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Jon Jones to Protest Loss


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From: ajl416az Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:04 PM
Member Since: 4/11/07
Posts: 2990
 
 lol 'tried' to arc them at the end?

when people land nutshots, they 'try' to hit the leg.  
still get a foul call when they miss

From: KRoyer Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:04 PM
Member Since: 4/27/03
Posts: 1920
 
magnetic:
great argument for your case...valid point. either way i don't believe this fight hurts jones's stock. he was awesome. he dominated hamill, never done before. he was a complete class act being interviewed after the fight, made me like him more. i'm sure this incident will be a lesson learned from jones. i look forward to seeing his next fight. i believe he's gonna be a top force in the near future.

From: mawashi_giri Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:09 PM
Member Since: 10/2/09
Posts: 167
 
saerbarnet - 
Crazy Zimmerman -  Kak, he threw an UNintentional elbow.  How is that cheating?


How in holy fuck was that UNINTENTIONAL? He didn't mean to hit Matt Hammill in the face with it from full mount? He didn't mean to lift his elbow in a 12-6 motion? He accidentally hit him more than once with the exact same shot?
The only excuse that might be true is that he didn't know and thus did it because of that, but that still would be a DQ cause it wasn't like it was a low kick attempt that accidentally hit someone in the balls or something, It was obvious he was going for the face with the elbows and it was obvious that it was 12-6 which is illegal.

Fact is, he broke the rules and he got DQ'd


And Magnetic:

"The rules state that an intentional foul and that the fighter cannot continue based on injury sustained from the foul. Hamill could not contnue due to a broken shoulder."

Not really what happened now is it? Watch the fight instead of basing it on the interview after it, Mazzagatti stopped the fight because Matt was non-responsive on the floor in a bloody heap after recieving the (illegal and obviously intentional) elbows to the face.


now YOU go watch the fight instead of basing it on whatever, and try to come up with a way to explain away the fact that Hammill's nose was broken and he was bleeding down into his eye sockets BEFORE the 12-6 elbows.

From: jkd4200 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:12 PM
Member Since: 3/6/07
Posts: 1690
 
this may have been said, but alot of you are missing the point.

Did Matt quit because of the elbow or his shoulder...

Jones had a point taken away by Maz... THEN Matt could not cont.

But it was not from the elbow... i agree with a NC, but technicaly Jones won the fight because Matt could not cont. from the shoulder, not the elbow.

am i wrong???

From: goku Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:13 PM
Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 6702
 
 he quit because of the shoulder...any fool knows this...people that are saying otherwise are either really really stupid, trying to rationalize a bad call, or are racists

From: Hardcharger Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:16 PM
Member Since: 3/13/02
Posts: 4446
 
39 - he tried to arc the elbows at the end, you can see on a replay, that's how they are unintentional, you bitches



I don't disagree. Saying that you think it was unintentional doesn't mean you're arguing that it shouldn't be called a foul. The result can make it a foul, regardless of the intent. Jones could've been trying to throw 11-5 elbows, and they ended up being close enought to 12-6 for Maz to call a foul.

From: shb 3 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:17 PM
Member Since: 1/25/07
Posts: 338
 
Crazy Zimmerman - 
shb - 
Crazy Zimmerman - 
shb - in the sherdog video interview, jones said he was at peace with the loss. he gave all these reasons for why the loss was a good thing, why everything happens for a reason, blah blah blah, all with this stupid satisfied grin on his face. why the change of heart? is it that jones isn't the gracious, mature, honest person that everyone inexplicably insists he is?

 No. It's because his management team is doing the right thing by him.  I should have used a different word than unhappy. He's ok either way, but his team will do what they need to do.
if he were actually at peace with it and really believed that everything happened for a reason, his team would be leaving it alone. your team doesn't protest the outcome of a fight if you're okay with it. are they doing it against his will? because if not, it's not just his team, it's him too.

 Do you think any fighter wants an L on his record?  I think just from reading this thread there seems to be enough contraversy to question the loss. 

