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The JUDGING GENIUS reflects on last night's UFC


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From: Douglas Crosby Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 11:15 AM
Member Since: 10/21/06
Posts: 581
 
I am driving home from last evening's proceedings in Fairfax, VA. I have some observations to share with you fans on the UG. Post your reflections, perceptions, ideas, etc. and I will be back TONIGHT....

DC/NYC

From: threestars35 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 11:57 AM
Member Since: 9/11/09
Posts: 1667
 
time to score the fights in it's entirety. 10 point must system is really old school and defective

From: Shanks V3.1 430 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 12:39 PM
Member Since: 12/25/05
Posts: 3279
 
subscribed.

I wanna hear this.

From: RickStorm 2835 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 12:42 PM
Member Since: 4/2/08
Posts: 6435
 
Douglas Crosby - I am driving home from last evening's proceedings in Fairfax, VA.

DC/NYC
I still havent figured out how to text,type while driving without crashing yet.....
 

From: 98lbweakling 110 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 12:53 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2774
 
Up for later

From: Vulva Fabulous 1282 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 1:13 PM
Member Since: 4/11/07
Posts: 13175
 

I had a really smart assed comment all typed out, but I just couldn't do it.  I'm not "that guy".  I did copy the comment as it was all typed out and depending where this thread goes..it might make an appearance.

Either way, I understand that judging is a tough and thankless job, but it's not as tough as it's appeared to be recently.


From: clattymine 845 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 1:24 PM
Member Since: 2/5/05
Posts: 8766
 
Doug Crosby is just one more reason why this site is AWESOME. Can't wait to hear what he has to say about last night!

From: tdunning 15 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 1:28 PM
Member Since: 6/22/07
Posts: 603
 
ttt for Doug's explanation

IMO, Round 1 was the most decisive round, Simpson clearly won round 3 but doing far less damage than round 1, and round 2 was very close.

Doug, how close was round 1 to a 10-8 round? Or round 2 to a 10-10 round? I can't seem to grasp each round getting the same weight in the final decision, when they were all very different in terms of decisiveness.

From: jjj2121 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 1:33 PM
Member Since: 6/16/09
Posts: 1448
 
^^

Simpson didn't barely steal the 3rd...he dominated it.

From: JohnnyM 1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 1:34 PM
Member Since: 1/14/09
Posts: 225
 
TTT

From: donkypunch55 273 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 1:38 PM
Member Since: 2/20/09
Posts: 846
 
Heartbroken Lee - Here's the simple fact of the matter:

Simpson was rewarded the EXACT SAME for barely stealing rounds 2 and 3 (even though he lost 2 in my opinion) as Lawlor was rewarded for DOMINATING the first round. That is bullshit and it's time to rectify the situation.


Damn. i dissagree with most of what you post Lee :) but your right on the money here! Any ideas on a better way? Pride scoring maybe?

From: Herb15E 62 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 1:48 PM
Member Since: 2/27/09
Posts: 502
 
Heartbroken Lee - Here's the simple fact of the matter:

Simpson was rewarded the EXACT SAME for barely stealing rounds 2 and 3 (even though he lost 2 in my opinion) as Lawlor was rewarded for DOMINATING the first round. That is bullshit and it's time to rectify the situation.

 smartest thing you have ever posted

From: donkypunch55 273 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 1:53 PM
Member Since: 2/20/09
Posts: 849
 
Yeah i'm with you, often times you can LOOK at a guy after a fight and by his appearence and body language you can tell who won... case in point, did you see Diaz's face when he heard one of the judges gave it to him? He was like "really!?" i've lost a couple of fights and beleve me, no one had to TELL me i lost...

From: LiftStrong 35 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:01 PM
Member Since: 10/15/08
Posts: 665
 
 I think the judges are somewhat handcuffed by the 10pt must system, but I have to agree that the Lawlor/Simpson was still wrong.  I scored it 10-8, 10-10, 9-10 for Lawlor.  If I had to decide either way on the 2nd round it would have favored Lawlor.

I personally belive that even if you are on the top, a fighter should not be given an advantage unless they are landing strikes or setting up position/subs.  Laying in someones guard should not be considered an advantage if you cannot land strikes.  To the same effect, I believe that Lawlor should be given points for control when he locks a guillotine and pulls guard, just the same as if someone scored a takedown and attempted a sub. 

The two most important criteria were ignored in the judging of this fight. 
1.  Damage - Lawlor scored more damage in one half of the first round than Simpson scored all fight
2.  Attempt to finish - Lawlor dominated the standup and was always striking or attempting subs (before he gassed).  Simpson only exchanged punches when he had to, and I dont even recall a submission attempt. 

