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Jon Jones to Protest Loss


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From: BUFFGEO 1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:00 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 9750
 
goku -  "Matt was defending until the elbows knocked him stupid. The shoulder injury wasn't preventing an intelligent defense. The illegal elbows did."


actually, this is 100% correct.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:00 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1009
 
goku -  "Matt was defending until the elbows knocked him stupid. The shoulder injury wasn't preventing an intelligent defense. The illegal elbows did. Bones loses."

WRONG.

if he wasnt intelligently defending himself mazagatti would have waived it off right there. he didnt. he only stopped it to deduct a point and ended the fighter because matt couldnt move because of this shoulder

TRY AGAIN


He stopped to take a point because the fouls were illegal...when he saw Hamill on the ground knocked silly and clearly out of it, he stopped the fight.

Fact.

From: CruJones 9 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:03 PM
Edited: 12/08/09 3:03 PM
Member Since: 1/3/03
Posts: 2518
 
Magnetic - Well we are doing what we feel is right for Jones.
While I like Jones and agree he was dominating the fight, the FACT remains that HE DID CHEAT/STRIKE ILLEGALY according to the rules - if he/we/you like them or not. You are "doing what we feel is right for Jones"  because you're his management and suffered a loss that you should have won due to complete stupidity (or an in the heat of the moment illegal strikes - whatever) that cost you and your fighter a win and some money. Hope he get's some better management that represents him like a man who just says, shit happens, I fucked up, let's do this again. That said, Jones has a huge future!

Garv... seriously... for an interview? 

From: Altofsky 531 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:04 PM
Member Since: 12/17/06
Posts: 27878
 
Magnetic - Let's be clear, Jon is not "unhappy" he feels as all things happen for a reason. We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon's opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue.

The rules state that an intentional foul and that the fighter cannot continue based on injury sustained from the foul. Hamill could not contnue due to a broken shoulder.

Jon should have been deducted a point for the accidental illegal blow. Matt should have been treated like we treat the Brazilians and given 5 minutes to regroup and offered a translator so the ref could make the right call and understand Matt could not continue due to his shoulder injury not the blow.

This should be a NC for both fighters but not a loss. Hammil continued with an injured Shoulder and only complained once the action was stopped (warrior) but the fight was stopped based on the shoulder injury in our opinion.

 Hard to argue that.

From: Nalaan 11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:06 PM
Member Since: 4/14/09
Posts: 44
 
 

From: piratepirate 615 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:06 PM
Member Since: 4/15/09
Posts: 1239
 
humphrey sphinctermuscle - goooooood luck.

the commission just instituted the replay rule, and it was used for the first time in that match. there is no way in hell they'll discredit it, and overturn the dq.

not to mention it was the correct call.

never going to happen


+1

and kind of a douchebag move if you ask me,
acting cool with the loss after, and in interviews later that night, then deciding you're unhappy about it? lame.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:08 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1010
 
piratepirate - 
humphrey sphinctermuscle - goooooood luck.

the commission just instituted the replay rule, and it was used for the first time in that match. there is no way in hell they'll discredit it, and overturn the dq.

not to mention it was the correct call.

never going to happen


+1

and kind of a douchebag move if you ask me,
acting cool with the loss after, and in interviews later that night, then deciding you're unhappy about it? lame.


This isn't Bones calling the shots here, it's his management team.

From: Crazy Zimmerman 247 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:15 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 52890
 
 

Today I was on a conference call with Jon Jones's co-managers Ryan Ciotoli and Gary Marino.  We discussed the Matt Hamill fight and the stoppage.  They plan to appeal the ruling that gave Jones a DQ loss and will attempt to have the loss changed to a no-contest.

TheGARV.com:  Hey guys, thanks for the call.  First off, I just want to say that Jones looked great in there against Hamill.  Amazing performance.

Ryan Ciotoli:  Oh yeah.  He did the things he wanted to do.  I talked to Jon and he’s not disappointed by the performance, just the result.

TheGARV.com:  After the fight he said he accepted the ruling.  But now after reviewing the tapes, you feel he has a case for a no-contest?

Ryan Ciotoli: He doesn’t want to embarrass anyone but he feels that the fair ruling would be a no contest.   After the fight we watched the tapes again and there were a few things that stuck out in our minds that the ref did wrong. We'd  like to see the loss removed.

TheGARV.com: What should the ref have done differently?

Gary Marino: The ref said to Matt Hamill, "Are you done?" but Matt didn’t answer and he called the fight.   If he would have stood Matt up, cleaned the blood out of his eyes, and brought in his interpretor, he would have found out right there that Matt could not continue due to the shoulder injury.  The commissioner  said at the press conference that if an illegal blow is the cause of the end of the fight, then it has to be ruled a DQ.  But in reality, the illegal elbows did not end the fight, it was the shoulder injury.  If the ref had communicated better, he would have seen it was the shoulder not the nose.

