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Jon Jones to Protest Loss


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From: goku Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:05 PM
Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 6712
 
 it should be a NC but those are definitely illegal elbows...no elbow will be perfectly perfectly 12 to 6

From: da Vinci 81 185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:37 PM
Member Since: 11/24/07
Posts: 555
 
AjaxxajA - Waste of time IMO. The AC won't overturn it and everyone knows that Jones proved himself the superior fighter that night.

Plus, it was the right call. Hypothetically, if Roy Nelson had run up and stomped Brandon Schaub's face after he dropped him with that right hand to the temple, he would have been DQ'd and rightly so. It would not have mattered that Nelson knocked out Schaub with a punch, he would have committed a foul before the fight was stopped and his opponent would not have been able to continue.

Same goes for Jones. I understand that Hammill dislocated/separated his shoulder and that's why he couldn't continue, but Jones blatantly fouled him before the fight was stopped. Legit DQ in my book.

No, not the same situation at all. Think of the Johnson/Koscheck fight if you want the same hypothetical situation.

Johnson illegally kneed kos when he was down, and had a point taken away. Now if Kos had said after that he twisted his ankle and was unable to continue, would it have been fair for the ref to change his mind and say Johnson's foul is now a DQ win for Kos because of the unrelated ankle injury??

From: Shaper108 7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:43 PM
Member Since: 9/5/05
Posts: 825
 
da Vinci 81 - 
AjaxxajA - Waste of time IMO. The AC won't overturn it and everyone knows that Jones proved himself the superior fighter that night.

Plus, it was the right call. Hypothetically, if Roy Nelson had run up and stomped Brandon Schaub's face after he dropped him with that right hand to the temple, he would have been DQ'd and rightly so. It would not have mattered that Nelson knocked out Schaub with a punch, he would have committed a foul before the fight was stopped and his opponent would not have been able to continue.

Same goes for Jones. I understand that Hammill dislocated/separated his shoulder and that's why he couldn't continue, but Jones blatantly fouled him before the fight was stopped. Legit DQ in my book.

No, not the same situation at all. Think of the Johnson/Koscheck fight if you want the same hypothetical situation.

Johnson illegally kneed kos when he was down, and had a point taken away. Now if Kos had said after that he twisted his ankle and was unable to continue, would it have been fair for the ref to change his mind and say Johnson's foul is now a DQ win for Kos because of the unrelated ankle injury??


Johnson's foul was ONE knee thrown during an explosive transition and exchange. It is very likely that he thought Kos was on his feet.

Jones' multiple elbows were not in a transition, nor was their any question on his opponents positioning. Jones had complete control over Hammil in mount, and had been looking for an opening.

He found that opening illegally and got DQ'ed for it.

From: Altofsky 912 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:45 PM
Member Since: 12/17/06
Posts: 27888
 
" Everyone knows Wes Sims destroyed Frank Mir and Kevin Burns destroyed Anthony Johnson. LOL. Fucking morons. "

LMAO @ using those comparisons as if they're in any way relevant.

The fact is, Jones WAS both destroying and tooling Hammill long before the illegal blows in question. He manhandled Matt and did literally everything he wanted to in that fight.

From: PTM2020 1362 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:46 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 75455
 
i liked the way he handled the situation in his interview in the cage.

not sure if this protest is the right move.

From: humphrey sphinctermuscle Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:48 PM
Member Since: 5/18/09
Posts: 2812
 
Zeke Dynasty - hey, you should ALWAYS fight a ticket, even if you were flying,

Thank god the rest of the country doesn't think as densely as this. the courts are already tied up with hundreds and thousands of stupid cases that should have just been handled by paying for the shit people did wrong.

You have no concept of money...at all Thankfully about 90% of the world isn't this dumb

From: da Vinci 81 185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:50 PM
Edited: 12/08/09 6:55 PM
Member Since: 11/24/07
Posts: 556
 
Yeah, but the issue is Mazz changed his mind from deducting a point to DQ'ing Jones when in reality the illegal blows were NOT why hammil couldn't continue. If they were, the DQ would be justified, but imo it should have been unrelated to the stoppge of the fight.

From: biggator 42 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:51 PM
Member Since: 4/22/09
Posts: 800
 
jjj2121 - 
da Vinci 81 - It's either that or you're claiming Hammill outright lied in his post-fight interview.


