 157 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/24/08 11:40 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 11758
 
 One of the reasons for downsizing in wrestling is lack of gender parity, but that problem doesn't really exist in BJJ and sub grappling. 

When Judo and wrestling are finally done away with in the Olympics, all the athletes will switch over to sub grappling which will (with the pressure of a certain oil rich Shiek) become the primary ground sport.  I mean really, it seems inevitable.

From: hiptosser Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/24/08 11:59 PM
Member Since: 9/19/07
Posts: 654
 
Train Judo in 5..4..3..2..

From: Stupidnewbie 219 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 12:04 AM
Member Since: 3/16/06
Posts: 2282
 
Does anyone remember when they had the 108lb class for Greco? Shredded little 4' Iranian guys that were FAST AS HELL.

From: Bemin 1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 12:09 AM
Member Since: 4/19/08
Posts: 91
 
 Hey, give the folks over at the IOC a little more credit.  They pay attention to what those 18-34 year olds are watching, otherwise Coke and McDonalds wouldn't be nearly as interested as they are in spending a couple of billion on Rites.  BJJ maybe not, but I think submission wrestling could rear its head soon, traditional wrestling is in trouble, even though it is probably the oldest sport in the world.  Submission wrestling on the other had has no where to go but up.  It adds the "IT" factor for the Olympics with its association to MMA (which I hope will never make it to the Olympics as it would have to be made so "Safe" that it wouldn't be the same sport.)

I could also see many of the school programs across North America starting to drop traditional Greco and Freestyle and going into Submission wrestling as MMA continues to gain popularity.

From: FERA BRABA 239 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 12:12 AM
Member Since: 10/23/04
Posts: 16594
 
To be an Olympic sport there are many standards that have to be met. One is that there has to be a certain number of countries that have legitimate sanctioning bodies for the given sport and a certain number of registered athtletes that participate in their sanctioned events. Two, each country has to have its own Olympic committee that governs the given sport.

BJJ is doing great but world wide it has a long, long way to go before it will meet these standards of committess and athletes. Not too mention that each country would need to have a specific amount of black belts, possibly brown, to be able to compete and fill the recommended requirements for an Olympic qualifying event. Meaning, to have an Olympic trial there has to be enough black belts, possibly brown, to be able to set up such an event. Most countries are far away from these kinds of numbers.

From: ClayK Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 1:21 AM
Member Since: 7/25/07
Posts: 717
 
^ Benny just gave us an earful of Olympic caliber education.

From: Taz Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 3:41 AM
Member Since: 10/12/07
Posts: 135
 
i hope they add grappling someday,
they just added it last year to FILA world championships, which has always been worlds for wrestling

From: ninjaboy562 11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 4:20 AM
Member Since: 5/16/06
Posts: 4671
 
Its not WW yet, TKD, judo and wrestling is...

From: evomma Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 4:41 AM
Evolution Combat Club, el presidente
Member Since: 3/6/04
Posts: 882
 
 if BJJ became an olympic sport it would have to be called something else... a sport can not be an olympic event if it contains a reference to a particular country, eg: muay thai, or brazilian jiu jitsu...submission wrestling or kick boxing would be ok....

From: LeroyJ Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 5:31 AM
Member Since: 10/2/03
Posts: 543
 
BJJ and sub wrestling don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of making the olympics in the next 20 years.

For starters, there is no worldwide governing body for either sports right now. FIFA just started the sub wrestling thing as an experiment last year, and that's the closest thing to anything worldwide. No matter how many athletes you have participating, if there's no organization that governs them all, the IOC won't even look at it as a possibility.

Second, a Summer Olympic host country really needs to sponsor the sport as an exhibition during their games like the US did with Beach Volleyball in Atlanta 96, and Japan did with Judo in 64. London 2012 has already submitted their list of requests for their games, so that option is out. The next summer games in 2016 will happen in Chicago, Madrid, Rio or (I forget what the 4th in the short list is.) If Rio wins, BJJ may have a shot as an exhibition, but I doubt it due to the lack of a global Governing Body. BJJ or Sub Wrestling are not even on the list for consideration with the USOC (I know this for a fact), or the Spanish Olympic Committee.

Thirdly, and I've said this several times before on these boards, both sports are considered "Vertical" sports in the sporting world. Vertical meaning, that the only real fan base or draw comes from people directly connected to the sport through participation or a personal connection to the athletes. There is almost zero draw from the general public. Until this changes, neither sport even has a whisper of a chance for consideration.