Ryan Ciotoli: I also think that Matt felt he'd lost the fight and didn’t see Mazzagatti standing over him.   Mazzagatti should have cleaned off  Matt’s face and brought in the doctor to evaluate him.   Brazilians have translators;  Matt does as well.  But his interpretor was not used by the ref.  Jones did throw some questionable elbows.  Jon was looking for a different angle and it wasn’t intentional.  And if you look at the slow motion replay, it doesn’t look like 12 to 6, there was a curve to it.  Maybe 12 to 7 or 12 to 8.  Plus there was no warnings from the ref prior to the stoppage.

TheGARV.com:  So you feel the ref could have communicated better with Hamill?

Gary Marino: Absolutely.  He seemed to forget that he was dealing with a guy who was deaf.  If a guy gets a low blow would you stop it if he didn’t respond to a question because he was gagging from the pain?  No. You would communicate with him.  The ref should have checked his condition. There was a definite lack of communication. The illegal elbow did not contribute to the stoppage, it was the shoulder separation.  If he would have communicated properly with Hammill, he would have realized it was the shoulder.

TheGARV.com:  So you feel that the cut was not a significant factor in stopping the fight?

Ryan Ciotoli: If you look at the cut, it’s a good size but how many times have we seen a cut like that and they let the fight continue?

Gary Marino: Matt didn’t even complain about the cut.  He was talking about the shoulder.   Plus, there is issue of intelligently yourself.  Hamill took 80-something shots and just laid there covering up, so you make a case the fight should have been stopped then.

TheGARV.com:  Were you surprised that Mazzagatti did not stop the fight earlier? There were a lot of unanswered blows.

Gary Marino: Jones hit Hamill with eighty-something unanswered shots.  In Roy Nelson's fight with Kimbo,  Nelson’s corner started counting and the fight was stopped after twenty-something blows.  Jones landed eighty-something.

Ryan Ciotoli: That’s why Jones was looking at the ref.  He didn’t want to hurt Matt.  I think he was taken aback by the fact that Matt was not intelligently defending himself and yet the fight was not stopped.

Gary Marino: The illegal elbow opened the cut, but the cut was already there.  Also, he should have given Matt an opportunity to recover after the illegal blow.  At least check him out in the corner.

Ryan Ciotoli: Jon talked to Matt at the airport and Matt told him that he had no idea what was going on and thought he'd lost when the ref pulled jon off him.

TheGARV.com: Very interesting stuff, gentlemen.  Thank you.  I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out and will be speaking with you both again in a few days to follow up.


From: Altofsky 531 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:21 PM
Member Since: 12/17/06
Posts: 27883
 


Two illegal shots, not four. No warning. Immediate deduction and stoppage without proper communication.

The more I think about it, the more it becomes clear that the end of that fight was bullshit.

From: Jsteven 43 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:22 PM
Edited: 12/08/09 3:22 PM
Member Since: 7/24/09
Posts: 561
 
I can see both sides but either way you look at it, the fight was a complete one sided ass kicking that should have been stopped before the 12-6 elbows. Sucks for both fighters that it ended this way. By the rule it was def an illegal blow, but there is no arguing Hammill with his eyes closed could obviously not hear the ref talking to him and should have been cleaned up and given 5 minutes. Then we would have no argument whether he could not continue due to the shoulder or the cut, Matt mentioned the shoulder after but it is unclear whether he meant it was his only reason for not continuing. He seems to be a real stand up guy and im sure he will give his side of the story soon. IMO opinion its a stupid rule that should be revisited.

From: shb 5 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:24 PM
Member Since: 1/25/07
Posts: 339
 
Crazy Zimmerman -  Ryan Ciotoli: He doesn’t want to embarrass anyone but he feels that the fair ruling would be a no contest.
so jones is on board with this after all. who could have guessed?

From: Gordo1581 462 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:24 PM
Member Since: 8/30/09
Posts: 189
 
da Vinci 81 - (snip long pyramid quote)
Yeah, but the problem is Matt didn't fully understand what Mazz was asking him. He couldn't hear him, nor read his lips, so when Mazz first kneeled over him asking if Matt could continue, he made no response. Mazz interpreted this as Matt being hurt from the illegal elbows, when in fact he was quitting because of his shoulder. He simply lied on the canvas because he thought the fight was over and had no reason to get up right away.

That's exactly how I see it.

Mazzagatti didn't do his job correctly.

From: Crazy Zimmerman 247 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:26 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 52895
 
shb - 
Crazy Zimmerman -  Ryan Ciotoli: He doesn’t want to embarrass anyone but he feels that the fair ruling would be a no contest.
so jones is on board with this after all. who could have guessed?

 Have you ever been in the heat of battle and said something and then afterwards, when the adrenaline wears off and you have time to reflect and even watch videos of the fight, changed your mind?

It sounds like you're looking for a reason to trash the guy.  But this is the Net, you don't need a reason. 

From: orcus Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:30 PM
Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 49880
 
 I don't think he had a chance at FotN anyway, and didn't get a KO.