Should Jones beat up his managers for trying to get the L removed?

I'm sure he will graciously accept any ruling.  Let's let the process decide.
jones said that the loss on his record would take the pressure off. was he lying? and he doesn't need to beat up his managers, all he would need to do is say "don't protest the loss" and they wouldn't do it. they work for him, not the other way around. to claim that he's opposed to his management's actions on his behalf is ridiculous.

also, there has already been a ruling issued, and jones has elected to not accept it graciously. he's choosing to complain about it, when instead he should be apologetic about intentionally fouling an opponent (repeated 12-6 elbows cannot be unintentional, that makes no sense). and whether or not he accepts the outcome of the protest is meaningless. there's nothing else he could do at that point, and he would have already tried to avoid the repercussions of cheating, so how would it be gracious? what would constitute not being gracious in that situation?

if you're going to challenge the ruling, at least be a man about it and stand behind your decision instead of pretending that your management is doing it against your will. that's about as clumsy and transparent a pr strategy as you could come up with, and it speaks volumes about jones's character, or lack thereof.

From: saerbarnet Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:20 PM
Member Since: 7/19/09
Posts: 394
 
mawashi_giri - 
saerbarnet - 
Crazy Zimmerman -  Kak, he threw an UNintentional elbow.  How is that cheating?


How in holy fuck was that UNINTENTIONAL? He didn't mean to hit Matt Hammill in the face with it from full mount? He didn't mean to lift his elbow in a 12-6 motion? He accidentally hit him more than once with the exact same shot?
The only excuse that might be true is that he didn't know and thus did it because of that, but that still would be a DQ cause it wasn't like it was a low kick attempt that accidentally hit someone in the balls or something, It was obvious he was going for the face with the elbows and it was obvious that it was 12-6 which is illegal.

Fact is, he broke the rules and he got DQ'd


And Magnetic:

"The rules state that an intentional foul and that the fighter cannot continue based on injury sustained from the foul. Hamill could not contnue due to a broken shoulder."

Not really what happened now is it? Watch the fight instead of basing it on the interview after it, Mazzagatti stopped the fight because Matt was non-responsive on the floor in a bloody heap after recieving the (illegal and obviously intentional) elbows to the face.


now YOU go watch the fight instead of basing it on whatever, and try to come up with a way to explain away the fact that Hammill's nose was broken and he was bleeding down into his eye sockets BEFORE the 12-6 elbows.


So what? Does that make the illegal elbows less illegal?

From: Gordo1581 469 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:23 PM
Member Since: 8/30/09
Posts: 188
 
joe bruce - 
Magnetic -  We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon's opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue.


??? He's deaf ,not his fault.

You're right, it's not Matt's fault.

It's the commission's fault for not having a translator of their own for situations like this. If you're going to a license a fighter who's deaf, you should be prepared to communicate with him.

Correct procedure would have been for Mazzagatti to stop the fight and call time (which he did)..... deduct a point for the illegal elbows (which he did)..... call in the doctor and NSAC appointed translator to assess Hamill's condition (did not happen).....

With the doctor and translator, perhaps the Hamill would have revealed his shoulder injury which would have then been determined to have been caused by a legal maneuver.


http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html:
13:46-24A.16 Injuries sustained during competition

(a) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of a legal maneuver is severe enough to terminate a bout, the injured contestant loses by technical knockout.

(b) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of an intentional foul is severe enough to terminate a bout, the contestant causing the injury loses by disqualification.

NSAC is claiming that (B) happened.

Jon Jones' management is saying that Mazzagatti/commission muffed-up the situation and possibly prevented (A) from happening.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:24 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 999
 
Crazy Zimmerman - 
Tom Lawlor - 
Crazy Zimmerman -  Kak, he threw an UNintentional elbow.  How is that cheating?


How was that UNintentional? Did he go to throw a punch and a pixie accidentally grabbed his hand, moved it upwards, then thrust his elbow down at Hamill 12-6?