Hamill said he was sorry and hurt his shoulder...he never said he couldn't continue due to a shoulder injury. For all you know, he's apologizing for a poor performance due to his injured wing.
this he didnt say he quit bc of the arm. Maz called it bc of the fng blood
 

From: FingerorMoon 114 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:54 PM
Member Since: 10/27/03
Posts: 4199
 
Magnetic - Let's be clear, Jon is not "unhappy" he feels as all things happen for a reason.


Well yeah, the reason was he broke the rules.

The lesson learned he can take from it is - don't break the rules.

From: Crazy Zimmerman 398 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:54 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 52928
 
 I think a key point that a lot of people might be missing is the fact that the illegal blows are NOT what stopped the fight.  Hamill had a cut on the bridge of his nose.  Big deal.  It was the shoulder injury that would have prevented him from continuing.

Mazzagatti never learned that because he failed to communicate with the fighter.  Hamill thought the fight had been stopped and he lost.   The right move would be to break the fighters and evaluate Hamill in the corner.

A DQ is for when an illegal blow is the cause of the end of the fight.

The cut from the illegal blow is NOT what ended the fight.



From: da Vinci 81 185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 6:57 PM
Edited: 12/08/09 6:57 PM
Member Since: 11/24/07
Posts: 557
 
^^ Exactly. Matt thought he lost, and laid on the floor becaue his shoulder was fucked, but Mazz saw this as being hurt from the elbows and changed his mind from a point deduction to a DQ.

edit: referring to Zimmerman above

From: da Vinci 81 185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:00 PM
Member Since: 11/24/07
Posts: 558
 
AjaxxajA - 
da Vinci 81 - 
AjaxxajA - Waste of time IMO. The AC won't overturn it and everyone knows that Jones proved himself the superior fighter that night.

Plus, it was the right call. Hypothetically, if Roy Nelson had run up and stomped Brandon Schaub's face after he dropped him with that right hand to the temple, he would have been DQ'd and rightly so. It would not have mattered that Nelson knocked out Schaub with a punch, he would have committed a foul before the fight was stopped and his opponent would not have been able to continue.

Same goes for Jones. I understand that Hammill dislocated/separated his shoulder and that's why he couldn't continue, but Jones blatantly fouled him before the fight was stopped. Legit DQ in my book.

No, not the same situation at all. Think of the Johnson/Koscheck fight if you want the same hypothetical situation.

Johnson illegally kneed kos when he was down, and had a point taken away. Now if Kos had said after that he twisted his ankle and was unable to continue, would it have been fair for the ref to change his mind and say Johnson's foul is now a DQ win for Kos because of the unrelated ankle injury??


To my knowledge, Hammill didn't reveal his shoulder injury until the post-fight interview. In any case, the injury didn't cause him to tap out and the ref had no way of knowing it had happened. All Maz saw was Jones raining down 12-6 elbows on Hammill whose eyes were covered in blood. It's the right call.

The thing that's so frustrating about it is that Jones was like a cunthair away from the win when he started throwing the illegal shots. It was just a brainfart on his end and he paid the price.

Therein lies the problem. The ref never bothered to communicate with Hammil. Instead, he jumped to conclusions and assumed he was hurt from the elbows.

A doctor and interpreter should have been brought in so Matt knew what Mazz was asking him before the fight was called off.

From: goku Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:00 PM
Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 6713
 
 "To my knowledge, Hammill didn't reveal his shoulder injury until the post-fight interview."

he was holding his shoulder just as mazagatti was waiving it off

"In any case, the injury didn't cause him to tap out and the ref had no way of knowing it had happened. "

could have asked...which maz tried to do...to a deaf and blind fighter



From: Crazy Zimmerman 398 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:00 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 52930
 
" All Maz saw was Jones raining down 12-6 elbows on Hammill whose eyes were covered in blood."

Blood is not grounds to stop the fight.  Mazz did the right thing by taking the point away.  He should have stood Matt up and made an evaluation.  Instead he asked a deaf man if he was done.  That was a mistake.

From: smth416 13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:07 PM
Member Since: 11/11/09
Posts: 60
 
Jones would come off much better with the fans if he just takes this on the chin.