I know this from first hand experience, as I work in the Olympics industry for my career. I love BJJ, sub wrestling and Judo, and have done these sports for most of my life, so I wish we had a better chance of moving the sport into the Games. Believe me, I'm out pushing and advocating constantly for people to appreciate wrestling and Judo in the Olympic movement.

The IJF has done a great job of spreading Judo to global participation and prominence with one set of rules. They are pretty safe for now.

FIFA is in a bit more trouble right now because Greco has a target on their back. Hopefully the new rule changes and clinch scenarios will liven up the spectator aspects of the sport. If they don't improve their viewership, and level of interest in the sport, it will get replaced by competitive skateboarding or something like that.

From: ChrisBJJ 22 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 7:06 AM
Member Since: 6/23/07
Posts: 163
 
not sure if you guys saw this, article from ESPN about the same thing

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/columns/story?id=3438005

From: gorillagrappling Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 8:22 AM
Member Since: 7/20/07
Posts: 3919
 
I would like to say that wrestling is not going anywhere. BJJ is "governed" by crooked ass Brazilians and will never be even considered an "organized" sport, mostly because it is not organized, much less considered for a spot in the Olympics.

From: xkmasada 1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 8:32 AM
Member Since: 2/2/08
Posts: 189
 
evomma - if BJJ became an olympic sport it would have to be called something else... a sport can not be an olympic event if it contains a reference to a particular country, eg: muay thai, or brazilian jiu jitsu...submission wrestling or kick boxing would be ok....


And what about Greco-Roman wrestling?

From: xkmasada 1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 8:35 AM
Member Since: 2/2/08
Posts: 190
 
In short, we need more BJJ brown/black belts.

And not just in Japan, the US, and Brazil, but in dozens of other countries throughout the world.

We need to see the national BJJ bodies of those dozens of countries cooperate together in establishing strong a world-wide governing body.

And then we need to see the games happen in Brazil.

From: JSho 333 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 8:37 AM
Edited: 03/12/11 5:01 PM
Member Since: 9/19/03
Posts: 3295
 
Bit of a frat but here goes with something i wrote on another forum some time ago looking in some detail about how sports are assessed by the relevant olympic committe and then my thoughts on why that precludes BJJ and Sub Grappling. Sorry about the formatting. Check out the document in the 1st link as well, is the report from the last Olympiad.



How do the IOC/OPC assess sports?


The Olympic Programme Commission, in their report to the 117th IOC Session stated that they had developed a set of 33 criteria to be used in assessing the strengths and weaknesses of each potential/current Olympic sport and the 'value' that each sport adds to the Olympic Programme. (you can read the methodology and the assessments of all Olympic sports in the link above, pretty interesting reading).

The criteria break down into the following categories:



  • History and Tradition

  • Universality

  • Popularity

  • Image and Environment

  • Athlete Welfare

  • Development and Costs.




Each of these areas then has objectively analysed criteria.



 



History and Tradition


Establishment



  • Date of establishment of the International Federation (IF)


Olympic Games



  • Introduction to the Olympic Programme

  • Number of times on the Olympic Programme (Benchmark "Strong tradition" = 20 participations and more)


World Championships



  • Date of 1st World Championships

  • Number of World Championships held to date

  • Frequency of World Championships


Other Multi-sports Games



  • Is sport on the programme of the last All African Games, Pan-American Games, Asian Games, Commonwealth Games or Universiade?)


Recognised IFs - World Games



  • Number of times on the World Games programme

     



Universality


MEMBER NATIONAL FEDERATIONS



  • Number of Member National Federations

  • Number of Member National Federations compared to maximum number of NOCs (brackets)


ACTIVE MEMBER NATIONAL FEDERATIONS



  • Percentage of National Federations that organised national championships in 2003-2004

  • Percentage of National Federations that took part in qualifying events for the Athens 2004 Olympic Games

  • Percentage of National Federations that took part in the last IF Continental Championships

  • Recognised IFs - Percentage of National Federations that tookpart in qualifying events for the World Games 2001


GLOBAL SPREAD OF EXCELLENCE



  • Number of medals awarded at the Athens 2004 Olympic Games

  • Number of NOCs that won medals at the Athens 2004 OlympicGames

  • Continental distribution of medals won at the Athens 2004 Olympic Games



     