I see the argument about it being a NC or W for Bones because of Hamill's shoulder....

but to say that it was an unintentional elbow is ridiculous

 What, you don't believe in pixies?


Could you answer this question plz Garv? How in the holy hell could you watch that fight and determine those elbows are unintentional? He did it 4-5 times consecutively...this isn't like an accidental eyepoke we are talking about here.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:26 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1000
 
Gordo1581 - 
joe bruce - 
Magnetic -  We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon's opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue.


??? He's deaf ,not his fault.

You're right, it's not Matt's fault.

It's the commission's fault for not having a translator of their own for situations like this. If you're going to a license a fighter who's deaf, you should be prepared to communicate with him.

Correct procedure would have been for Mazzagatti to stop the fight and call time (which he did)..... deduct a point for the illegal elbows (which he did)..... call in the doctor and NSAC appointed translator to assess Hamill's condition (did not happen).....

With the doctor and translator, perhaps the Hamill would have revealed his shoulder injury which would have then been determined to have been caused by a legal maneuver.


http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html:
13:46-24A.16 Injuries sustained during competition

(a) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of a legal maneuver is severe enough to terminate a bout, the injured contestant loses by technical knockout.

(b) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of an intentional foul is severe enough to terminate a bout, the contestant causing the injury loses by disqualification.

NSAC is claiming that (B) happened.

Jon Jones' management is saying that Mazzagatti/commission muffed-up the situation and possibly prevented (A) from happening.


Hamill's shoulder wasn't preventing him from defending until Bones landed 4-5 illegal elbows that knocked him stupid and opened up that cut and made it flow.

Love Jonny Bones, but he lost this fight by the letter of the law. Don't blame his management team one bit for exploring all avenues, especially since this takes away his zero in the L column...I'm pretty sure he will lose though.

From: KnuckleBumps 8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:28 PM
Member Since: 1/3/07
Posts: 2947
 
jjj2121 - 
Gordo1581 - 
joe bruce - 
Magnetic -  We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon's opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue.


??? He's deaf ,not his fault.

You're right, it's not Matt's fault.

It's the commission's fault for not having a translator of their own for situations like this. If you're going to a license a fighter who's deaf, you should be prepared to communicate with him.

Correct procedure would have been for Mazzagatti to stop the fight and call time (which he did)..... deduct a point for the illegal elbows (which he did)..... call in the doctor and NSAC appointed translator to assess Hamill's condition (did not happen).....

With the doctor and translator, perhaps the Hamill would have revealed his shoulder injury which would have then been determined to have been caused by a legal maneuver.


http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html:
13:46-24A.16 Injuries sustained during competition

(a) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of a legal maneuver is severe enough to terminate a bout, the injured contestant loses by technical knockout.

(b) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of an intentional foul is severe enough to terminate a bout, the contestant causing the injury loses by disqualification.

NSAC is claiming that (B) happened.

Jon Jones' management is saying that Mazzagatti/commission muffed-up the situation and possibly prevented (A) from happening.


Hamill's shoulder wasn't preventing him from defending until Bones landed 4-5 illegal elbows that knocked him stupid and opened up that cut and made it flow.

Love Jonny Bones, but he lost this fight by the letter of the law. Don't blame his management team one bit for exploring all avenues, especially since this takes away his zero in the L column...I'm pretty sure he will lose though.

From: da Vinci 81 185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:33 PM
Member Since: 11/24/07
Posts: 549
 
KnuckleBumps - 
jjj2121 - 
Gordo1581 - 
joe bruce - 
Magnetic -  We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon's opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue.


??? He's deaf ,not his fault.

You're right, it's not Matt's fault.

It's the commission's fault for not having a translator of their own for situations like this. If you're going to a license a fighter who's deaf, you should be prepared to communicate with him.

Correct procedure would have been for Mazzagatti to stop the fight and call time (which he did)..... deduct a point for the illegal elbows (which he did)..... call in the doctor and NSAC appointed translator to assess Hamill's condition (did not happen).....