From: Crazy Zimmerman 398 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:08 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 52932
 
 Jones is not looking for the Win, nor is his management. They all believe a no contest is the appropriate ruling. I agree.

From: da Vinci 81 185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:14 PM
Member Since: 11/24/07
Posts: 559
 
AjaxxajA - Well, you all do make good points about the interpreter and the doctor. I was kind of surprised how quickly the decision was made myself.

I guess for me, the idea of giving Jones the win when he blatantly fouled him at the end of the fight just seems wrong. Maybe NC is the right call? Props to you guys, I think you've changed my mind...

Just a shitty situation all around, but hopefully if nothing else they can clarify this and set the correct precedent the next time something like this happens.

Yeah, I have no problem with a point taken off, that was deeserved. But Mazz calling the fight and changing his ruling based off misinformation is where the screw-up is for me, and that's why I think it should be a NC.

From: Malachy Friedman 22 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:19 PM
Member Since: 1/24/03
Posts: 8762
 
whether or not it was the elbows that cuased the injury or his shoulder

he could have seriously injured hammil for good

From: Humboldt JuiJitsu 88 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:22 PM
Member Since: 11/13/08
Posts: 2027
 
dun datta - jon jones made his bed, now he has to lay in it

laws are there for a reason, if you smoke pot or throw an illegal elbow, you need to accept consequences of your actions and take responsibility for your choices

I hope AC tells him to get lost
FTW!

and, fwiw, I actually started to like Jones during that fight, tattle tale (insert your own word here - I have a few choice ones personally) or not.  He is skilled no doubt, but his style was what had sold me.  He was also pretty damn humble in accepting the DQ.

Nothing tops Matt's warrior spirit, however.  That guy is the epitome of "tough". 
 

From: ttc Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:32 PM
Member Since: 9/17/07
Posts: 327
 
Well, there goes your credibility. Blood gushing cuts have stopped many a fight. Fighters, not able to see because of blood in their eyes stop fights. In one of your own posts you say Hammmil was blind from the blood in his eyes, that cut was caused by an illegal intentional foul. A fighter that says he cannot see is not allowed to continue.
In this case pools of blood were in hammils eyes.. he could not see. The evidence is right in front of your eyes watch the fight. Using, the words of a fighter confused by illegal shots is convenient when you were the one that threw the illegal shots.


Terrible(tm)

Crazy Zimmerman - " All Maz saw was Jones raining down 12-6 elbows on Hammill whose eyes were covered in blood."

Blood is not grounds to stop the fight.  Mazz did the right thing by taking the point away.  He should have stood Matt up and made an evaluation.  Instead he asked a deaf man if he was done.  That was a mistake.

From: Immaculata 71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:35 PM
Member Since: 12/14/03
Posts: 14752
 
He knew the rules and those are the breaks.

From: Malachy Friedman 22 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:45 PM
Member Since: 1/24/03
Posts: 8763
 
Crazy Zimmerman -  Jones is not looking for the Win, nor is his management. They all believe a no contest is the appropriate ruling. I agree.


CZ your close friends with his management so I dont think youre looking at it with unbiased eyes

From: dcase Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 7:45 PM
Member Since: 10/12/05
Posts: 1039
 
I gained a ton of respect for Jon Jones after his post fight interview.

Now, not so much.

From: mxmma Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 8:10 PM
Member Since: 11/19/09
Posts: 80
 
If anderson can deal with DQ than so can this guy, even fedor has a bs loss on his record as well. I think JJ will do good in the future but he just needs to suck this one up.

From: likatiga 149 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 12/8/09 9:00 PM
Edited: 12/08/09 9:02 PM
Member Since: 9/15/07
Posts: 584
 
Crazy Zimmerman -  Jones is not looking for the Win, nor is his management. They all believe a no contest is the appropriate ruling. I agree.


There's no way it can be proven conclusively what the outcome / decision would have been IF they had a Dr. and translator check with Hamill in the cage. That's what they will need to prove to the commission right?

There is certainly some confusion about whether it was the right call or not, but I think from a credibility & marketing standpoint, and with Jones' long term interests in mind, fighting this is not the best thing to do. Let it go, learn from the mistake made and move on.

Jones is an exciting prospect, who impressed a lot of people. Look forward to his next fight.

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