Popularity


PARTICIPATION OF BEST ATHLETES IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES



  • Extent to which best athletes would compete


TICKET SALES AND ATTENDANCE

 



  • Average percentage of the total of number tickets available sold at Sydney 2000 Olympic Games and Athens 2004 Olympic Games

     


MEDIA ACCREDITATION REQUESTS

 



  • Average number of media accreditation requests at the last two World Championships

     


TELEVISION COVERAGE

Olympic Games

 



  • Average number of hours of television coverage per day of competition during the Athens 2004 Olympic Games

  • Average prime time viewers hours per day of competition during the Athens 2004 Olympic Games


World Championships

 



  • Number of countries where the last two World Championships were broadcast

  • Number of countries that paid for TV rights for the last two World Championships

  • Income from the sale of TV rights for the World Championships

     


PRESS COVERAGE

 



  • Total number of articles from 30 July to 12 September 2004

  • Average number of articles per publication from 30 July to 12 September 2004

     


NEW MEDIA PENETRATION

 



  • Average daily number of visits to IF's official website in 2003

  • Average daily number of visits to IF's official website during the last World Championships

  • Number of visits to the sport page of the IOC website (1 January 2004 – 11 February 2005)

     


MAJOR SPONSORS

 



  • Five major sponsors of the IF and kind of benefits provided

 

From: JSho 333 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 8:37 AM
Edited: 06/25/08 8:43 AM
Member Since: 9/19/03
Posts: 3296
 
Image and Environment

GENDER EQUITY

  • In the sport Percentage of Member National Federations (corresponding to the number of National Federations affiliated to the IF)that took part in qualifying events for the Athens 2004 Olympic Games: comparison of female VS male participation
  • Recognised IFs - Percentage of Member National Federations (corresponding to the number of National Federations affiliated to the IF) that took part in qualifying events for the World Games 2001: comparison of female VS male participation
  • In the IF governing bodies Composition of Executive Board (or equivalent)

TRANSPARENCY AND FAIRNESS ON THE FIELD OF PLAY

  • Impact of judging on the result of the sport’s competition
  • Judging/refereeing system and steps taken to train,certificate, select and evaluate judges and referees

INCREASING APPEAL OF THE SPORT

  • Steps taken by the IF with a view to presenting its sport in the most interesting and attractive manner

ENVIRONMENT

  • Existence of an IF’s environmental programme and action plans
  • Impact of the sport on the environment

Athlete Welfare

ATHLETE REPRESENTATION Role of athletes in the IF’s global decision-making process,in particular with respect to its Athletes’ Commission ANTI-DOPING

  • Number of out-of-competition tests 2002 and 2003 

Development

DEVELOPMENT OF THE IF Strategic planning

  • Existence of a four-year strategic planning process and details

Finance

  • Share of the Federation’s income from Olympic revenues (2000-2003)
  • Share of the Federation’s income generated by marketing and broadcasting (2000-2003)
  • Income from the sale of TV rights for the World Championships 2000-2003

DEVELOPMENT OF THE SPORT

  • Summary of the three main development programmes run by the IF between 2001 and 2004
  • Summary of the financial distribution system used by the IF to support its national federations and continental associations

Costs

VENUES COSTS AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES

  • Costs for venue to stage event
  • Technology requirements at competition venues
  • Television production cost
     

Sports 'recognised' by the IOC

Some sports and disciplines are not part of the current Olympic program, but are recognized by the IOC. Their respective International Sport Federations are responsible for ensuring that the sport's activities follow the Olympic Charter.

A recognized sport may be added to the Olympic program in future Games, by recommendation of the IOC Olympic Programme Commission and a vote by IOC members. The IOC voted on July 11, 2005 to remove baseball and softball from the Olympic program for 2012 (reaffirmed by vote on February 9, 2006 ) but also rejected their replacement with karate and squash (selected from a list that also included golf, roller sports and rugby sevens).

Recognised sports include Sumo, Golf, Karate and Polo.
 

The World Games

The World Games, first held in 1981, are an international multi-sport event, meant for sports that are not contested in the Olympic Games. The World Games are organised and governed by the International World Games Association (IWGA), under the patronage of the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

Some of the sports that were on the program of the World Games eventually made it as Olympic sports (such as triathlon) or have been Olympic sports in the past (like tug of war). Participation in past World Games is included in the evaluation criteria used to select new Olympic sports adopted by the IOC on August 12, 2004. However, with the current position of the IOC to limit the Olympic Games to 10,500 participants, it is unlikely than many of the World Games sports will be elevated to the Olympic sports. 