With the doctor and translator, perhaps the Hamill would have revealed his shoulder injury which would have then been determined to have been caused by a legal maneuver.


http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html:
13:46-24A.16 Injuries sustained during competition

(a) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of a legal maneuver is severe enough to terminate a bout, the injured contestant loses by technical knockout.

(b) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of an intentional foul is severe enough to terminate a bout, the contestant causing the injury loses by disqualification.

NSAC is claiming that (B) happened.

Jon Jones' management is saying that Mazzagatti/commission muffed-up the situation and possibly prevented (A) from happening.


Hamill's shoulder wasn't preventing him from defending until Bones landed 4-5 illegal elbows that knocked him stupid and opened up that cut and made it flow.

Love Jonny Bones, but he lost this fight by the letter of the law. Don't blame his management team one bit for exploring all avenues, especially since this takes away his zero in the L column...I'm pretty sure he will lose though.

That's the exact oppossite of what Hammill said in the post-fight interview. He said he couldn't continue because of his shoulder, NOT the elbows.

From: goku Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:33 PM
Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 6705
 
 why are you quoting New Jersey law?

Here is the relevant Nevada law, which shows that the DQ was wrong:

"If the referee determines that a contest or exhibition may not continue because of an injury caused by an intentional foul, the unarmed combatant who committed the intentional foul loses by disqualification."

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:38 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1001
 
da Vinci 81 - 
KnuckleBumps - 
jjj2121 - 
Gordo1581 - 
joe bruce - 
Magnetic -  We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon's opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue.


??? He's deaf ,not his fault.

You're right, it's not Matt's fault.

It's the commission's fault for not having a translator of their own for situations like this. If you're going to a license a fighter who's deaf, you should be prepared to communicate with him.

Correct procedure would have been for Mazzagatti to stop the fight and call time (which he did)..... deduct a point for the illegal elbows (which he did)..... call in the doctor and NSAC appointed translator to assess Hamill's condition (did not happen).....

With the doctor and translator, perhaps the Hamill would have revealed his shoulder injury which would have then been determined to have been caused by a legal maneuver.


http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html:
13:46-24A.16 Injuries sustained during competition

(a) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of a legal maneuver is severe enough to terminate a bout, the injured contestant loses by technical knockout.

(b) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of an intentional foul is severe enough to terminate a bout, the contestant causing the injury loses by disqualification.

NSAC is claiming that (B) happened.

Jon Jones' management is saying that Mazzagatti/commission muffed-up the situation and possibly prevented (A) from happening.


Hamill's shoulder wasn't preventing him from defending until Bones landed 4-5 illegal elbows that knocked him stupid and opened up that cut and made it flow.

Love Jonny Bones, but he lost this fight by the letter of the law. Don't blame his management team one bit for exploring all avenues, especially since this takes away his zero in the L column...I'm pretty sure he will lose though.

That's the exact oppossite of what Hammill said in the post-fight interview. He said he couldn't continue because of his shoulder, NOT the elbows.


The fight was continuing with Hamill defending pretty effectively until the illegal blows. Then the illegal blows came, Mazz stopped it due to the illegal blows, and Hamill laid on the canvas not knowing where the hell he was. These are undisputed facts.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:43 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1002
 
joe bruce - Bones shouldve lost a point for the elbows, but won the fight due to the shoulder injury.

Period.


Fight continued with Hamill defending from mount for long while, until illegal blows knocked him senseless. Right call was made, whether he was injured or not.

Period.

From: da Vinci 81 185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:46 PM
Member Since: 11/24/07
Posts: 550
 
jjj2121 - 
da Vinci 81 - 
KnuckleBumps - 
jjj2121 - 
Gordo1581 - 
joe bruce - 
Magnetic -  We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon's opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue.


??? He's deaf ,not his fault.

You're right, it's not Matt's fault.

It's the commission's fault for not having a translator of their own for situations like this. If you're going to a license a fighter who's deaf, you should be prepared to communicate with him.