From: Hate420 102 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:03 PM
Member Since: 11/20/05
Posts: 2953
 
Subbed

From: donkypunch55 273 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:04 PM
Member Since: 2/20/09
Posts: 852
 
Fuckin YES! Damage and attempt to finish! aren't these what a "Fight" is about? Go do ameture boxing or TKD if you want point sparing...

From: IP 70 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:05 PM
Member Since: 6/22/09
Posts: 1213
 
My thoughts:

-The 10 point must system can work for MMA...
-The system must be used more liberally, however.
-Along with that, the system needs to be tweaked slightly, establishing clearer MMA related guidelines on what constitutes 10-9, 10-8, 10-7, and even 10-10 if applicable.

Those changes will definitely affect fight outcomes, and may help to provide incentive for fighters to dominate each round.

From: donkypunch55 273 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:10 PM
Member Since: 2/20/09
Posts: 853
 
IP - My thoughts:

-The 10 point must system can work for MMA...
-The system must be used more liberally, however.
-Along with that, the system needs to be tweaked slightly, establishing clearer MMA related guidelines on what constitutes 10-9, 10-8, 10-7, and even 10-10 if applicable.

Those changes will definitely affect fight outcomes, and may help to provide incentive for fighters to dominate each round.


i gotcha, but if we're looking to give fighters incentive, why not have the chief component that's rewarded be aggression?
i also can't even imagine how to refine the 10 point system in a way that most watching could unanimously agree "oh yeah, 10-8 round, right there."
we usually can't agree on who won a close one, much less agree on the subtle nuance that would constitute a 10-8 rnd...

From: Hey Beer Man 24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:12 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 704
 
I watched the fight and thought round one could have been a 10-8 or even a 10-7. The second round could have gone for Lawlor. He had the guillotine at the very end. That could have swayed an otherwise very close round. Lawlor was trying to end the fight on several occasions. Simpson definitely won the 3rd but didn't dominate.

I can't wait to see both guys back in the octagon.

From: MMAfan26 Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:19 PM
Member Since: 4/23/08
Posts: 123
 
I'm not really of fan of Diaz or Lawlor, but both were robbed last night.

From: IP 70 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:33 PM
Member Since: 6/22/09
Posts: 1217
 
I agree that it's hard to get everyone to agree on current scoring, but a clear summarized definition alongside each score (10-10, 10-9, etc) would give everyone some guidelines to follow.

From: MrColdCock 76 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 2:44 PM
Member Since: 7/8/02
Posts: 1229
 
MrColdCock - Basically one judge had it for Lawlor:
10-9
10-9
9-10

That right there shows the problem with the judges. Does anyone really think round one and two were identical rounds? Even for the two who score it Simpson. Does the domination in round two match the domination in round one?

Round one should have been the clear definition of a 10-8 round.

Bisping/Hammel wasn't this bad because at least in that fight it was an interpretation of who is winning exchanges or value of GNP vs sub attempts or takedowns vs escapes.

Round was a beatdown and for the judges to not understand that and reflect it in the scoring is messed up.


I posted this in another thread, but was at the same time thinking "I wonder if Douglas Crosby was a judge in this fight, he seems to understand his MMA"

TTT for DC

From: NailedtotheSky 1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 3:12 PM
Member Since: 9/4/07
Posts: 2608
 
In my opinion the UFC needs more 10-8 rounds, seems unfair to me that a guy can dominate an entire round and get the same amount of points as if he'd out struck his opponent by one shot.

If you want fights to be more entertaining, I say implement more 10-8 rounds. This encourages a fighter to blow energy and take risks going for the finish knowing that even if he can't end the fight in that round he may go up 2 points in the score cards. This helps equalize the points often lost in the later rounds by running out of energy by the early aggressor.

From: Thumblock Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 3:38 PM
Member Since: 1/14/09
Posts: 645
 
I agree with victorpoprocka and LiftStrong on Lawlor-Simpson.

I do have a more general beef with the use of the 10-point must system. Officially, the fact that there is a 10-point scale per round is a good thing but the actual use of the system sucks. About 95% of rounds are 10-9, which defeats the whole freakin point of having 10 points in the first place.

How could round 1 not be 10-8 lawlor?  hell, I'd like to see 10-7s, 10-6s, etc - if you get totally dominated in a round you should have to come back and be totally dominant in another round to have a chance at a decision let alone a draw.

From: orcus Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 1/12/10 3:43 PM
Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 51300
 
 No 10-8s from any judge for that round is absolutely ridiculous. It could have been a 10-7.

I imagine almost everyone watching that fight was very surprised that Simpson survived that round. How on earth can it only be 10-9 when it's a miracle the guy wasn't finished?

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