From: JSho 333 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 8:38 AM
Edited: 06/25/08 8:42 AM
Member Since: 9/19/03
Posts: 3297
 

Conclusions

Ok then, nice facts and figures, you might be saying but why won't BJJ or Submission Wrestling ever make it to the Olympics? it is not all bad news, there are some areas where BJJ/Submission Wrestling would score highly in the assessment:

- Best Athletes would compete in the Olympics
- Established World, Brazilian, Pan-American, Pan-Pacific, European, African and Asian Championships (in addition to many smaller tournaments)
- Low Operational Costs
- Low Venue Costs
- Low impact of sport on environment
- Increasing popularity of sport

However there are many areas where the sport(s) would score very poorly and this significantly outweight the positives above:

Not a global sport/Not a well subscribed sport
Outside of Brazil and the United States, although there are thriving BJJ and Sub Wrestling scenes in many countries, the sport is very underdeveloped and the disparity between number of judoka and number of Jitsuka is huge.

Limited media appearances
BJJ and Submission Wrestling appearances are limited to broadcasts over the internet or on small channels such a PremiereCombate in Brazil. There are few mainstream media appearances.

Total Domination of the sport by 1 country
If BJJ or Sub Wrestling were Olympic sports, Brazil would win ever medal in every category (the only potential exception to this would be in the Women's dvision). The depth of class and skill in Brazil at all weight categories far exceeds that of its nearest competitor, the United States and to date only 2 non-Brazilians have ever won a Black Belt Adult title at the Mundials

No Anti-Doping policy
Neither the CBJJ, CBJJE, CBJJO nor the ADCC has a drug-testing policy in place.

High impact of judging on the outcome of a match
The assessment of point scoring moves is quite subjective and can significantly affect the outcome of a match.

Judging/Refereeing system has a poor reputation (undergoing refinement at the moment)
Although the CBJJ are planning to introduce mat judges in addition to the actual refereee (as a result of controversial wins for Jacare over Roger gracie in the 2004 and 2005 CBJJ World Championships) the standard of refereeing even at the highest level of competition is very mixed and not of a consistently high standard. The CBJJ have made steps to amend this with 2 additional corner judges for the black belt quarter finals onwards at majopr tournaments.

No single governing body

There are 2 World Governing bodies for BJJ, which is against IOC Protocol and no genuine World Governing Body for Submission wrestling, however the advent of the World Grappling Committee under the auspices of FILA may change this.

Poor Gender Equity/Women's BJJ very underdeveloped in comparison
Although improvements have been made in the past few years, the number of elite women grapplers is very low in comparison to elite male grapplers.

Too similar to Wrestling/Judo
Wrestling itself struggles to keep 2 variants at the Olympics, it is unthinkable that there would be 3 (if Sub-Wrestling were introduced). BJJ would also be too similar to Judo in the minds of the general public.

Not Visually appealing enough/poor spectator sport
Although this is generally confined to the lower belts, BJJ and Submission Wrestling are not the most visually appealing fo sports (although this is generally a result of the individuals involved in any match).

Political pull of other Martial Arts

As mentioned above, it is unlikely that other Martial Arts already either in The Olympic Programme or 'Recognised' by the IOC would support the inclusion of another Martial Art.

 Sports Jiu Jitsu already recognised by IOC/World Games.
The Jiu Jitsu variant Sports Jiu-Jitsu (a cross between Judo and point-scoring Karate) is already recognised by the IOC and appears on the World Games Programme. It is unlikely that the IOC would countenance putting this SJJ on the IOC Programme, let alone recognise a relatively minor variant of it. 

From: Dojosensei 11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 8:54 AM
Member Since: 5/19/02
Posts: 11505
 
Back in 2000 they were pushing for Pankration and even had a world games for it. After that, it pretty much died off but they were trying to get it into the olympics at the time. Nothing on it in years now.

From: pigpen 14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/25/08 11:25 AM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 11744
 
 wow, a lot of crazy information on here!

thanks, guys!

From: Kneeblock 157 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 6/26/08 9:22 AM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 11787
 
 It's amazing to me that bobsledding, lugeing and other obscure winter sports meet this criteria and sub grappling does not.

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