From: Zeke Dynasty 3 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 3:48 PM
Member Since: 6/22/09
Posts: 106
 
hey, you should ALWAYS fight a ticket, even if you were flying, and of course he should protest this if he feels like he wants to, or his management thinks it's a good idea. if he can get an NC, good for him. i as a fan personally was suprised when they Disqualified him, but thought it was a fair judgement, considering the blatancy of those illegal elbows. after reading the rules and having all these wonderful threads to peruse, it still holds up and makes me feel even stronger that the call was correct. but he needs to do what he needs to do - no harm there. it might be a little hipocritical after his gentlemanly acceptance speech, but hey, we're not all perfect. what you gonna do, right?

and as far as the discussion between if the fight was stopped due to the illegal blows or the arm, it's concrete and i would back up Mazztastic every time. it's funny how many times people can have the truth shown to them and they keep coming back with the same opinionated response. some people just can't quit.

From: aikmanr Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:06 PM
Member Since: 8/19/06
Posts: 980
 
Magnetic - Let's be clear, Jon is not "unhappy" he feels as all things happen for a reason. We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon's opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue.

The rules state that an intentional foul and that the fighter cannot continue based on injury sustained from the foul. Hamill could not contnue due to a broken shoulder.

Jon should have been deducted a point for the accidental illegal blow. Matt should have been treated like we treat the Brazilians and given 5 minutes to regroup and offered a translator so the ref could make the right call and understand Matt could not continue due to his shoulder injury not the blow.

This should be a NC for both fighters but not a loss. Hammil continued with an injured Shoulder and only complained once the action was stopped (warrior) but the fight was stopped based on the shoulder injury in our opinion.


This is a very good argument actually. I'm not a big fan of either fighter, but this is some sound logic.

From: likatiga 105 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:20 PM
Edited: 12/08/09 4:25 PM
Member Since: 9/15/07
Posts: 583
 
Those guys on the call were borderline lying.

After reviewing the tape they think they were more like 12/7 elbows? Rubbish.

80 unanswered shots, comparable to Roy Nelson having Kimbo in a Crucifix? Rubbish.

Jones needs to man up, this fight was stopped due to his illegal strikes. If he did not throw those strikes, the fight was seconds away from being stopped naturally and a win for him. He fucked this up and needs to accept responsibility for his actions. His management is steering him wrong here and judging by the shady comments made on the call, not with the best intentions.

From: MIKE CIESNOLEVICZ 33 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:22 PM
Member Since: 3/20/02
Posts: 4009
 
There goes him being at peace with his loss. lol

No for real, he deserved to be DQ'd in my eyes but no doubt his stock rose and he was destroying Hammil.

From: Leghound 211 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:28 PM
Member Since: 10/25/07
Posts: 2108
 
Magnetic - 
Jon should have been deducted a point for the accidental illegal blow.


Nice spin with the singular 'blow'

From: Gordo1581 462 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:32 PM
Edited: 12/08/09 4:47 PM
Member Since: 8/30/09
Posts: 190
 
February 16th 2006
Big John McCarthy explaining the 12-to-6 elbow
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=1588&zoneid=13
One of the most misunderstood and talked about rules in MMA centers around the use of elbows, specifically the point of the elbow. McCarthy explained, “Everyone thinks downward point of elbow strikes are not allowed, so you cannot hit with the point of the elbow. That’s not true. That’s not what it was for. That’s not what it meant. A fighter can strike with any part of his arm in the Unified Rules. It doesn’t matter if it’s the point of the elbow. It’s one type of elbow is not allowed. That is your hand going up to twelve o’clock and bringing it down to six o’clock, in that type of position. If I were fighting Frank Trigg and he went to take me down, and he does a double leg and pushes me up against the fence and I take my hand from the sky and bring it down onto the middle of his back, that is what is an illegal elbow. That’s it. Any elbow that’s got any kind of arch to it, any other kind of elbow, they’re all good.”

TheTFC - Someone needs to do a gif with point A where his elbow starts and point B where it lands. If it's one millimeter off of a 12-6 line, it's legal.

GIF of elbow with point A to point B arch:

http://i50.tinypic.com/315irkk.gif

From: Crazy Zimmerman 247 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:34 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 52903
 
 

From: AOmonsta 7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:38 PM
Member Since: 8/22/07
Posts: 1023
 
i'll always consider his loss the same way as rumble's loss to Burn's in their first fight.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:49 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1015
 
That's the definition of a 12-6 elbow Garv...arguing otherwise makes you sound foolish.

From: Boldar Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 4:52 PM
Member Since: 9/22/06
Posts: 3041
 
It's been said in numerous threads now and I'm glad JJ's management is stepping up.  At the very least a NC but in reality, had the ref communicated with Hammill, it would have been a TKO for JJ.

From: AmericanPsychoMMA Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:03 PM
Member Since: 2/8/09
Posts: 2624
 
 Stay classy Jon let it go.  Most people feel you won anyway.  If anything you'll come back stronger than before. 

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