Correct procedure would have been for Mazzagatti to stop the fight and call time (which he did)..... deduct a point for the illegal elbows (which he did)..... call in the doctor and NSAC appointed translator to assess Hamill's condition (did not happen).....

With the doctor and translator, perhaps the Hamill would have revealed his shoulder injury which would have then been determined to have been caused by a legal maneuver.


http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html:
13:46-24A.16 Injuries sustained during competition

(a) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of a legal maneuver is severe enough to terminate a bout, the injured contestant loses by technical knockout.

(b) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of an intentional foul is severe enough to terminate a bout, the contestant causing the injury loses by disqualification.

NSAC is claiming that (B) happened.

Jon Jones' management is saying that Mazzagatti/commission muffed-up the situation and possibly prevented (A) from happening.


Hamill's shoulder wasn't preventing him from defending until Bones landed 4-5 illegal elbows that knocked him stupid and opened up that cut and made it flow.

Love Jonny Bones, but he lost this fight by the letter of the law. Don't blame his management team one bit for exploring all avenues, especially since this takes away his zero in the L column...I'm pretty sure he will lose though.

That's the exact oppossite of what Hammill said in the post-fight interview. He said he couldn't continue because of his shoulder, NOT the elbows.


The fight was continuing with Hamill defending pretty effectively until the illegal blows. Then the illegal blows came, Mazz stopped it due to the illegal blows, and Hamill laid on the canvas not knowing where the hell he was. These are undisputed facts.

Yeah, but the problem is Matt didn't fully understand what Mazz was asking him. He couldn't hear him, nor read his lips, so when Mazz first kneeled over him asking if Matt could continue, he made no response. Mazz interpreted this as Matt being hurt from the illegal elbows, when in fact he was quitting because of his shoulder. He simply lied on the canvas because he thought the fight was over and had no reason to get up right away.

From: da Vinci 81 185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:47 PM
Member Since: 11/24/07
Posts: 551
 
It's either that or you're claiming Hammill outright lied in his post-fight interview.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:48 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1003
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Matt was defending until the elbows knocked him stupid. The shoulder injury wasn't preventing an intelligent defense. The illegal elbows did. Bones loses.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:49 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1004
 
da Vinci 81 - It's either that or you're claiming Hammill outright lied in his post-fight interview.


Hamill said he was sorry and hurt his shoulder...he never said he couldn't continue due to a shoulder injury. For all you know, he's apologizing for a poor performance due to his injured wing.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:49 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1005
 
TheTFC - Someone needs to do a gif with point A where his elbow starts and point B where it lands. If it's one millimeter off of a 12-6 line, it's legal.


That is entirely incorrect.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:54 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1006
 
Pink Bunkadoo - 
Magnetic - 
Jon should have been deducted a point for the accidental illegal blow. Matt should have been treated like we treat the Brazilians and given 5 minutes to regroup and offered a translator so the ref could make the right call and understand Matt could not continue due to his shoulder injury not the blow.



is that one point for the 3 or 4 "accidental" blows or one point for all of them. They were far from accidental. It wasn't an inside leg kick that went astray, they were purposeful 12-6 elbows (notice plural).


Pointless to debate with him, he has a horse in the race...he can't state the truth. And LMAO at anyone who isn't biased calling the elbowS accidental.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:56 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1007
 
Any bluenamer please...there's more than 1 and it damn sure wasn't accidental...to say otherwise is an outright lie.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2yyqf6s.jpg

From: goku Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:57 PM
Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 6708
 
 "Matt was defending until the elbows knocked him stupid. The shoulder injury wasn't preventing an intelligent defense. The illegal elbows did. Bones loses."

WRONG.

if he wasnt intelligently defending himself mazagatti would have waived it off right there. he didnt. he only stopped it to deduct a point and ended the fighter because matt couldnt move because of this shoulder

TRY AGAIN

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 2:58 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1008
 
Here's a better one that shows repeated elbows.

http://i49.tinypic.com/34hgfah.jpg

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